Author Topic: Do you call people out on PA comments?  (Read 24126 times)

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MariaE

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #150 on: October 23, 2013, 04:40:20 PM »
I'd say, the stereotype for a teenage boy includes: popular action movies; video games; adventurous books intended for teens; T-shirts with skulls or ironic sayings or soda logos on them; iTunes gift cards; cases of Mountain Dew or Red Bull.

Out of those suggestions literally none of them applied to my cousin at age 15 :P Well, perhaps the iTunes gift card (although I don't know if he has any iProducts), but I thought the entire idea was to get beyond gift cards. Gift cards I can do, no problem. But I don't consider them any more special than just plain cash (unless it's a very specialized gift card of course).

I understand the love language thing, I really do, and it sucks when somebody like your son meets somebody like me. I get a minor panic attack just thinking about trying to buy him a present. What I want to stress is that people like him need to understand is that not everybody is able to adhere to their wishes, and while people like me would be rude to insist on a "shopping list" (even if that's what I would prefer... as long as there were enough things on it that he couldn't guess what I'd buy ;D ) people like him would be equally rude to refuse giving an "ideas list" (which I know your boy does, so that's all good :) ).
 
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TootsNYC

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #151 on: October 23, 2013, 04:43:59 PM »
Remember what I said about him: He wouldn't be terribly upset if a family member of his genuinely tried and missed.

He was greatly offended when someone who ought to know him pretty well wanted a gift request from him. So as long as a person didn't *ask* him what he wanted, he wouldn't be hurt at all. He might not enjoy the gift as much, it might not be as "nourishing" a gift exchange, but he wouldn't be *hurt*.

And it's not that he's judgmental and thinks that person is a horrible human being--his -feelings- are hurt. 

Curious Cat

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #152 on: October 23, 2013, 04:46:09 PM »
Remember what I said about him: He wouldn't be terribly upset if a family member of his genuinely tried and missed.

He was greatly offended when someone who ought to know him pretty well wanted a gift request from him. So as long as a person didn't *ask* him what he wanted, he wouldn't be hurt at all. He might not enjoy the gift as much, it might not be as "nourishing" a gift exchange, but he wouldn't be *hurt*.

And it's not that he's judgmental and thinks that person is a horrible human being--his -feelings- are hurt.

If someone was greatly offended that I asked what they would like for a gift they wouldn't have to worry about it twice.


Twik

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #153 on: October 23, 2013, 04:48:46 PM »
I'd say, the stereotype for a teenage boy includes: popular action movies; video games; adventurous books intended for teens; T-shirts with skulls or ironic sayings or soda logos on them; iTunes gift cards; cases of Mountain Dew or Red Bull.

But how do you know if he's got Action movie X or video game Y? There are a lot of them, and the kid who wants COD may think that Mario is for wimps. Another boy may adore Mario. In fact, they may be the same boy, six months apart.

Also, I'd be totally tempted to get a 20yo a small Lego something every year. Just because I believe that everyone deserves to get a toy for Christmas.

Annnnd you've just reminded me of my brother who had an absolute meltdown at 20 because someone gave him a desk toy. Doesn't always work....

(I think 20yo's are harder than 15yo's. The stereotypes are less helpful. Stereotypes are always risky, but at 20, they all but cease to apply.)


Again, my son would be OK with the idea that his cousin got him something that was a really good attempt. He wouldn't be OK with the idea that he was supposed to give a family member a shopping list. For a faraway grandparent, he'd compile an *ideas* list.

I know that picking out presents isn't everybody's skill. They don't get to use "the thought behind the present" as a way to communicate their affection. It doesn't mean they don't *feel* that affection--not at all! It simply means they cannot use that tool. And if their target sees value in that "love language," they're going to be left hungry. Which won't be horrendous if they're getting "fed" (in terms of affection) in other ways.

An important skill for the gift-receiver to learn is to not expect perfect gifts. Once they master that, they can receive presents in the spirit intended, rather than throwing tantrums that "Uncle Joe doesn't know that I'm *over* Pokemon, and only play FPSs now. He must not love me. Waaaaaah!"

I can only pod Curious Cat, that "If someone was greatly offended that I asked what they would like for a gift they wouldn't have to worry about it twice."
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 04:50:59 PM by Twik »
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

TootsNYC

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #154 on: October 23, 2013, 04:50:01 PM »
I'd say, the stereotype for a teenage boy includes: popular action movies; video games; adventurous books intended for teens; T-shirts with skulls or ironic sayings or soda logos on them; iTunes gift cards; cases of Mountain Dew or Red Bull.

Out of those suggestions literally none of them applied to my cousin at age 15 .

Don't you see? I think it's quite likely that you *do* know your cousin pretty well. If you know him well enough to be able to say that none of those stereotypical gifts would be appropriate for him.

Maybe you don't have a lot of practice translating into products, but you if can *reject* a product, then perhaps you can look at a list of 25 products and reject all the ones that don't work. Whatever's left is a reasonable gift.

