S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians

[MindsEye]

I have agreed, repeatedly, that the problem is with hosting. It would be simply lovely if there was enough for everybody to take a decent portion of whatever they choose. But, IME, that often is not the case when it comes to veggie options.

So then, what's the answer?
The host has put everything on the buffet instead of setting the limited veggie items aside.
The omnivorous guests are oblivious to the fact that the veggie items are limited.
The vegetarian guests are hoping that there will be enough veggie items left by the time they get to serve themselves.

It then becomes up to the vegetarian guests to take charge of their own situation.
Maybe ask the hostess to set aside some of the veggie dishes in a special place. Or make sure you're at the front of the line. I dunno.

In any case, the host is not doing a good job for the guests but the guests aren't rude, so it's up to those guests who have specific needs to figure out how to deal with it. And if for some reason, it can't be dealt with, and you go hungry, you leave and go get something to eat elsewhere.

In the real world, people simply are not going to do the things you're suggesting, i.e. look at the small amount and assume it's for vegetarians, etc. I mean, even if we all held hands here and agreed that yes, that is the polite and right thing to do and darn it, everyone should know that!, it wouldn't make it happen.

Yes, exactly, to the bolded. 

In the end, the only person responsible for your food needs/issues is you. 

The host isn't going to know about them unless you speak up.
The other guests aren't going to know about them unless you speak up.
People aren't mind readers.

[Hmmmmm]

I have agreed, repeatedly, that the problem is with hosting. It would be simply lovely if there was enough for everybody to take a decent portion of whatever they choose. But, IME, that often is not the case when it comes to veggie options.

So then, what's the answer?
The host has put everything on the buffet instead of setting the limited veggie items aside.
The omnivorous guests are oblivious to the fact that the veggie items are limited.
The vegetarian guests are hoping that there will be enough veggie items left by the time they get to serve themselves.

It then becomes up to the vegetarian guests to take charge of their own situation.
Maybe ask the hostess to set aside some of the veggie dishes in a special place. Or make sure you're at the front of the line. I dunno.

In any case, the host is not doing a good job for the guests but the guests aren't rude, so it's up to those guests who have specific needs to figure out how to deal with it. And if for some reason, it can't be dealt with, and you go hungry, you leave and go get something to eat elsewhere.

In the real world, people simply are not going to do the things you're suggesting, i.e. look at the small amount and assume it's for vegetarians, etc. I mean, even if we all held hands here and agreed that yes, that is the polite and right thing to do and darn it, everyone should know that!, it wouldn't make it happen.

Yes, exactly, to the bolded. 

In the end, the only person responsible for your food needs/issues is you. 

The host isn't going to know about them unless you speak up.
The other guests aren't going to know about them unless you speak up.
People aren't mind readers.

Also, it is generally considered rude to srcutinize or take to close attention to other's eating habits. Even your "only eat it once the vegetarians have made a plate" is requiring guests to rudely track other guest's food consumption. As a hostess, I have the responsiblilty to discreetly make sure all of my guests are well fed. But it's rude of another guest to pay that type of attention.

[Yvaine]

Also, it is generally considered rude to srcutinize or take to close attention to other's eating habits. Even your "only eat it once the vegetarians have made a plate" is requiring guests to rudely track other guest's food consumption. As a hostess, I have the responsiblilty to discreetly make sure all of my guests are well fed. But it's rude of another guest to pay that type of attention.

It's also kind of...unfestive. I grew up in a big family and we bean-counted every single thing; it's something I've had to unlearn so I can relax at parties!  This does not mean, of course, that people should snarf a million servings of food like the hot dog guy in the other thread, but that standing around crunching math is not what a guest wants to do at a party. It's part of the work involved in hosting, IMO.

[azleaneo]

I have to be gluten free against my own wishes. I have to make my own choices and if I go to a potluck and there's a gluten free option, great, if it's gone before I got to it, oh well, and if end up not finding anything to eat that time then I missed out.

What would I do in that situation? I would go to the host and say "Thank you for providing a gluten free option, it looks like it was really popular and I didn't get to it in time. Perhaps you should have it again at the next gathering since it did so well!"

