Author Topic: Navigating money issues with parents - long  (Read 7042 times)

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camlan

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2013, 09:18:42 AM »
Two thoughts.

It is the OP's parents choice to house and feed the grandparents without making them pay anything towards their room and board.

Yes, the OP is paying rent. And her father is calculating that rent into his income. But once the OP leaves, the expenses in the household will also drop. The OP won't be there to eat the food, or use the electricity or water. So she shouldn't feel guilty about leaving--yes, her parents will have less actual cash coming in, but their expenses should drop at the same time.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn

wolfie

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2013, 09:43:49 AM »
Two thoughts.

It is the OP's parents choice to house and feed the grandparents without making them pay anything towards their room and board.

Yes, the OP is paying rent. And her father is calculating that rent into his income. But once the OP leaves, the expenses in the household will also drop. The OP won't be there to eat the food, or use the electricity or water. So she shouldn't feel guilty about leaving--yes, her parents will have less actual cash coming in, but their expenses should drop at the same time.

they don't drop that much. I just divorced a few months ago and after the ex moved out my utilities dropped by about $50 a month. I am sure that her rent covers a lot more then her expenses.

Winterlight

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2013, 10:11:19 AM »
I think you need to start doing whatever it is you need to do to get enough $$ saved to move out of your parents' house, even if it's to a furnished room or a roommate situation.  Your father's (and mother's) expectations of your income making up for their bad planning is unreasonable.

This.

It sounds like you and your mom are footing the bill for your dad's inability/unwillingness to ask his parents to keep up their financial obligations instead of spending on toys or vacations.   That is so unfair to you, it's not even funny.  Start making plans for other living situations.  When they're concrete, give your parents a move out date, thank them for their help and then get out and start their own life.

Also this.

Make your plans, save your money and get out of there. And stop being the complaint sounding board.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
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camlan

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2013, 10:42:11 AM »
Two thoughts.

It is the OP's parents choice to house and feed the grandparents without making them pay anything towards their room and board.

Yes, the OP is paying rent. And her father is calculating that rent into his income. But once the OP leaves, the expenses in the household will also drop. The OP won't be there to eat the food, or use the electricity or water. So she shouldn't feel guilty about leaving--yes, her parents will have less actual cash coming in, but their expenses should drop at the same time.

they don't drop that much. I just divorced a few months ago and after the ex moved out my utilities dropped by about $50 a month. I am sure that her rent covers a lot more then her expenses.

Even for food? I'd expect the average adult to eat about $150-$200 worth of food a month, minimum, based on prices in my area.

Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn

wolfie

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2013, 11:04:53 AM »
Two thoughts.

It is the OP's parents choice to house and feed the grandparents without making them pay anything towards their room and board.

Yes, the OP is paying rent. And her father is calculating that rent into his income. But once the OP leaves, the expenses in the household will also drop. The OP won't be there to eat the food, or use the electricity or water. So she shouldn't feel guilty about leaving--yes, her parents will have less actual cash coming in, but their expenses should drop at the same time.

they don't drop that much. I just divorced a few months ago and after the ex moved out my utilities dropped by about $50 a month. I am sure that her rent covers a lot more then her expenses.

Even for food? I'd expect the average adult to eat about $150-$200 worth of food a month, minimum, based on prices in my area.

Food did drop a bunch, but then again my ex had very expensive tastes. But in a household of 5 people I wouldn't expect one person dropping out to make that much of a difference. I am assuming she is paying more then 250 in rent.

TootsNYC

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2013, 11:17:56 AM »
I found that our utilities did go up by about $100/month when my husband got laid off--because he was home. Before, we had huge chunks of each day (work time and nighttime) when no lights were on,  few appliances, etc.

The OP's family is home a lot--so their utilities won't go down by much.

Food should. But if the OP helps buy food separately, it won't.

DavidH

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2013, 12:18:43 PM »
I'll take your questions in order, but I think there are a couple of things happening. 

One discussion that you may want to have, separate from money and moving out is the relationship you have with your parents.  You might find it helpful to sit down with them and say that while it has been hard to get out of the parent-child relationship, you are living with them now as an adult and think it's time to redefine how you interact.  Things like bed time, being quizzed about where you are going, that are appropriate when you are growing up really aren't now.  On the other hand, it also means that you have to act more like an adult (and I have no idea whether you already do or not), but the point is that you need to make this a two way conversation and accept that they may have a related set of concerns.

With respect to your mother complaining about money, I think there are a number of choices.

