Author Topic: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians  (Read 21724 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sweetonsno

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1429
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #195 on: October 03, 2013, 06:27:43 PM »
Sometimes the problem with the pizza issue is how its worded too.
Lets say Alice is doing the ordering so she sends out an email or walks around and does a quick poll "would you prefer muchroom pizza or pepperoni pizza?" She asks like this because perhaps thats what she is used to or what her boss had suggested, or some other random reason. She gets 16 answers, of 8 and 8.
But then 17th person says "hmmm actually can you just order a plain cheese pie I really don't care for either." So now persons 18, 19 and 20 are asked "would you prefer mushroom, pepperoni  or plain cheese pizza?" and finds out 2 like both toppins and one peson also prefers plain cheese. Based on her answers she order 2 mushroom, 2 pepperoni and 1 cheese.
When they arrive the first 8 people - all of whom actually prefer plain cheese but didn't have it offered as an option and didn't think to ask to add a third option, see the cheese pie and each grab a piece, thus leaving 4 pies (all mushroom or pepperoni) untouched and person's 17 and 19 who asked for the plain have none...

Its not that those 8 people lied when they pizza they preferred, its that they weren't given the full gamut of options. They picked which of the two they liked better, not what kind of pizza they liked best in the whole world, or even which they liked best out of the options that were actually ordered.

Sometimes its also worded "would you eat pepperoni if it was ordered?" instead of what pizza do you like. Some people might eat pepperoni over nothing, so if they are led to believe only pepperoni is being ordered, yes they would eat some, but that doesn't mean if assorted toppings are ordered they would still choose pepperoni. For example I hate black olives. But I love pizza. If the only pizza available has olives I will pick them off, so I will eat a pie with black olives on it. But if there is a pie without olives I'd rather that, because its a hassle to pick the olives off. If someone were ordering and were trying to justify a pie with olives on it (say they were the only one who asked for olives) they might not be clear that there were other options available - its not olive pizza or nothing.

It would be a wonderful world if everyone was a clear and consistent communicator, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

I do agree that it's better to leave it open-ended when taking orders, but I still think it's iffy to ask for one thing and take another. Take, for instance, a catered sales presentation I once attended. There were two choices offered on the invitation (for the sake of discussion, let's say beef or fish). However, if you called the venue, you could get an alternate that was vegetarian, kosher, gluten-free, etc. At this event, at least one diner who had ordered the beef changed her mind and snagged someone else's risotto. Luckily, the caterers had brought enough that nobody went hungry. However, I really can't get behind what that guest did.

People with dietary restrictions sometimes do a little extra work to make sure that they can be accommodated (or make alternate arrangements if they cannot). It may mean asking the waitress what kind of stock the soup has, or whether the pastry is made with lard, or if the dressing has soy sauce in it. It may mean asking for a substitution. It may mean finding out if there are any off-menu options for them. I guess I don't see why a person who just happens to like the veggie pizza better than the meat lover's (but who isn't non-vegetarian/kosher/sensitive to nitrates) shouldn't be expected to ask the person ordering whether they can get a veggie option while the person who has a religious/ethical/health reason for wanting to pass on the meat lover's is.

I guess my point is that if someone else has gone to the trouble of making special arrangements for themselves in a situation, they should be able to benefit from it. Now, if the person who doesn't like pepperoni doesn't show up until half an hour after the food has been served, I'm less sympathetic if the cheese pizza has all been eaten. But I do think that they should have first crack at it. If someone really wanted the veggie pizza but didn't ask for them, then I do think they need to wait until the people who arranged for it eat first.

EllenS

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1696
  • I write whimsical vintage mysteries.
    • My Author Page:
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #196 on: October 03, 2013, 06:36:58 PM »
As far as the hot dog bar, we were at one. My sister who is not begetatian but who was pregnant took a vegetarian hot dog because it doesn't have many of the thongs she was trying to avoid. Seems entirely valid to me. I think it is probably unwise to make assumptions about who rates in the "deserving"  category.

