Author Topic: Bringing back a banned cheer  (Read 12840 times)

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MOM21SON

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 06:33:50 PM »
Hmm!  I can see both sides to this one.  It seems reasonable to continue to use the cheer as it's unoffensive and separate from who the coach was as a person. 

But if the cheer brings back bad memories for people who hear it -- especially for the girls who were victimized or their parents -- then I think it's worth talking to the current head coach about it.  It may be too soon for the cheer to resurface, especially if the young ladies whose privacy was violated are on the team and hear it.  The cheer itself isn't offensive or upsetting, but for some people it's still associated with a pretty heinous act, and I think it's reasonable to find it upsetting in that sense.

The "main" girl is still very much involved and remains very upset, but quiet about it.

In that case I think if you're still involved with the team or friendly with the head coach, I'd give him a heads up about the problematic cheer.  She may not feel comfortable bringing it up herself.  Holding off on using the cheer for a few years won't hurt anyone, but continuing to use it may hurt the girl quite a bit.

If you're not involved at all anymore, it's a bit harder, so I'm curious to see what other posters say.   I'm not sure what I'd do in your shoes.  It seems like a "mind your own business" situation but...it wouldn't sit well with me if I suspected a young girl were upset.

I am no longer involved with the team but friends with the girl, her family and many others from the team.  I am on good terms with the head coach.

Personal FB.  I sure it will soon be posted to the teams page.  Anyone can post on it.

MyFamily

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2013, 06:36:43 PM »
Is the girl upset about what happened to her (which seems obvious to me) or is she upset about the use of the cheer?


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MOM21SON

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 06:49:28 PM »
Is the girl upset about what happened to her (which seems obvious to me) or is she upset about the use of the cheer?

Both.  His crime severely broke the team for quite awhile.  And now its like he is being made out to be some kind of hero.

jedikaiti

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 06:53:19 PM »
Yea, I think a few words with Head Coach are in order.
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Surianne

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 07:09:46 PM »
I am no longer involved with the team but friends with the girl, her family and many others from the team.  I am on good terms with the head coach.

Personal FB.  I sure it will soon be posted to the teams page.  Anyone can post on it.

In that case, it sounds as though the coach would welcome hearing from you.  I think it's worth a mention to the coach, without getting into a back-and-forth if s/he disagrees.  I'd leave any battle to the girl's family and other current team members if the coach isn't responsive -- it sounds like you're giving this a lot of thought and consideration so I don't think it will be a problem, just something small to note. 

If the girl herself told you anything specifically about her own feelings, check with her before passing that information on to the coach, in case she'd prefer to keep it private.   

kherbert05

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2013, 08:07:56 PM »
I think the head coach needs to get with the boys/males that were on the team at the time of the inappropriate behavior explain that the cheer is BANNED. If they use it, post it, teach it to younger players they are suspended for x games. 2nd violation means they are banned not just from playing but being at any team event. If this is a school team I would enforce the penalties for scrabble related harassment after 1 warning.


Any one around 10 - 13 who doesn't get why what the assistant coach did was a crime needs some serious conversations with an appropriate adult until they get it. To me that is a huge red flag (if they were much older than that I would keep them as far away from girls as I could. Those type of attitudes is why Steubenville type situations happen.
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GSNW

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 08:54:21 PM »
Any one around 10 - 13 who doesn't get why what the assistant coach did was a crime needs some serious conversations with an appropriate adult until they get it. To me that is a huge red flag (if they were much older than that I would keep them as far away from girls as I could. Those type of attitudes is why Steubenville type situations happen.

SO MUCH THIS!  The attitude of the older boys, combined with the feelings of the girl and the origin of the cheer, is what makes this not OK in my book.  This girl should be allowed to continue on as if this thing was not done to her, and if not hearing this cheer shouted by a group of guys that think she's overreacting helps, that is NOT an unreasonable request by any stretch. 

I agree that the head coach needs to make this crystal with the older boys ASAP, but I do fear that they will retaliate against the girl if they lose their beloved cheer/chant.  I guess that since OP doesn't have a true stake in this (aside from concern for a friend), her involvement should be an informational email/message to the coach and nothing further.

But I understand OP's level of concern.  What a sad situation.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2013, 11:27:56 PM »
Given the circumstances - especially that the main victim is still involved - bringing back the cheer is grossly insensitive, to say the least.

Someone should definitely talk to the head coach about this.

Queen of Clubs

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2013, 09:04:20 AM »
Any one around 10 - 13 who doesn't get why what the assistant coach did was a crime needs some serious conversations with an appropriate adult until they get it. To me that is a huge red flag (if they were much older than that I would keep them as far away from girls as I could. Those type of attitudes is why Steubenville type situations happen.

SO MUCH THIS!  The attitude of the older boys, combined with the feelings of the girl and the origin of the cheer, is what makes this not OK in my book.  This girl should be allowed to continue on as if this thing was not done to her, and if not hearing this cheer shouted by a group of guys that think she's overreacting helps, that is NOT an unreasonable request by any stretch. 

