Author Topic: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7  (Read 17969 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2013, 11:08:54 AM »
As an aunt, I wouldn't be afraid to say,

"ON, I'm giving this gift to YN. No, you cannot open it, stop right now. Go sit down and let YN open her present from me."

"ON, no, that' isn't for you. It's YN's birthday so she gets the presents. Please go sit down and let her open her gifts herself."

"Yes, ON, I understand that you want it, but I'm sorry, it's not yours. It's your sister's birthday and I am giving this to her. Please go sit down now."


Ditto--except that I'd also be saying, "Older Niece, come sit here on my lap, we'll watch her open the presents together. Come sit in my arms. Isn't it fun, to be the birthday girl? This time it's Younger Niece's turn." And I'd be modeling how one acts when one watches someone else open presents.

"Show us, Younger Niece--hold it up so ON and I can see it. Ooh, how pretty. Isn't that nice, ON? Your sister is really going to enjoy having that towel. You have one of those, remember when you got one for your birthday?"

And I'd be doing similar sorts of things before the birthday. "Isn't it going to be fun to watch her open presents? What can we do to make the day special? Let's put them here so it looks pretty."

With plenty of praise: "You're such a good big sister, to try to make her birthday special for YN. I love doing that--I did it for you, and you learned so well. It's fun to fuss over someone else."

Give her positive attention for being a good *watcher*--let her see that this gains her attention and love.

And redirect her--that's why I'd physically hold her on my lap--It would *look* like cuddling, but a part of it would be physically restraining her where she can't grab the other girl's presents.

Idlewildstudios

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #106 on: November 05, 2013, 11:53:52 AM »
As an aunt, I wouldn't be afraid to say,

"ON, I'm giving this gift to YN. No, you cannot open it, stop right now. Go sit down and let YN open her present from me."

"ON, no, that' isn't for you. It's YN's birthday so she gets the presents. Please go sit down and let her open her gifts herself."

"Yes, ON, I understand that you want it, but I'm sorry, it's not yours. It's your sister's birthday and I am giving this to her. Please go sit down now."

Normally I would have done this.  *But* with the grandparents currently trying to get custody and having the girl's mom there at the party, the dynamics were really strained already, so I just tried to lay low.  ON isn't one to sit in my lap, since DHand I make her behave when she is around us, she tends to keep a healthy distance from me and DH.  If the grandparents are present and we nail her on her poor behavior, she just gives us a sly look out of the corner of hey eye and clings to Grandma, who will cave.

I did have both girls for about a week when my ILs had to leave town for an emergency.  I introduced a proper time out policy and did not tolerate tantrums, name calling, hitting or refusal to cooperate.  We had a good time once I established that I wasn't going to cave to a tantrum.  My IL's were amazed at how well the girls behaved, especially ON.  They are now trying to do same and life has been better at their house, but like at the party, they aren't consistent with ON.  But it is getting better.

My MIL actually told me that they didn't think ON was capable of controlling herself so they never insisted she try!!  :0

Luci

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #107 on: November 05, 2013, 12:30:31 PM »

 ON isn't one to sit in my lap, since DHand I make her behave when she is around us, she tends to keep a healthy distance from me and DH.  If the grandparents are present and we nail her on her poor behavior, she just gives us a sly look out of the corner of hey eye and clings to Grandma, who will cave.

I did have both girls for about a week when my ILs had to leave town for an emergency.  I introduced a proper time out policy and did not tolerate tantrums, name calling, hitting or refusal to cooperate.  We had a good time once I established that I wasn't going to cave to a tantrum.  My IL's were amazed at how well the girls behaved, especially ON.  They are now trying to do same and life has been better at their house, but like at the party, they aren't consistent with ON.  But it is getting better.

My MIL actually told me that they didn't think ON was capable of controlling herself so they never insisted she try!!  :0

That is great! The Other Grandma, who sees our mutual grandkids more than we do, caves to every tantrum. The parents and we don't. One time one child was throwing a fit in front of all 6 parents and grandparents and the parent holding her said, "Cut it out! You know that doesn't work with us.!" Instant calm. Lesson learned and still in effect. We do the same  thing. So the kids do know how to behave around different people.

When our son had tantrums, we did let him do what he had to do to get his anger/frustration out, but we never caved to what he was mad about. He's a really great man now.