What am I not going to do? I'm not going to wonder and fret over the fact that maybe Bob ate some and he's not gluten  free, and Sally doesn't really need gluten free food she's just eating it because she thinks it's a fad diet, etc.

If the host knows that I'm gluten free and put aside the gluten free stuffing in the kitchen and grabs me as I'm grabbing a plate and says, there's gluten free stuffing set aside for you then that's absolutely wonderful. However if she didn't put it aside, she's not rude for putting it out and having it end up gone.

With the vegetarian situation, if you have 100% of the people there willing to eat vegetables, and only 50% of the people there willing to eat meat, then maybe the vegetable option should be larger to accommodate all the people. If you know that you have 5 vegetarians there, you still are probably going to need more than what those people are going to consume since the rest of the people there can eat it.

Also, if all else fails, there's always plain ol' salad with a plain dressing. There's been plenty of potlucks where that's been the only thing I could have and that suits me just fine. I'm there for the company and socializing, not to get upset that Larry took the last gluten free brownie right in front of me.

*Super hypothetical situation to make you think about things: What if the ONLY option that you could have possibly eaten given whatever restrictions you have ended up getting spilled all over the ground and no one got it except the dogs? How upsetting would that be? Would there be any of the anger and worry and pointing out rudeness if the food was destroyed?

Reading through this thread I only could see two very firm examples of rudeness. 1. Nephew eating shrimp off of Aunties plate, and 2. Coworker eating a meal that was specifically for someone else and commenting that they knew it was specifically for that person but they ate it anyway. The rudeness in the second situation comes from the singularity of the food being for a single person. That situation is the equivalent of eating someone's food with someone's name on it. In a hosted situation again my previous statement that if the host had something specific for me then it should be set aside specific for me, and I should not expect that that would even be the case.

[EllenS]

Being a piggie at the buffet and taking unreasonably sized portions of anything, is rude.  Hosting a party and not providing reasonable accomodations for your guests' comfort, and adequate portions of food for the amount of people invited, is rude. Tracking what other people (who are not your minor children) eat, is rude.

I know quite a lot of people whose dietary restrictions change frequently.  Failing to have all your fellow guests' dietary restrictions memorized and updated to the minute, is not rude. Failing to do the host's job and count/assign portions per guest, appropriately to their individual needs, is not rude.

Unless a dish is labeled or set aside in some specific way, anything on the buffet is fair game for anybody attending the buffet. Expecting other people to be psychic, and just "know" that something is for Special Guests Only, or expecting other people to be responsible for one's meal, is both unrealistic and unreasonable.

If someone brings a "special" food to a party, and announces to the crowd, "these are the Special items!  I made them just for this party!", the quite normal response in my part of the world/upbringing, would be to say, "great, I can't wait to try one!"  I would assume the bringer was purposely calling our attention to the item so we could try it and compliment it.

[LadyR]

If I was hosting a largish BBQ, there is no way I would provide enough veggie alternatives for everyone to have some.  I won't eat them so having leftovers is a huge waste.  Plus, they are considerably more expensive than meat options.

I completely understand this but I'm not getting the idea of the fake meat necessity that seems to be popping up in the thread.   It's definitely too expensive and most people don't like them so why buy it period?

When I think of hosting vegetarians for a BBQ I think of putting things on the grill that everyone can enjoy.  Some mentioned portabello mushrooms.  There are also veggie kabobs and grilled corn.  Why not make extra potato salad and fruit salad?  Or how about a large green salad with nuts and cheese for protein?  People seem to get hung up on tofu dogs and veggie burgers being necessary alongside the real meat.  I just don't see it.  Cooking for vegetarian should be cheaper because you're not spending as much on the meat.  I would make more of the less expensive meatless options.  Leave the tofu dogs at the overpriced health store

In my example, it was a hot dog bar. There were 27 different types of toppings for the hot dogs (there was also salad and dip), so it was definitely the focus and i provide the vegetarian option so that the vegetarians could participate fully. I don't think I was obligated to provide that alternate option for everyone and i had them set aside on a seperate plate and announced that they were for the two vegatarians. I also did cook them seperately.