I agree that the head coach needs to make this crystal with the older boys ASAP, but I do fear that they will retaliate against the girl if they lose their beloved cheer/chant.  I guess that since OP doesn't have a true stake in this (aside from concern for a friend), her involvement should be an informational email/message to the coach and nothing further.

But I understand OP's level of concern.  What a sad situation.

I agree with both these posts.  OP, I think the head coach needs to sort this situation and quickly.

As for the mom who posted the video, maybe you could have a quiet word with her and let her know what happened?  I'd hope that would end any support she had for bringing back the chant.

TurtleDove

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2013, 09:51:06 AM »
I am a voice of dissent.  Unless I am missing something, there is nothing inherently offensive about the cheer.  What the old coach did was obviously wrong and he presumably has been or is being punished for it.  I don't think that it is necessary or even possible to prevent a team or school from using anything that coach touched - it doesn't make sense to me.  The cheer is just that - a cheer.  It isn't "turning the coach into some sort of hero."  It has nothing to do with the coach. That's how I see it, anyway.

Virg

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2013, 10:02:53 AM »
TurtleDove wrote:

"Unless I am missing something, there is nothing inherently offensive about the cheer."

Using the cheer is causing pain to someone who's still on the team  It's grossly insensitive to someone who's got a good reason not to want to hear it, and it's divisive.  Since it's a single cheer routine in what I assume is a large repertoire, I can't imagine why anyone would want to continue hurting a squadmate with it.  The fact that the boys who are teaching it to the squad consider what happened to be "no big deal" just adds to the hurt, and it's just so unnecessary.

"It has nothing to do with the coach."

I agree with this point, but as I said above, my reason for banning the cheer isn't that this coach made it up, it's that it's causing a current squad member unneeded grief.

Virg

TurtleDove

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2013, 10:09:54 AM »
I guess I see this as a slippery slope.  Various things trigger various people.  I think I've shared about how it would send me into panic soon after my husband killed himself to hear people talking about "hanging out" or asking me if I was free to "hang out."  Would it be fair to insist no one use that phrase ever because it caused me legitimate grief?  Well, no, because the word itself had nothing to do with why I was upset and it wouldn't be fair to expect everyone else to cater to me.  I know on this board various posters have their triggers for various reasons.  It would be impossible to know what specifically causes each person strife.  The girl could just as easily want to ban the school colors because the coach wore them every day, or want to ban locker rooms in general because they bring back bad memories. 

At the end of the day, if the girl herself wants to champion the cause of "banning" the cheer I think she can certainly try.  But I don't think it is the OP's place to do so.

Betelnut

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2013, 10:20:09 AM »
Who "banned" the cheer in the first place?  Who "unbanned" it?

If the "banning" were official, the "unbanning" should also be official and discussed.

If there was never discussion about the cheer, I don't see how it could be banned or unbanned.

It needs to be discussed and cleared up.
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TurtleDove

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2013, 10:34:12 AM »
Who "banned" the cheer in the first place?  Who "unbanned" it?

If the "banning" were official, the "unbanning" should also be official and discussed.

If there was never discussion about the cheer, I don't see how it could be banned or unbanned.

It needs to be discussed and cleared up.

Yes, this.  Since it seemed clear to me that there was no official ban, I am operating off that assumption. And unless the cheer was somthing like, "Coach Creepy is the best!  Let's spy on all the rest!" I cannot imagine banning a popular and innocuous cheer simply because a less than stellar person made it up.  Think of all the music and plays and movies and books and ____ we would have to ban!!!!!

shhh its me

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Re: Bringing back a banned cheer
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2013, 11:03:30 AM »
Firstly I would consider my feelings and the young ladies feelings just to be sure I wasn't replacing how I would feel with how she's feels.

I would show the coach the video. 

I would also talk to the mom who posted it. Unless you are 100% absolutely positive that she knows both the coaches history and the history of the cheer and towns reaction to the coaches actions.  I'm assuming she post the vid because her younger kids were being taught a cheer by some of the older boys involved in the activity. That she may not know her kids are being "mentored" by boys doing something this at best insensitive at worst harassing.  I would want to know I think you would want to know too, let her know.  I think of it the same way I would if someone didn't speak English and posted a vid of their kids being taught a song riff with innuendo by young men.   

I'm debating whether I would speak to the young men teaching the boys. The boys may be intensive or they may be intentionally inflicting emotionally harm. 


Turtel Dove.  Do you mean you don't understand why it would upset the girl or you don't think other people should stop using the cheer.


I think using the cheer still could be seen "solidarity" with the coach. 

We cant ban ever famous piece of work composed by a person who committed a terrible crime but I wouldn't use a piece of music by a singer/composer/song witter to be sung/shouted at one one of their victims by the crowd.