 

TootsNYC

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #108 on: November 05, 2013, 12:58:00 PM »
It's sort of too bad that there is so much negative reinforcement in ON's life. And that she's being taught with "don't do" instead of with "please do."

You can get good behavior with positive attention. Plus it lets the grownup talk about what it is a person should DO during a present opening, as opposed to talking about what to NOT do. Kids need that--they don't have the experience to invent alternate things to occupy themselves.

A *huge* part of teaching children impulse control (which is what this is, it sounds like to me) is coaching them toward alternate behaviors. By telling them what those behaviors are, by modeling that behavior, by actively involving them in the alternate behaviors.

Twik

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #109 on: November 05, 2013, 03:25:14 PM »
It's sort of too bad that there is so much negative reinforcement in ON's life.

Where do you get this from? Other than the OP, no one seems to be telling her that she can't do what she wants, or that she's wrong to do it.
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Peregrine

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #110 on: November 05, 2013, 03:58:39 PM »
It seems like an unfortunate situation for everyone involved.  Given what has been said by the OP that Grandparents are currently in a custody battle for the children.  I'm guessing that they have been worried about the bigger picture, grandparents don't generally get full custody unless something is very wrong to begin with. 

Hopefully, once custody is resolved the Grandparents can refocus on behavior and etiquette with the children.  Reading between the lines, it seems like they are absolutely overwhelmed.

TootsNYC

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #111 on: November 05, 2013, 04:02:35 PM »
It's sort of too bad that there is so much negative reinforcement in ON's life.

Where do you get this from? Other than the OP, no one seems to be telling her that she can't do what she wants, or that she's wrong to do it.

Maybe it's that the OP's followup post seemed to focus on negative discipline, not positive. So maybe it's not that there's so much, but that this seems to be the only option that the OP has considered (time outs, "nail her on it," etc.)

The affectionate, friendly guidance seems to have been lost. The grandparents assume the kid can't control herself, so they don't bother, instead of teaching her how. And the OP focuses on the negative parts enough so that the child "keeps a healthy distance." From the comments, there's not much in the way of a friendly, affectionate, *positive* communication going on in regard to behavior.

Idlewildstudios

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #112 on: November 05, 2013, 04:30:39 PM »
The normal positive modeling does not work with ON.  That is what my IL's have been using for the past two years.  It has been a constant "ON please do this, not this". "Please use your manners, this is how we take turns.."  Etc, etc.  She was becoming so out of control, hitting, bitting, name calling, that no one wanted to be left alone with her. 

I simply introduced a calm time out, delivered after two behavior warnings.  No arguing, no angry words on my part, just a calm " you hit your sister after being asked to stop, now you can sit for 4 minutes."  Rinse and repeat. 

DH and I are the only two people who have ever made her follow through with a time out and apologize.  Yes, there is a mental issue  concern which is being looked into, but I did show the IL's that she could control certain behaviors.  She is now much more pleasant to be around and they are all a bit less stressed.

Not negative punishment but tough love.  She avoids me when she misbehaves because she knows I'll call her on it.   This is child who was so out of control that DH and I stopped sending our 13 year old DD over to spend the night when she kept coming back with bruises and bite marks from ON.  She didn't want to defend herself against her cousin and the grandparents just kept asking ON to use her manners and not bite but would not step up and actually stop her from hitting and bitting.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 05:10:57 PM by Idlewildstudios »

Miss Tickle

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #113 on: November 05, 2013, 08:47:55 PM »

My MIL actually told me that they didn't think ON was capable of controlling herself so they never insisted she try!!  :0

Please tell me these aren't the grandparents seeking custody. That's seriously frightening.

Idlewildstudios

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2013, 08:53:04 PM »
Yes, same grandparents.  The whole situation is messed up.  Drugs, infidelity, suspected abuse, and two people who never should have procreated.  The IL and DH and myself are all these girls have that is stable in their lives.  It will take all of us to get them through this and hopefully raised up as respectable adults.  It is really heartbreaking.

Quesselin

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #115 on: November 06, 2013, 05:58:04 AM »
No advice, but please allow me to say this: Thank you so much for being willing to be a stable influence in the lives of these unfortunate children. You and your husband are good people for doing this.

Wordgeek

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Re: Am I wrong to be miffed, birthday gift, update pg 7
« Reply #116 on: November 06, 2013, 12:34:34 PM »
Insofar as this is etiquette, the matter seems to have been addresses.

Toots, your contributions here seem unhelpful, and I deleted the last one.