Author Topic: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop  (Read 7778 times)

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Luci

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2013, 09:37:48 PM »
Water glasses need to be put into the sink on on the nightstand for the night. (I am Sheldon's great aunt that he doesn't know about). Anything else:

My computer, my problem. If I left it on the deck and it rained that night, or had a heavy dew, or the local raccoon damaged it, would I  blame the homeowner? The renter was warned about the cat.

This is one of the 1567 reasons I don't have a cat - but if I succumbed and fell in love, :-* , I would still control my own habits - cats are REALLY hard to control and even if we don't realize it, the____cat____is_____ boss. Needy, but still____ boss. We trained our dog, but still adjusted to her needs, as we would adjust to the cat's peculiarities.

Computers "sit", "stay", "be safe" quite nicely. (The electronics inside are another matter.) Cats don't.

Control the computer and the area around it. How hard is that?

Two Ravens

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2013, 10:22:05 PM »
This is one of the 1567 reasons I don't have a cat - but if I succumbed and fell in love, :-* , I would still control my own habits - cats are REALLY hard to control and even if we don't realize it, the____cat____is_____ boss. Needy, but still____ boss. We trained our dog, but still adjusted to her needs, as we would adjust to the cat's peculiarities.

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.  ;)

Luci

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2013, 10:24:46 PM »
This is one of the 1567 reasons I don't have a cat - but if I succumbed and fell in love, :-* , I would still control my own habits - cats are REALLY hard to control and even if we don't realize it, the____cat____is_____ boss. Needy, but still____ boss. We trained our dog, but still adjusted to her needs, as we would adjust to the cat's peculiarities.

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.  ;)

 :)  :D  ;D   

TootsNYC

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2013, 11:03:00 PM »
When cats knock things over, they're not *always* being jerks.

Sometimes they're playing the Gravity Game.

Owly

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2013, 11:10:41 PM »
It wasn't the cat that damaged the laptop -- it was glass of water that was left next to it. Whoever left the water there is responsible.

This is where I stand. In many homes the proper place for a laptop to be left overnight is in the living room. In almost no homes, and certainly from the sound of the letter not in that home, is the living room the proper place for a glass of water to be left overnight. The problem wasn't the cat, or where the laptop was, the problem was the glass of water being left where it should not have been left.

Same here. If the roommate left both the laptop and the water sitting out, then I don't see how you can hold the cat owner responsible.

CluelessBride

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2013, 12:02:28 AM »
From the letter:
Quote
While Iím sympathetic, I was up front about this issue before she even moved in, and we had a verbal agreement that we would clean up after ourselves to avoid potential issues like this

I think this is really important. The CatOwner didn't just warn LaptopOwner about the cat's tendency to knock things over, they had a verbal agreement to clean up after themselves so that the cat didn't have things to knock over. LaptopOwner broke the rule, so the consequences are on her. 

An analogy would be two roommates that have a "no colored liquids in the living room" rule. If roommate 1 has a glass of red wine sitting on the end table next to the couch and roommate 2 bumps the table spilling the wine on the couch, I think that roommate 1 is responsible for the mess (and paying for any cleaning/replacement bill) because she broke the colored liquids rule. In the absence of the rule, I would think roommate 2 was responsible.

blarg314

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2013, 12:51:40 AM »
I would say that the roommate should bear the total cost of the repairs, full stop.

Roommate was warned before moving in that they specifically shouldn't leave glasses of liquid unattended, because of the cat. They agreed to this in advance of moving in. They then left a glass of liquid, unattended for a long period of time, right next to their pricy, submerging in liquid voids the warranty electronics. The fact that liquid got spilled on it was a logical and not at all surprising result.

In general, I would say that the person who was responsible for the liquid/electronic combination should be responsible for repairs. So if someone had their laptop sitting out, and someone else put a full glass of water next to it and left it unattended, the person who put the water out would be responsible. But if someone left a glass of water out, and someone else came up and put their iPhone next to the water and wandered off, the person who left the iPhone would be responsible. On the other hand, if you leave your iPad on the kitchen counter and water gets splashed on it then it's your own fault, for leaving the iPad in the middle of a splashy area of the house.


sweetonsno

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2013, 01:31:50 AM »
While I think it would be gracious for the letter writer to offer to pay half, I don't think she should be obligated to take care of the damage.

