Author Topic: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians  (Read 18416 times)

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Psychopoesie

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2013, 10:47:00 AM »
If it matters, I brought the veggie sausages to the table at this gathering, and loudly annouced 'these are the veggie sausages' as I put them down.

I think if you have to 'hope there's enough' for others after you take one of something, then that's a sign that you should be thinking more deeply about why there is a smaller amount of that particular item. Maybe there's more on the way, maybe that item was intended for a group of people on a restricted diet (e.g. that's the dairy-free ice cream), but I think it's polite just to give a little bit of thought to the question.

Announcing that "these are veggie sausages" is not the same as saying these are for vegetarians only. Plus, if people are chatting and generally enjoying themselves at a party, they may not be paying that much attention or understand that this is what was meant by the statement.  So it's worth making it plain. I wouldn't take an item if it was clearly stated to be "for vegetarians only".

If it's a large enough buffet, it may not be obvious that there is only a small amount of one food item. Sometimes smaller serving plates of the same food are placed at different points along the table. Or food could be being brought out in batches, as it was at the bbq I attended. It can be hard to tell how many of an item there were originally if you're towards the end of the buffet line. Taking a single serve of a dish from a buffet does not strike me as greedy or selfish.

I'd usually expect the hosts to ensure enough food was provided so that everyone could at least sample each type of food on a buffet and that those on restricted diets could have a decent feed. After all, the hosts are likely the only ones who know how many of their guests have dietary restrictions.

Like some of the previous posters, I'm also not a big meat eater. If it was a choice between pepperoni or vegetable topped pizza, I'd go veg every time. There are lots of other veg based foods that are widely popular - felafels, stuffed peppers, vine leaves and more. So if there's only just enough of a particular food for vegetarian guests, it would be helpful if it wasn't served buffet style.


Hmmmmm

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2013, 10:54:24 AM »
If it matters, I brought the veggie sausages to the table at this gathering, and loudly annouced 'these are the veggie sausages' as I put them down. I think if you have to 'hope there's enough' for others after you take one of something, then that's a sign that you should be thinking more deeply about why there is a smaller amount of that particular item. Maybe there's more on the way, maybe that item was intended for a group of people on a restricted diet (e.g. that's the dairy-free ice cream), but I think it's polite just to give a little bit of thought to the question.

Teeny, if I had been a guest and a person brought something to the table and announced "here's something different that I brought" and just put them down, I would think they were everyone to sample them.   

If you meant them to be for the vegetarains, then I think you should have said "I brought these veggie sausages for the vegetarians."

Teenyweeny

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2013, 11:00:13 AM »
I'm an omnivore. I eat meat. But I'm by no means a "meat lover". I love vegetables. And I prefer cheese or spinach pizza to any other types of pizza. Just because I do eat meat doesn't mean I want every dish, or even every meal to have meat in it. And I get pretty insulted when vegetarians assume that because I do eat meat it means I always eat tons of meat to the exclusion of other foods.

As i said in the other thread, when at a buffet party people should do a quick scan of the number of people of at the event and at the number of servings of each food and only take one portion. But if all foods are presented to all the guests, every guest has equal rights to try any of the foods.

I absolutely agree. I'm talking specifically about cases where it's clear that one dish won't stretch to give everybody present a reasonable helping (e.g. 10 veggie burgers and 25 guests). Then, if you aren't veggie, I think it's rude to take a veggie burger.

So its rude for me to take the food I prefer because I'm not strict about never eating meat? Because I choose to be flexible in life I should not get my preferred foods at parties but rather should be relegated to eat what I don't want? That doesn't sound very polite.

Most vegetarians are so by choice not by necessity. And most vegetarians despite the rumors won't in fact get sick if they suddenly consume meat. So I really don't see why if someone chooses to not ever meat they should be granted things they like while the person who chooses to simply eat less meat should not get what they prefer because they are willing to compromise.

Ok, let's say there are two people, and two burgers. One is a veggie burger, one is a beef burger. Ann is a vegetarian, Bob is not, although Bob actually prefers veggie burgers to beef burgers, and doesn't really eat that much meat anyway.

Does Bob get to take the veggie burger, leaving Ann hungry? I think we'd all say that Bob was at least being inconsiderate, if not rude.

Similarly, when I eat with vegan friends I make sure that I let them have the lion's share of the vegan-friendly food, even if the tofu looks super yummy (and I do love me some tofu  ;) ), because it would be inconsiderate of me to place my tastes above their need to eat a decent meal.