[White Lotus]

A couple of PPs have pointed out that the provision of meat analogs (veg burgers, dogs, sausages, etc.) is not really necessary as long as there are plenty of other things vegetarians or vegans can eat, some of which contain protein sources (beans, etc.)  Omnivores see meat as a centerpiece dish and want to swap out one for one.  Failure to make that swap makes a meal feel incomplete to them.  Vegetarian cooking just doesn't work that way; main dishes tend to be mixed dishes, like soups or stews or casseroles or stir fries.  There is a reason for this, besides the wonderful plethora of naturally vegetarian dishes available.

Meat analogs are just not that good.  They are overpowering at best and icky at worst.  I do not want to eat a meat analog dog all by itself in a bun, with appropriate condiments.  It is too much.  Maybe an eighth of one, like a pickle spear. Once a year, if that.  We use meat analogs occasionally, but prefer to use them in tiny amounts mostly to make omnivores comfortable -- chili just doesn't feel right to them without something that looks like meat in it, for example, even when they know it is not meat.  Red sauce for pasta.  Shepherd's pie.  Like that.  We do have a brand of veg burgers we like -- but they don't pretend they are trying to be meat, and we want burgers only a few times a year, anyway.

It is nice when a host makes an effort to provide veg food.  We appreciate it, and we're happy to bring it, too.  We like your company, but we get hungry.  But a one to one swap is not really necessary.  Why not ask the guests?  I don't know a single veg who does not automatically offer to bring a veg entree when accepting any invitation.  We really don't mind, and would like to work with you to make it a coordinated and delicious meal. ETA: that hog dog bar sounds great!  You won't mind if I skip the veg dog or only take part of one, will you?  Thanks!

[turnip]

You know - I wonder if some of the disconnect is that there seem to be regions where a meal without meat is not considered a true meal.  I remember a thread - I don't know if it was here or another wedding site, it was a while ago - where a couple wanted to have a vegetarian reception and there were many responses along the lines of "Well, we'd go, but we'd have to leave as soon as possible to get some 'real' food"

I live in the land of granola and tofu, so my default assumption is that any guest may eat any variety of food, and 'vegetarian'  plates should be available to all.  If I lived somewhere else, I might assume that the only reason a person would willingly forgo meat is if they had severe food or moral restrictions.  Therefore it might seem 'rude' for a non-veg guest to take a veg entree, because it is so far out of my social norm.

Hmm - food for thought.  No pun intended!

[I'mnotinsane]

I never considered a black olive and mushroom pizza a vegeterian pizza. It's just pizza.

I agree - a pizza with, say, mushrooms, onions and green peppers is not a "vegetarian pizza", it's just a pizza with vegetable toppings. And it sounds like more people like that than the meat ones. I might try next time switching one of the meat pizzas to the veggie one.

Exactly. I just can’t wrap my head around pizza without meat automatically equaling vegetarian pizza, or pizza for vegetarians only – and I used to be one. Erm … a vegetarian, not a pizza.

Those pizzas are "vegetarian" because vegetarians can eat them. It's as simple as that. And if there are limited amounts of vegetable/vegetarian pizza and the meat eaters eat it all the vegetarians won't get a meal.

And if we subscribe to a false hierarchy that says vegetarians get first pick of pizzas without meat I won't get a meal.  Just because I eat some meats doesn't mean I eat pepperoni or sausage pizza.

[audrey1962]

And if we subscribe to a false hierarchy that says vegetarians get first pick of pizzas without meat I won't get a meal.  Just because I eat some meats doesn't mean I eat pepperoni or sausage pizza.

Agreed. Even before I went veg, I never liked pepperoni or sausage. I was just never a big meat-eater, regardless of "labels".

[sweetonsno]

I never considered a black olive and mushroom pizza a vegeterian pizza. It's just pizza.

I agree - a pizza with, say, mushrooms, onions and green peppers is not a "vegetarian pizza", it's just a pizza with vegetable toppings. And it sounds like more people like that than the meat ones. I might try next time switching one of the meat pizzas to the veggie one.

Exactly. I just can’t wrap my head around pizza without meat automatically equaling vegetarian pizza, or pizza for vegetarians only – and I used to be one. Erm … a vegetarian, not a pizza.