I think sometimes people place too much pressure on themselves. They think each gift has to be a wonderful gift. It doesn't.

cwm's post is, I think, an example of that.
(though, unfortunately, this particular wording can come across as a criticism of the gift recipient)


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OTOH, you can see someone every day and still have no idea what to get for them. Case in point, my mother. I had people asking me what her favorite cake was, what her favorite cookies were, what kind of snack foods she liked. I have no idea. I've rarely gone a week without speaking to her, I've lived with her most of my life, and to this day all I can say about her food preferences is that she doesn't like raisins. I have no idea what to get her for her birthday or Christmas because she's always gracious about everything and has likes all over the place. I hate trying to find the "right" gift for her because there seems to be no "wrong" gift, leaving everything wide open.

I do think it's more powerful when a gift reflects your knowledge of a person. But cwm's post actually says it, word for word: "there seems to be no 'wrong' gift." That's because there isn't.
There might be "more-right gifts," but there is no wrong gift.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 04:54:13 PM by TootsNYC »

TootsNYC

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #155 on: October 23, 2013, 04:51:32 PM »

An important skill for the gift-receiver to learn is to not expect perfect gifts. Once they master that, they can receive presents in the spirit intended, rather than throwing tantrums that "Uncle Joe doesn't know that I'm *over* Pokemon, and only play FPSs now. He must not love me. Waaaaaah!"

Which, as I've said repeatedly, *my* son does not do (throw tantrums). In case you were using him as a continuing example.

There are people who do, of course.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 04:53:24 PM by TootsNYC »

Twik

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #156 on: October 23, 2013, 04:53:39 PM »
I'd say, the stereotype for a teenage boy includes: popular action movies; video games; adventurous books intended for teens; T-shirts with skulls or ironic sayings or soda logos on them; iTunes gift cards; cases of Mountain Dew or Red Bull.

Out of those suggestions literally none of them applied to my cousin at age 15 .

Don't you see? I think you *do* know your cousin pretty well. If you know him well enough to be able to say that none of those stereotypical gifts would be appropriate to him, then you know him well enough to buy a gift.

Maybe you don't have a lot of practice translating into products, but you if can *reject* a product, then surely you can look at a list of 25 products and reject all the ones that don't work. Whatever's left is a reasonable gift.

I think sometimes people place too much pressure on themselves. They think each gift has to be a wonderful gift. It doesn't.

cwm's post is, I think, an example of that.
(though, unfortunately, this particular wording can come across as a criticism of the gift recipient)


Quote
OTOH, you can see someone every day and still have no idea what to get for them. Case in point, my mother. I had people asking me what her favorite cake was, what her favorite cookies were, what kind of snack foods she liked. I have no idea. I've rarely gone a week without speaking to her, I've lived with her most of my life, and to this day all I can say about her food preferences is that she doesn't like raisins. I have no idea what to get her for her birthday or Christmas because she's always gracious about everything and has likes all over the place. I hate trying to find the "right" gift for her because there seems to be no "wrong" gift, leaving everything wide open.

I do think it's more powerful when a gift reflects your knowledge of a person. But cwm's post actually says it, word for word: "there seems to be no 'wrong' gift." That's because there isn't.
There might be "more-right gifts," but there is no wrong gift.

But you say your son was upset that someone merely asked what he most wanted. If he's that offended that that person "should know him well enough to select a gift," I would expect him to be also offended if that person came back with a gift that was completely the opposite of what he expected the giver should have known he wanted.

While I believe your son may accept gifts without "tantrums," he does seem to take offense at people who are merely trying to make sure they please him.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 04:56:52 PM by Twik »
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

TootsNYC

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #157 on: October 23, 2013, 04:56:28 PM »

But you say your son was upset that someone merely asked what he most wanted. If he's that offended that that person "should know him well enough to select a gift," I would expect him to be also offended if that person came back with a gift that was completely the opposite of what he expected the giver should have known he wanted.

That's an interesting assumption on your part.

I have repeatedly and explicitly said that he would not.

Please bow to my own knowledge of and explicitly and carefully repeated statements about my own child. I was very careful to draw distinctions between the specific (my actual child and his actual family), and any of the other people on this board. I expect the converse courtesy.

FYI--my son doesn't expect the person to know exactly what he wants. He thinks they should have ideas on their own. It ruins the fun for him when he tells someone what to get him. And it hurts his feelings when they indicate that they don't want to think of ideas.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 05:00:00 PM by TootsNYC »

Olympia

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #158 on: October 23, 2013, 05:02:22 PM »
POD. I don't have the energy to try and worry if I've guessed wrong or not.

I'd go further. I don't have the energy to try and worry about someone who would get offended that I asked for gift suggestions. Unless it was an obligatory gift-giving event, I'd pass.