ETA: I hope the bolded doesn't mean that you think that vegetarians should just suck it up and eat meat if there's no veggie food left.  :o
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 11:12:04 AM by Teenyweeny »



White Lotus

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2013, 11:00:44 AM »
When we bring a vegetarian entree or a not obviously veg side dish, which we often do and always offer, we also bring, for a buffet, little cards that say "vegetarian" or "vegan" and add "gluten-free" where applicable.  We find that non-veg folk often avoid those dishes first time around, and then the cards get lost or moved, and everybody dives in.  We bring a lot, because non-veg folk like our cooking, we like to demonstrate that vegetarian or vegan food is really good, and we like leftovers.  I do get sick from stealth meat, and usually rope somebody in as my "official taster".  It is a good way to strike up an acquaintance, too.  It is possible for hosts to reserve and hold back something  until all the restricted people have had a shot at it, and then set it out for everyone.  That works when quantities are limited.

Ms_Cellany

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2013, 11:01:52 AM »
When I was vegetarian, and our office ordered a bazillion meat pizzas and one veggie one, I'd watch in dismay as people went, "Oh, good, veggies!  Something lighter!" It simply never entered their mind that the vegetarian would be left with nothing to eat.
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Teenyweeny

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2013, 11:04:24 AM »
If it matters, I brought the veggie sausages to the table at this gathering, and loudly annouced 'these are the veggie sausages' as I put them down. I think if you have to 'hope there's enough' for others after you take one of something, then that's a sign that you should be thinking more deeply about why there is a smaller amount of that particular item. Maybe there's more on the way, maybe that item was intended for a group of people on a restricted diet (e.g. that's the dairy-free ice cream), but I think it's polite just to give a little bit of thought to the question.

Teeny, if I had been a guest and a person brought something to the table and announced "here's something different that I brought" and just put them down, I would think they were everyone to sample them.   

If you meant them to be for the vegetarains, then I think you should have said "I brought these veggie sausages for the vegetarians."

To clarify, I brought them to the table, I didn't bring them to the party.

Would you still think you should take one if there were clearly fewer sausages than guests? That's the part I can't wrap my head around, I suppose. Yes, it's nice to taste all of the dishes, but if it's clearly a special dish, and there isn't enough to serve everybody, I think it's polite to pass until those who have more of a need for that dish have been served.



Teenyweeny

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2013, 11:06:01 AM »
When I was vegetarian, and our office ordered a bazillion meat pizzas and one veggie one, I'd watch in dismay as people went, "Oh, good, veggies!  Something lighter!" It simply never entered their mind that the vegetarian would be left with nothing to eat.

That's what I mean.



Yvaine

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2013, 11:10:26 AM »
When I was vegetarian, and our office ordered a bazillion meat pizzas and one veggie one, I'd watch in dismay as people went, "Oh, good, veggies!  Something lighter!" It simply never entered their mind that the vegetarian would be left with nothing to eat.

IMO, the answer to that (in the long term) is more veggie pizza (instead of one of the meat varieties), not that the omnivores should feel obligated to skip the veggie pizza for all time. I've been in workplaces where we quickly figured out that the majority of people simply liked veggies, even if they weren't vegetarian, and ordered correspondingly. This is not to dismiss the annoyance in the short term! Just saying that it's fixable for the next time.

Library Dragon

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2013, 11:10:47 AM »
We have a couple of vegetarians in my office.  When we ordered pizza, there would be one veggie and the rest would all have meat of some sort, some all meat, some meat and veggies.  Drove me nuts that people would take the veggie and if the two vegetarians weren't near the front of the line, they wouldn't get at any.

We solved the problem by ordering two veggie pizzas and reducing the meat options by one.


See, I am not a vegetarian, but I do not like meat on pizza. Never have. Why should I have to take the pizza with meat that I do want? Am I being rude by taking what I like?

POD
My favorite pizza is quattro formagi (4 cheese) or mushroom. 

I also like veggie burgers and portobello mushrooms.  There are many reasons that a smaller plate of a veggie item would be on the buffet table.  Keeping these items fresher, grilling as needed, etc.  It wouldn't automatically signal that these are all that is available unless the guests are informed of that fact. 

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Zilla

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2013, 11:11:35 AM »
If it matters, I brought the veggie sausages to the table at this gathering, and loudly annouced 'these are the veggie sausages' as I put them down. I think if you have to 'hope there's enough' for others after you take one of something, then that's a sign that you should be thinking more deeply about why there is a smaller amount of that particular item. Maybe there's more on the way, maybe that item was intended for a group of people on a restricted diet (e.g. that's the dairy-free ice cream), but I think it's polite just to give a little bit of thought to the question.