Snicker.  I also tried to avoid thongs when I was pregnant. As I do to this day. 
......................................................................
                www.ellenseltz.com
......................................................................


Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6784
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #197 on: October 03, 2013, 06:51:51 PM »
As far as the hot dog bar, we were at one. My sister who is not begetatian but who was pregnant took a vegetarian hot dog because it doesn't have many of the thongs she was trying to avoid. Seems entirely valid to me. I think it is probably unwise to make assumptions about who rates in the "deserving"  category.

Snicker.  I also tried to avoid thongs when I was pregnant. As I do to this day.
See I gave a pass on thongs but I'm still trying to figure out begetatian. At first I thought it might be a term for a pregnant vegetarian who decided to introduce beef to their diet during pregnancy to increase protein and iron.

But is it a typo too?

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9085
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #198 on: October 03, 2013, 06:57:55 PM »
As far as the hot dog bar, we were at one. My sister who is not begetatian but who was pregnant took a vegetarian hot dog because it doesn't have many of the thongs she was trying to avoid. Seems entirely valid to me. I think it is probably unwise to make assumptions about who rates in the "deserving"  category.

Snicker.  I also tried to avoid thongs when I was pregnant. As I do to this day.
See I gave a pass on thongs but I'm still trying to figure out begetatian. At first I thought it might be a term for a pregnant vegetarian who decided to introduce beef to their diet during pregnancy to increase protein and iron.

But is it a typo too?

Well, begetting and pregnancy do go together.  >:D

LadyR

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1023
    • Musings of A Pinterest Mom
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #199 on: October 03, 2013, 08:05:24 PM »
I think my issue with this idea is I can't imagine hosting a party where I didn't know my guests well. At the hot dog bar party there was a dozen people all together and I knew with certainty that most of them would never, ever eat a meat substitute. One occasionaly does, but she also likes regular hot dogs. That left the two vegetarians. If it had been an occasion where a guest was brunging someone i didn't know, I'd have bought the large pack of hot dogs.

Generally, i avoid meat substitutes and just go for meat-free options when i host parties. When I did tacos a few months ago, I provided a black bean and corn filling for the vegtarians, the thiught of meat subsitute never occured to me, but for something like a hot dog bar, I thiught a substitute was appropriate.

So i stick by my answer that it is not rude to only provide enough for a few guests, if you know your guests well. If you are at all uncertain, then it is polite to ahve some extras, but I don't think you have to have enough for every single person to have one.


baglady

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4661
  • A big lass and a bonny lass and she loves her beer
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #200 on: October 03, 2013, 09:01:09 PM »
After 14 pages, my conclusion is, "It depends."

I have a pretty good handle on who in my circle is vegetarian/vegan/lactose intolerant/gluten intolerant/keeps kosher, etc. As a guest, if I saw a small plate of veggie burgers or gluten-free cookies on an otherwise well-stocked buffet table, I'd instinctively pass them by because I knew they were for someone who needed them.

But that might not have been the case in the party OP describes. Sometimes at large parties a vegetarian option is offered without specific people in mind -- it's more of a "just in case anyone prefers not to eat meat" situation. These "anyones" can be committed vegetarians, people who are thinking about going vegetarian and see an opportunity to sample veggie burgers, people who have just been told by the doctor to cut back on meat, or people who simply don't feel like eating meat that day. Unless the guests all know each other very well, or there is a "reserved for ___" sign on the ___ food, they can't be expected to know that a certain food is for certain people only.

Ideally, every guest should be able to eat his or her fill of whatever s/he likes/is able to eat. But that isn't always the case in real life. Guests with food issues or preferences need to take some responsibility and make some choices. If you're vegetarian and invited to a pig roast, you can decline the invitation, eat beforehand and come for dessert, eat afterward, fill up on sides, or offer to bring something. I'm on Atkins and have left a few potlucks with a less-than-full stomach because so many of the contributions were starch-based. It happens.

All of the above presumes we're talking about a casual party/cookout/buffet/potluck, not a sit-down dinner party.
My photography is on Redbubble! Come see: http://www.redbubble.com/people/baglady

LifeOnPluto

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6776
    • Blog
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #201 on: October 03, 2013, 11:51:25 PM »
I host BBQs quite a lot. The ratio of omnivore friends to vegetarian friends is about 4:1.