One is to say, Mom, I'm sorry this is worrying you, but we've been over this again and again, and I don't really know what else to say...and then change the topic.

Another is to say, Mom, we've been over this a lot, why don't we sit down and plan out the options for making this work.  Then pull out a calculator and paper and actually write down expenses vs. income and where they can save.  Can they eat more economically, do they buy lunch or coffee out rather than cook at home, could they set the thermostat warmer in the summer and cooler in the winter, etc.   If she refuses to talk about the budget, then you can say, Mom, I know you're upset, but you don't seem to want to work on this with me, so I can't really offer anything else that might fix it. 

You could also say, Mom, I know this is really worrying you, and as you've said, you need to find more income.  I think we both know the options, and it's really between you and Dad which one you choose.  Try as I might, I can't come up with any other options for you. 

For the moving out vs. rent.  totally agree, it can't come out as if you don't move away, I'm moving out, since that will not go over well.  One option might be to sit down with them, not at a time when they are already talking about finances, and say Mom, Dad, now that I'm working, I think the next step in being an adult will be to live on my own.  I'm not quite ready yet, but have been thinking about this, and think that by September I will have the money saved to move out.  I don't want to leave you in the lurch, but I really need to do this as part of growing up.  At that point, if you're willing, maybe negotiate staying another month or not, but that's about it.  If they say, how will we survive, you can say, Mom, Dad, I know it will be a challenge, but I really need to do this and I wanted to bring this up now to give you time to prepare.  Don't offer suggestions about grandparents paying more, her taking a job, etc, just make it about you needing to move out.

cwm

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2013, 12:26:10 PM »
OP, I sympathize. I've been in a similar situation. I know how tough it can be.

See if there's anything extra you can do to make more money. It may not be easy to get a second job, but try to look into it. Cut out eating out, if you do. Try to drive less to save gas money. Try to buy cheaper groceries, or less groceries. If you're supplying your own entirely, that's quite possible.

What your parents are or aren't charging your grandparents for rent is none of your concern. It is their concern. Your budget is none of their concern. It is their concern. What is your concern is saving up enough money to move out of their house. They let you move back in, but you have been paying them rent and supplying groceries, you gave them access to your car. That is fair enough, there is no need for you to continue to support them further after you leave.

As far as moving somewhere else, when you move out, will you be able to keep your bed and bedroom furniture? I know when I left home, I kept my bed and dressers, my computer desk, and it all came with me. When I had to temporarily move back in, it was either in storage (the first time) or moved into my bedroom, but now that I'm out again, I stil have it. It made moving out much more affordable, I didn't have to get a bed, bedding, a dresser, or a bookshelf. It was all provided to me.

Look into roommate situations where you live. See if you can get in somewhere with a shared kitchen space for the same amount you're paying in rent now. Move in there as soon as you're actually able.

Remember, a lack of financial planning on your parents part does not contsitute an emergency on your part. Your sole concern is to get on stable footing yourself. When your mom comes to complain to you, look at her in the eyes and tell her that this subject is something you're no longer comfortable discussing. Repeat as necessary. Shut her down before she really gets started. She could be seeing you as an ally, someone on her side, simply because you listen to her so well. It's entirely likely that she might think you will back her against your dad when they get into another argument about it, and it sounds like that couldn't be further from the truth.

Good luck, OP. I wish you the best in getting out on your own.

jaxsue

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2013, 02:07:53 PM »
The OP might need up to 3x the first month's rent just to secure a place- some require first month, 1 month security deposit and possibly last month's depending on local laws all up front. For a $500/month apartment that's $1000-1500.

This. And the credit check that is common. Landlords look at every aspect of the prospective tenant.

Edited to add: Apt costs vary widely, of course. Where I live (near NYC), a $500 apt is called "section 8." A 1-2 bedroom, decent place will cost $1500 or more a month. Life ain't cheap here!  :-[
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 02:11:02 PM by jaxsue »

EllenS

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2013, 02:37:50 PM »
When people with bachelor's degrees are working part time in fast food because there is nothing else they can get, not even sales, not even telemarketing, not even security guard, and the only other option is MLM, telling OP to get a second or weekend job sounds just a little disconnected from reality as I know it. 

Those are never the *only* options.  They are the only options if working indoors/under climate control/without lifting anything is a priority.  Part-time, occasional, and non-benefit jobs are the fastest growing segment right now.  Scrubbing toilets, delivering pizza for tips, and trimming hedges can never be outsourced. Considering what sort of jobs you are willing to take to get extra money, is an excellent way to figure out how tolerable or intolerable your current situation is by comparison.