Teeny, if I had been a guest and a person brought something to the table and announced "here's something different that I brought" and just put them down, I would think they were everyone to sample them.   

If you meant them to be for the vegetarains, then I think you should have said "I brought these veggie sausages for the vegetarians."


Snipped:
Ok, let's say there are two people, and two burgers. One is a veggie burger, one is a beef burger. Ann is a vegetarian, Bob is not, although Bob actually prefers veggie burgers to beef burgers, and doesn't really eat that much meat anyway.[/size]Does Bob get to take the veggie burger, leaving Ann hungry? I think we'd all say that Bob was at least being inconsiderate, if not rude. Similarly, when I eat with vegan friends I make sure that I let them have the lion's share of the vegan-friendly food, even if the tofu looks super yummy (and I do love me some tofu   ), because it would be inconsiderate of me to place my tastes above their need to eat a decent meal.

To clarify, I brought them to the table, I didn't bring them to the party.

Would you still think you should take one if there were clearly fewer sausages than guests? That's the part I can't wrap my head around, I suppose. Yes, it's nice to taste all of the dishes, but if it's clearly a special dish, and there isn't enough to serve everybody, I think it's polite to pass until those who have more of a need for that dish have been served.



Your first example with the burgers, how would Bob know it's the only one?  How does he know the hostess doesn't have more?  In your second example of the sausages, again how would they know it's "clearly" special other than you announcing it's a specialty sausage and it might not be very popular so you just cooked a few but might have more on reserve in the kitchen.


In both of these examples, the limited food should be in the kitchen away from the crowd. 





Hmmmmm

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2013, 11:14:51 AM »
If it matters, I brought the veggie sausages to the table at this gathering, and loudly annouced 'these are the veggie sausages' as I put them down. I think if you have to 'hope there's enough' for others after you take one of something, then that's a sign that you should be thinking more deeply about why there is a smaller amount of that particular item. Maybe there's more on the way, maybe that item was intended for a group of people on a restricted diet (e.g. that's the dairy-free ice cream), but I think it's polite just to give a little bit of thought to the question.

Teeny, if I had been a guest and a person brought something to the table and announced "here's something different that I brought" and just put them down, I would think they were everyone to sample them.   

If you meant them to be for the vegetarains, then I think you should have said "I brought these veggie sausages for the vegetarians."

To clarify, I brought them to the table, I didn't bring them to the party.

Would you still think you should take one if there were clearly fewer sausages than guests? That's the part I can't wrap my head around, I suppose. Yes, it's nice to taste all of the dishes, but if it's clearly a special dish, and there isn't enough to serve everybody, I think it's polite to pass until those who have more of a need for that dish have been served.

So who is supposed to decide who gets the "special" dish?

So there's a party of 30-35 people.
You bring a tray of 12 veggie sausages to the table and say "these are veggie sausages"
How am I supposed to know there are 6 vegetarians in the group of 30 and if I take one of the veggie sausages and a chicken leg that I'm going to leave 1 vegetarian with only 1 sausage instead of the allocated 2?

Or let's say it's 3 trays of cookies. One looks like a sugar cookie and there is about 2 dozen. Another looks like peanut butter and has a dozen and another tray is chocolate chip and there are 2 dozens. So who decides who is "special enough" to deserve on of the peanut butter cookies? Does all guests stay away from them because they might be taking something that someone else might want?

I'm mean sure, if it's a group of 5 guests and there are 4 regular burgers and one veggie burger made specifically for the vegetarian it would be rude to take it.

But for a large party of 20 or more, it's too much to expect the guests to be able to accurately guess if something is intended for a limited audience. It's up to the hosts to clarify if they mean for an item to only be consumed by that group.

Example is sugar free desserts. If I make 3 pies and 1 is sugar free, I'll state 'I made a sugar free cocunut pie for the diabetics in the group". But if I just say I made a sugar fre cocunt pie, my guests might assume I made it for anyone trying to control their sugar intake.

Yvaine

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2013, 11:15:53 AM »
Usually, in my experience, if there's only a few of the restricted food, the host will try to discreetly get it to the person who needs it personally. At my last workplace, one woman had a gluten allergy, and we'd make sure to hand her GF food directly to her, because there wasn't enough for everyone and it didn't necessarily look special or might be tempting to others for different reasons. One example: she'd get a salad when the lunch was a platter of sandwiches, and we had to give her the salad personally, or else someone would just decide they felt like salad that day (even though the sandwich platter had been planned and agreed on by all) and wouldn't realize there was only the one. Another example: we got GF cinnamon rolls for a breakfast, and had to get them to her personally because, well, they just looked like cinnamon rolls and not very different from the other cinnamon rolls.