So I accordingly buy 4:1 ratios of meat versus meat-substitute products*. With a few extra meat-substitute products. I do NOT buy 50:50 ratios.

Why do I do this? Because I assume that my omvivore friends will - at the BBQ - prefer to eat the proper meat products, rather than the meat substitutes. I don't think this is an "interesting assumption". Nor do I consider myself rude for not buying enough meat-substitute products on the (extremely unlikely) off-chance that the omnivores would suddenly prefer them over the meat products.

And if the Extremely Unlikely Off-Chance did occur, and all the omnivores "wanted to try" a meat substitute product (as happened in the OP) rather than eat the normal meat, you can bet your boots I (as the hostess) would say something. Eg "Hey guys, just so you're aware, we only have a limited number of those veggie sausages. Can you make sure there's a few left for Sally and Jim?"

I have a responsibility to ensure that all my guests are fed, not just the omnivores.


*I'm talking about actual meat substitutes like veggie sausages, not meat-free sides like bread and salad.

lowspark

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4165
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #202 on: October 04, 2013, 08:44:25 AM »
I do agree that it's better to leave it open-ended when taking orders, but I still think it's iffy to ask for one thing and take another. Take, for instance, a catered sales presentation I once attended. There were two choices offered on the invitation (for the sake of discussion, let's say beef or fish). However, if you called the venue, you could get an alternate that was vegetarian, kosher, gluten-free, etc. At this event, at least one diner who had ordered the beef changed her mind and snagged someone else's risotto. Luckily, the caterers had brought enough that nobody went hungry. However, I really can't get behind what that guest did.

Actually, luck had nothing to do with it. Instead I would say that these caterers knew their business and knew that regardless of what had been ordered, there would inevitably be some people who would be tempted by something at the dinner that they hadn't ordered. It's human nature. Asking me today what I want to eat a week from now is fine, but don't be surprised if I change my mind on the day. And that's how a good host figures it. It's never wrong to have too much food at a party. The thought of running out of something that someone still wants is abhorent to me as a host. Even the more expensive options. Either I can afford to supply plenty of everything or I do something different.

lowspark

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4165
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #203 on: October 04, 2013, 08:52:37 AM »
In the case of the pizzas being ordered in a work scenario, the solution is obvious. Order extras. If 8 people want meat and 8 people want mushroom and 3 people want cheese, does that mean we only order five pies? Why not order seven? Yeah, there will be leftovers, but again, it's way better to have leftovers than to run out.

I've been in several different situation where lots of people are going to be eating pizza ordered by one supplier. At the office or at an industry function for example. There is always an overabundance of pies. They pick a few different kinds of pizza and order a bunch of each. Sure there are leftovers. But no one gets short changed.

It's really the same thing that's been said over and over again. Make sure to have enough of each item that everyone can partake without anything running out. It's a very simple answer.

Sophia

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 11825
  • xi
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #204 on: October 04, 2013, 09:02:54 AM »
This has been an interesting thread because it would have never occurred to me that a meat-eater might voluntarily eat a veggie burger or veggie sausage.  I've tried a bite of them when a veggie was trying to convert me and I thought they both pretty disgusting.  So, if I were hosting and providing meat substitutes, I would count the number of veggie guests.  Figure out how much they might eat, round up slightly, and buy that much.   

For accidentally veggie dishes like mushrooms, I would assume the 'market' was everyone and buy accordingly. 

LadyL

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2907
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #205 on: October 04, 2013, 09:12:28 AM »
This has been an interesting thread because it would have never occurred to me that a meat-eater might voluntarily eat a veggie burger or veggie sausage.  I've tried a bite of them when a veggie was trying to convert me and I thought they both pretty disgusting.  So, if I were hosting and providing meat substitutes, I would count the number of veggie guests.  Figure out how much they might eat, round up slightly, and buy that much.   