Those pizzas are "vegetarian" because vegetarians can eat them. It's as simple as that. And if there are limited amounts of vegetable/vegetarian pizza and the meat eaters eat it all the vegetarians won't get a meal.
[/quote

And if we subscribe to a false hierarchy that says vegetarians get first pick of pizzas without meat I won't get a meal.  Just because I eat some meats doesn't mean I eat pepperoni or sausage pizza.

I imagine that you mention this preference when you order, right? I really don't think the issue with the pizza is so much the vegetarian vs. non-vegetarian thing but that people sometimes ask for one thing but take another, leaving the person who asked for it without anything. I know that the original question was about vegetarianism, but it could go for any other restriction or preference.

Let's your office was ordering pizzas and ten asked for pepperoni and you and one other asked for barbecue chicken. Your PM orders 4 pepperoni pizzas and 1 chicken pizza. I think you and the other person who ordered barbecue chicken should have first crack at it. The people who asked for pepperoni should take the pepperoni first.

Heck, we could even make them all vegetarian pizzas. Ten people ask for mushroom pizza because they love mushrooms and two ask for pineapple because they loathe mushrooms. The mushroom lovers should take the mushroom pizza that they asked for instead of taking the pineapple pizza that was ordered for someone else. The pineapple people would have every right to be annoyed if they arrived to lunch and found only mushroom pizza while the people who had requested the mushroom pizza were chowing down on pineapple.

Crud. Now I want pineapple pizza.

[Yvaine]

But we're talking about offices where, instead of asking what people want or responding to what they actually eat, they buy (for example) 1 green pepper and mushroom pizza "for the vegetarians" and 3 pepperoni pizzas "for everybody else" even though the omnivores have made it clear they don't really want the pepperoni either. There's just no sense in keeping ordering just one veggie and a zillion meat if the group would prefer, say, 3 veggie and 1 meat.

[WillyNilly]

Sometimes the problem with the pizza issue is how its worded too.
Lets say Alice is doing the ordering so she sends out an email or walks around and does a quick poll "would you prefer muchroom pizza or pepperoni pizza?" She asks like this because perhaps thats what she is used to or what her boss had suggested, or some other random reason. She gets 16 answers, of 8 and 8.
But then 17th person says "hmmm actually can you just order a plain cheese pie I really don't care for either." So now persons 18, 19 and 20 are asked "would you prefer mushroom, pepperoni  or plain cheese pizza?" and finds out 2 like both toppins and one peson also prefers plain cheese. Based on her answers she order 2 mushroom, 2 pepperoni and 1 cheese.
When they arrive the first 8 people - all of whom actually prefer plain cheese but didn't have it offered as an option and didn't think to ask to add a third option, see the cheese pie and each grab a piece, thus leaving 4 pies (all mushroom or pepperoni) untouched and person's 17 and 19 who asked for the plain have none...

Its not that those 8 people lied when they pizza they preferred, its that they weren't given the full gamut of options. They picked which of the two they liked better, not what kind of pizza they liked best in the whole world, or even which they liked best out of the options that were actually ordered.

Sometimes its also worded "would you eat pepperoni if it was ordered?" instead of what pizza do you like. Some people might eat pepperoni over nothing, so if they are led to believe only pepperoni is being ordered, yes they would eat some, but that doesn't mean if assorted toppings are ordered they would still choose pepperoni. For example I hate black olives. But I love pizza. If the only pizza available has olives I will pick them off, so I will eat a pie with black olives on it. But if there is a pie without olives I'd rather that, because its a hassle to pick the olives off. If someone were ordering and were trying to justify a pie with olives on it (say they were the only one who asked for olives) they might not be clear that there were other options available - its not olive pizza or nothing.

It would be a wonderful world if everyone was a clear and consistent communicator, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

[Sharnita]

As far as the hot dog bar, we were at one. My sister who is not begetatian but who was pregnant took a vegetarian hot dog because it doesn't have many of the thongs she was trying to avoid. Seems entirely valid to me. I think it is probably unwise to make assumptions about who rates in the "deserving"  category.

[ladyknight1]

I think our next pizza order will be 3 vegetable, 3 cheese and 3 meat topping pizzas.