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2013, 11:18:20 AM »
I'm an omnivore. I eat meat. But I'm by no means a "meat lover". I love vegetables. And I prefer cheese or spinach pizza to any other types of pizza. Just because I do eat meat doesn't mean I want every dish, or even every meal to have meat in it. And I get pretty insulted when vegetarians assume that because I do eat meat it means I always eat tons of meat to the exclusion of other foods.

As i said in the other thread, when at a buffet party people should do a quick scan of the number of people of at the event and at the number of servings of each food and only take one portion. But if all foods are presented to all the guests, every guest has equal rights to try any of the foods.

I absolutely agree. I'm talking specifically about cases where it's clear that one dish won't stretch to give everybody present a reasonable helping (e.g. 10 veggie burgers and 25 guests). Then, if you aren't veggie, I think it's rude to take a veggie burger.

So its rude for me to take the food I prefer because I'm not strict about never eating meat? Because I choose to be flexible in life I should not get my preferred foods at parties but rather should be relegated to eat what I don't want? That doesn't sound very polite.

Most vegetarians are so by choice not by necessity. And most vegetarians despite the rumors won't in fact get sick if they suddenly consume meat. So I really don't see why if someone chooses to not ever meat they should be granted things they like while the person who chooses to simply eat less meat should not get what they prefer because they are willing to compromise.

Ok, let's say there are two people, and two burgers. One is a veggie burger, one is a beef burger. Ann is a vegetarian, Bob is not, although Bob actually prefers veggie burgers to beef burgers, and doesn't really eat that much meat anyway.

Does Bob get to take the veggie burger, leaving Ann hungry? I think we'd all say that Bob was at least being inconsiderate, if not rude.

Similarly, when I eat with vegan friends I make sure that I let them have the lion's share of the vegan-friendly food, even if the tofu looks super yummy (and I do love me some tofu  ;) ), because it would be inconsiderate of me to place my tastes above their need to eat a decent meal.

Bob wouldn't be the inconsiderate one. The host would be.

You are saying omnivores don't deserve to get what they prefer and should suffer for their choice to not be picky. That is not fair or polite or considerate of omnivores, it just isn't. Not being picky should be rewarded not punished. Why should Bob not get what he prefers? Why should Bob always have to suck it up and take the least desirable thing simply because Ann refuses to compromise and occasionally eat meat like Bob does even though Bob does not prefer meat?
If Bob chooses to defer to Ann that's him being extra nice and he should be thanked and recognized, but he should not be forced to take the less desirable item simply because Ann refuses to budge.

Teenyweeny

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2013, 11:19:47 AM »
Well, my example was a hypothetical, in which Bob and Ann are the only people there and those two burgers are the only food provided.

At most parties I go to, it's a given that there are fewer veggie main dishes than meat main dishes. Like I said, I don't like that setup, but that appears to be how it is. Absolutely the solution is for there to be enough of everything for everyone to take as much as they want, but I can see why hosts don't want to do that, because it's going to lead to a hell of a lot of leftovers and possible food wastage, plus it's expensive!

Unfortunately, what that means in my neck of the woods is that the hosts budget for less of the 'speciality' food and more of the 'regular' food. What this ends up meaning is that those who need to eat the speciality food don't get quite enough, because it's eaten up by people who could have chosen from another dish.




Yvaine

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Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2013, 11:22:55 AM »
I'm mean sure, if it's a group of 5 guests and there are 4 regular burgers and one veggie burger made specifically for the vegetarian it would be rude to take it.

But for a large party of 20 or more, it's too much to expect the guests to be able to accurately guess if something is intended for a limited audience. It's up to the hosts to clarify if they mean for an item to only be consumed by that group.

Yeah, in a really small and close-knit group, people might know each other's dietary quirks really well; for example, growing up, one of my sisters despised nuts and all sauces. So we all knew who the naked pasta was for (she loved this, with a bit of parmesan), and if a muffin was off to the side, we knew it was the nutless one. But in a larger group, I don't expect people to know everyone else's restrictions.

Well, my example was a hypothetical, in which Bob and Ann are the only people there and those two burgers are the only food provided.

Well, if there are only two people there, and Bob knows Ann is a vegetarian, I get it. But in a big party, I don't expect Bob to know that Ann is a vegetarian and Beth has celiac and Chris is allergic to shellfish and Dan can't have nuts and Elizabeth keeps kosher.