For accidentally veggie dishes like mushrooms, I would assume the 'market' was everyone and buy accordingly.

It seems equally preposterous to me that there are meat eaters who shun all "vegetarian" food! I think it might be somewhat a regional thing? I don't know.

I'm guessing the meat substitutes you tried were store bought ones? Where I live most restaurants have at least 1-3 veggie or vegan options. I've seen some creative and delicious veggie burgers - one had chunks of avocado in it. I get ones from the meat market (somewhat ironically) that they make out of corn, carrots, squash, and other veggies that are very tasty, you bake them in the oven and they are crisp on the edges and softer in the middle. I think the key is embracing that it's a veggie patty, not trying to make it "fake meat." I know some vegetarians who hate all "fake meat" themselves.

Yvaine

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9085
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #206 on: October 04, 2013, 09:15:03 AM »
This has been an interesting thread because it would have never occurred to me that a meat-eater might voluntarily eat a veggie burger or veggie sausage.  I've tried a bite of them when a veggie was trying to convert me and I thought they both pretty disgusting.  So, if I were hosting and providing meat substitutes, I would count the number of veggie guests.  Figure out how much they might eat, round up slightly, and buy that much.   

For accidentally veggie dishes like mushrooms, I would assume the 'market' was everyone and buy accordingly.

It seems equally preposterous to me that there are meat eaters who shun all "vegetarian" food! I think it might be somewhat a regional thing? I don't know.

I'm guessing the meat substitutes you tried were store bought ones? Where I live most restaurants have at least 1-3 veggie or vegan options. I've seen some creative and delicious veggie burgers - one had chunks of avocado in it. I get ones from the meat market (somewhat ironically) that they make out of corn, carrots, squash, and other veggies that are very tasty, you bake them in the oven and they are crisp on the edges and softer in the middle. I think the key is embracing that it's a veggie patty, not trying to make it "fake meat." I know some vegetarians who hate all "fake meat" themselves.

I've heard really great things about black bean burgers.

And with pizza, pizza with lots of veggies can be amazing; there's a lot of flavor and texture, and it's also visually enticing when you open up the box and see it--all those colors! Green peppers, red onions, black olives...I'm making myself hungry! :D

MindsEye

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1167
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #207 on: October 04, 2013, 09:20:41 AM »
This has been an interesting thread because it would have never occurred to me that a meat-eater might voluntarily eat a veggie burger or veggie sausage.  I've tried a bite of them when a veggie was trying to convert me and I thought they both pretty disgusting.  So, if I were hosting and providing meat substitutes, I would count the number of veggie guests.  Figure out how much they might eat, round up slightly, and buy that much.   

Heh.  Now, I love a good burger... emphasis on "good".  But I am choosy about my meat.  I won't eat low quality meat.  And frankly a lot of the generic meat burger patties are pretty bottom-shelf quality and have a lot of what I consider questionable additives.  So given the choice of that or the garden (or black bean) burger, I will go with the garden burger every time. 

Just because someone eats meat, doesn't mean that they eat meat exclusively, or that they always have to go with the meat option. 

Sophia

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 11825
  • xi
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #208 on: October 04, 2013, 09:28:25 AM »
...and that is why this thread is so interesting. 
I was raised that it was positively a sin to run out of any major item when hosting.  I could see myself being the host of the party where the meat substitutes ran out.  And being mortified.  So, I now know to round up to a greater amount. 

Zilla

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6506
    • Cooking
Re: S/0 taking food for kids: taking food for vegetarians
« Reply #209 on: October 04, 2013, 09:36:55 AM »
...and that is why this thread is so interesting. 
I was raised that it was positively a sin to run out of any major item when hosting.  I could see myself being the host of the party where the meat substitutes ran out.  And being mortified.  So, I now know to round up to a greater amount.


Or again, just place it out of the main area and direct the vegetarians to it as it can be pricey as others noted. 


And ditto to not liking most burgers as I am "snobby" about my meat too. Plus for some reason a lot of the lesser quality meat gives me stomach pains for a couple of days.  I would instead fill up on the sides or alternatives if they are on the main buffet.