I kind of like blarg314's take that the cat doesn't really matter. Putting water near an expensive electronic device is a pretty bad idea, especially if you're going to leave it unattended. Even a house without a cat is probably subject to other things that can shake tables... large trucks driving past, earthquakes, UFOs, slamming doors, etc.

That said, the roommate was not only warned about the cat's tendency to knock over glasses, but agreed to not leave them out because of it. He acknowledged the fact that there was a heightened risk of water glasses tipping over and said that he would do what he could to mitigate it. He didn't.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2013, 01:56:53 AM »
I would say that the roommate should bear the total cost of the repairs, full stop.

Roommate was warned before moving in that they specifically shouldn't leave glasses of liquid unattended, because of the cat. They agreed to this in advance of moving in. They then left a glass of liquid, unattended for a long period of time, right next to their pricy, submerging in liquid voids the warranty electronics. The fact that liquid got spilled on it was a logical and not at all surprising result.

In general, I would say that the person who was responsible for the liquid/electronic combination should be responsible for repairs. So if someone had their laptop sitting out, and someone else put a full glass of water next to it and left it unattended, the person who put the water out would be responsible. But if someone left a glass of water out, and someone else came up and put their iPhone next to the water and wandered off, the person who left the iPhone would be responsible. On the other hand, if you leave your iPad on the kitchen counter and water gets splashed on it then it's your own fault, for leaving the iPad in the middle of a splashy area of the house.

I agree with everything that Blarg has said. In this particular case, the room-mate should be responsible for the costs of their damaged laptop.

Another thought: it is far easier to tip out a glass of water than it is to control a cat. So I think expecting the cat-owner to "control their cat" or keep it out of common areas is a tad unreasonable.

SoCalVal

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2013, 02:04:36 AM »
My response is this:

1)  Both laptop and glass of water are Roommate's = Roommate is 100% responsible.

2)  Laptop was there first and then LW glass of water was there = LW is 100% responsible.

3)  LW glass of water was there first then laptop was placed next to glass of water = Roommate is 100% responsible.

I don't leave unattended liquids next to my netbook ever.  Whenever I get up to leave the room, even for just a moment, I take whatever liquid I have near my netbook and move it to another table.  Even though I am completely alone, I have no idea if, maybe, the table is going to collapse or some natural disaster is going to hit so I expect it could always be possible to spill the liquid on my netbook if it should be right next to my netbook.  I expect Roommate to understand this and never leave an open glass of liquid next to her laptop, cat or not.



Miss Unleaded

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2013, 04:29:47 AM »
How hard is it to teach a cat? I've never owned one, but had friends and family who have trained cats not to continually knock things over or stand on kitchen counters. I would be more sympathetic if a cat owner was trying to train a cat, but so far unsuccessful rather than just saying that glasses of water could never be out.

I think it's pretty tough to train a cat.  I have my cats trained not to jump up on the benches and tables in the kitchen.  The reality is that I just trained them not to do it while I'm around. Actually, they've had better success training me than I them.   ;)

Quote
I don't think leaving out a glass of plain water overnight is strange or wrong, and depending on how long I'd been in a house with a glass tipping cat, I may not think to get rid of it. Not to mention since the glass was left overnight, the cat owner could have checked the house before bed and got rid of it, or kept the cat in their room at night. They left the cat out with free reign to get into stuff. I think the cat owner shares half the blame, not all, but half.

I think it's pretty negligent to leave a glass of water next to a laptop.  Even if there was no cat, the probability that someone would accidentally knock it over is quite high.  So I think roommate is 100% responsible for the cost.

Years ago when contact lenses were very expensive, I lived with a friend who had two young daughters (around 3 and 5).  One morning I walked into the bathroom to find that they had opened up my contact lens case and washed them down the drain.  They'd climbed up on the bathroom sink and got them out of the medicine cabinet.  Clearly I underestimated the agility of young kids.  :D The lenses cost around $200 and I'd only had them a couple of weeks.  I was pretty miffed at the time, especially as friend didn't even volunteer to help cover the cost of a replacement.  But after I got over it I realised that if I don't take care to protect my property it's really on me if it gets damaged.

veryfluffy

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2013, 05:53:18 AM »

Years ago when contact lenses were very expensive, I lived with a friend who had two young daughters (around 3 and 5).  One morning I walked into the bathroom to find that they had opened up my contact lens case and washed them down the drain.  They'd climbed up on the bathroom sink and got them out of the medicine cabinet.  Clearly I underestimated the agility of young kids.  :D The lenses cost around $200 and I'd only had them a couple of weeks.  I was pretty miffed at the time, especially as friend didn't even volunteer to help cover the cost of a replacement.  But after I got over it I realised that if I don't take care to protect my property it's really on me if it gets damaged.