Goosey

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #159 on: October 23, 2013, 05:04:32 PM »
So, he would be offended if someone was checking to see if he wanted something specific or had any request to make sure they got him something he wanted because, as you say, he thinks that they should just know through familiarity ... but he WOULDN'T be offended if they got him completely wrong even though that clearly demonstrates a lack of familiarity with his likes/dislikes.

There seems to be a disconnect there.

I don't even know what to buy my husband. And he doesn't know what to buy me. When we have a birthday, we usually go shopping together and get presents that way. Works that way with Christmas, too. Problem is, we simply buy what we want for ourselves, so gift-giving becomes a problem.

Curious Cat

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #160 on: October 23, 2013, 05:05:10 PM »
POD. I don't have the energy to try and worry if I've guessed wrong or not.

I'd go further. I don't have the energy to try and worry about someone who would get offended that I asked for gift suggestions. Unless it was an obligatory gift-giving event, I'd pass.

And honestly if I was told that their feelings were hurt that I dared ask I'd be concerned that they were oversensitive.

MariaE

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #161 on: October 23, 2013, 05:05:39 PM »
Remember what I said about him: He wouldn't be terribly upset if a family member of his genuinely tried and missed.

He was greatly offended when someone who ought to know him pretty well wanted a gift request from him. So as long as a person didn't *ask* him what he wanted, he wouldn't be hurt at all. He might not enjoy the gift as much, it might not be as "nourishing" a gift exchange, but he wouldn't be *hurt*.

And it's not that he's judgmental and thinks that person is a horrible human being--his -feelings- are hurt.

He might not mind, but I would. I would much rather give a safe but boring present than risk striking out. It's great that he doesn't mind, but that doesn't limit the pressure that I feel. A pressure that makes gift shopping a chore to dread no matter how much I love the recipient.

(The exception is if he's a reader. I tend to be strangely good at matching people to books, but that's about it.)

I can see where Twik is coming from, and no offense is intended - this is no longer about your son specifically, but about the mindset in general. In my head - and this is where the pressure comes in "She should know me well enough to buy me a present without me giving her ideas" = "She should know me well enough to know what I would like". So being hurt that I fail in the former would - again in my head - equal being hurt that I fail in the latter. An assumption, I know. I'm just telling you how I work.
 
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Twik

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #162 on: October 23, 2013, 05:05:46 PM »
Let's not make this specific about your son, who I'm sure was gracious and pleasant, even if disappointed to be asked. But in general, if I heard someone was offended that I'd asked him what he wants, I'd be terrified that I might offend him with something that didn't meet with some other unspoken criteria. Because he was asked with the intent of getting him something to please him. That's the "love language" bound up in that question, and getting feedback that it was offensive would be very hurtful.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

TootsNYC

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #163 on: October 23, 2013, 05:09:33 PM »
So, he would be offended if someone was checking to see if he wanted something specific

That's not what he said; I didn't think it was how I described it. He was offended because someone said, "What should I get you for Christmas?" Or "what do you want" in a way that indicated they wanted him to name one specific item.

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or had any request to make sure they got him something he wanted

Again, a restatement that misrepresents the subtleties here.

But then, you guys aren't related to him, so it doesn't really matter what you think of him


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There seems to be a disconnect there.
People are funny that way--lots of us are inconsistent.
It doesn't seem that inconsistent to me, that what he doesn't want is for someone to pawn off the "work" of picking a present on him--that the underlying message of that is not "I don't know you as well as we both wish I did," but rather, "I can't be bothered." The first is not nearly as hurtful as the second.

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I don't even know what to buy my husband.

I don't either. My son's philosophy, I think, would be that I should give myself some time to stop and think, and then just take a stab at it. But I think my son would say that I shouldn't go to my husband and ask him to name something that I can wrap up and put under the tree.

MariaE

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Re: Do you call people out on PA comments?
« Reply #164 on: October 23, 2013, 05:10:13 PM »
I'd say, the stereotype for a teenage boy includes: popular action movies; video games; adventurous books intended for teens; T-shirts with skulls or ironic sayings or soda logos on them; iTunes gift cards; cases of Mountain Dew or Red Bull.

Out of those suggestions literally none of them applied to my cousin at age 15 .

Don't you see? I think it's quite likely that you *do* know your cousin pretty well. If you know him well enough to be able to say that none of those stereotypical gifts would be appropriate for him.

Maybe you don't have a lot of practice translating into products, but you if can *reject* a product, then perhaps you can look at a list of 25 products and reject all the ones that don't work. Whatever's left is a reasonable gift.

That's my entire point! Wanting ideas does not mean I don't know somebody well. It means I am unable to extrapolate from what I know about them to what I should buy them as a present.

Seriously, unable. It would seem that the disconnect comes in when people don't understand that it's an ability issue, not a willingness issue. So say I look at a list of 25 products (assuming I can even comebup with that many) and reject them all - I am then no closer to finding a suitable gift than I was before I started.
 
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