The time I spent doing "light industrial" temp work in factories, clearing construction sites, etc. made me appreciate my (now) cushy secretary job with a computer and chair, all the more. And knowing what is and is not worth it to me to pursue my economic goals, has greatly improved my contentment in life.

TootsNYC

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2013, 03:28:10 PM »
When people with bachelor's degrees are working part time in fast food because there is nothing else they can get, not even sales, not even telemarketing, not even security guard, and the only other option is MLM, telling OP to get a second or weekend job sounds just a little disconnected from reality as I know it. 

Those are never the *only* options.  They are the only options if working indoors/under climate control/without lifting anything is a priority.  Part-time, occasional, and non-benefit jobs are the fastest growing segment right now.  Scrubbing toilets, delivering pizza for tips, and trimming hedges can never be outsourced. Considering what sort of jobs you are willing to take to get extra money, is an excellent way to figure out how tolerable or intolerable your current situation is by comparison.

The time I spent doing "light industrial" temp work in factories, clearing construction sites, etc. made me appreciate my (now) cushy secretary job with a computer and chair, all the more. And knowing what is and is not worth it to me to pursue my economic goals, has greatly improved my contentment in life.

Also--it may be hard, but that doesn't mean it isn't a viable solution.

peach2play

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2013, 03:51:19 PM »
POD with everyone else.  Make a plan and get out as soon as possible.  You're parents no longer see your rent as extra money.  They need it, and it sounds like, just like my mom, they've come to rely on it as a source of income instead of helping you learn responsibility.  I started paying rent at 16 to help me be responsible.  My mom, instead of putting that money aside, made it apart of her income.  It took until I was 25 for me to make enough money to move out on my own and I'm still paying $1k a month to her so she can stay in her house.  Long story, but learn from my mistake.  You are not responsible for your adult parent's money problems.  You are not responsible for their financial mistakes.  Yes, helping out is something family does, but it should be over quickly and they should be on their feet on their own.  They are not.  It will be hard and there will be some fall out, but it's way better than the situation I'm in.  Good luck and polish that spine.  As to your mom complaining, I've found, "Well, what are you going to do about it?" shuts my mom up very quickly because she doesn't want to change, she doesn't want to be financially stable, she just wants to complain and have me fix it.

Dorrie78

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2013, 03:53:27 PM »
The OP might need up to 3x the first month's rent just to secure a place- some require first month, 1 month security deposit and possibly last month's depending on local laws all up front. For a $500/month apartment that's $1000-1500.

This. And the credit check that is common. Landlords look at every aspect of the prospective tenant.

Edited to add: Apt costs vary widely, of course. Where I live (near NYC), a $500 apt is called "section 8." A 1-2 bedroom, decent place will cost $1500 or more a month. Life ain't cheap here!  :-[
But there is also nothing wrong with scanning the "housemates wanted" section of the newspaper (or Craigslist!). Moving out of your parents' home does not mean you have to move into your own apartment right away, especially if money is tight. Many group houses see frequent turnover of one of the housemates and not all of them require a credit check or much money up front.

It's okay to struggle and eat ramen noodles and live in a group house for a couple of years.

doodlemor

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2013, 04:53:20 PM »
Absolutely, I PODDITY, PODDITY, POD the PP who said to ** move into a place too small to accommodate any of them,** because this pattern seems to be prevalent in your family.  I feel badly saying this, but I think that it would be entirely possible that your mother would come to live with you.  Or else your grandparents might try to leech onto you if your parents sell the house.

It must be incredibly difficult for your mother to have her inlaws as permanent moochers in her home.  I remember from some of your previous posts that grandma is quite the peach.  It would not be surprising if your mother has a great deal of anger ready to spill out.  I'm amazed that she has been able to put up with the inlaws for so long.

It is very unfair of your mother to involve you by speaking with you about their finances, because this should be private between them.

Get a place of your own as soon as possible, before you get even more deeply mired into this situation. 

« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 05:06:30 PM by doodlemor »

gramma dishes

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Re: Navigating money issues with parents - long
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2013, 05:39:44 PM »
...   I started paying rent at 16 to help me be responsible.  My mom, instead of putting that money aside, made it apart of her income.  It took until I was 25 for me to make enough money to move out on my own and I'm still paying $1k a month to her so she can stay in her house.  ...

Why are you still paying $1000 a month so she can stay in her house?  That just doesn't compute.