Seriously? In this case I would say that your friend was 100% responsible for replacing your contact lenses. You stored them responsibly. Her children went where they should not have been, opened your things, and destroyed them. Children aged 3 and 5 are, unlike cats, able to be instructed. They can also be supervised when they are in your home (you said "friend", not roommate, so I am understanding the children did not live there). Absolutely your friend was responsible for her children destroying your property.
   

squeakers

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2013, 06:24:42 AM »

Years ago when contact lenses were very expensive, I lived with a friend who had two young daughters (around 3 and 5).  One morning I walked into the bathroom to find that they had opened up my contact lens case and washed them down the drain.  They'd climbed up on the bathroom sink and got them out of the medicine cabinet.  Clearly I underestimated the agility of young kids.  :D The lenses cost around $200 and I'd only had them a couple of weeks.  I was pretty miffed at the time, especially as friend didn't even volunteer to help cover the cost of a replacement.  But after I got over it I realised that if I don't take care to protect my property it's really on me if it gets damaged.

Seriously? In this case I would say that your friend was 100% responsible for replacing your contact lenses. You stored them responsibly. Her children went where they should not have been, opened your things, and destroyed them. Children aged 3 and 5 are, unlike cats, able to be instructed. They can also be supervised when they are in your home (you said "friend", not roommate, so I am understanding the children did not live there). Absolutely your friend was responsible for her children destroying your property.

*Shrug* We had all our boys home one winter day because there was an ice storm. Yay! We both got to sleep in!

Until we were woken to some strange pounding sound.

The 2 older boys (something like 9 and 6) had taken the baby (3) outside to play in the glorious sunshine.  And decided to help Dad out by removing the sheets of ice off the vehicles. Using hammers.

Our only pristine used car.... had multiple hammer bang marks on its trunk.  The other vehicles.. *shrug".

The boys were hollered into the house.  I told them I appreciated they had put a snowsuit on the baby.  And kept dad from tearing them a new one because it was _our_ fault for not hearing them deciding to go outside instead of watching TV.

As the parent I would have replaced the contact lenses. Because what my kids do reflect on me.

If they had been mine... it would have been a learning experience.

But... we kept anything expensive way beyond any kids reach/ability to manipulate: guns, medicines, our wedding wine glasses.

And I have shrugged off and made hubby shrug off other things kids have done (ours and family/friends' kids) over the years because... kids just don't get/know.  And some parents don't and making them is beyond pushing a rock up a hill.
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flickan

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2013, 06:34:51 AM »
How hard is it to teach a cat? I've never owned one, but had friends and family who have trained cats not to continually knock things over or stand on kitchen counters. I would be more sympathetic if a cat owner was trying to train a cat, but so far unsuccessful rather than just saying that glasses of water could never be out.

I've lived with both cats and dogs my entire life.  I'd say 90% of what you train your cat to do is actually what you train your cat to do when you're observing it.  Positive reinforcement is difficult in an animal that, unlike a dog, does not crave approval.  So while I can believe someone has trained a cat to stop knocking things over while they were in the room I'd be very surprised to hear about a cat that has stopped knocking things over entirely.  It is in the personality of some cats to encounter anything they can push as a toy.  Cats aren't untrainable but they do have motivations that are beyond us and getting to the root of them is difficult.  Conditioning them to accept routine is easy.  Predicting their response to new stimuli in their environment is impossible.  I like to think of it as them living in a perpetual state of human infanthood because no matter how many times you take away the thing baby wants to put in her mouth baby will still put it in her mouth if can get to it.  Therefore you put away the things you don't want baby to put in her mouth.  Dogs are more like young children in their habits, all the mischief is tempered by an underlying desire to please and basic understanding of consequences.  They don't just hear the word "no", they have a compelling reason to obey it.

For this reason I agree with those who say the cat owner is not the responsible party.  Think of the cat as a force of nature.  You can put on a jacket when the wind is blowing but you can't stop the wind from blowing. 

squeakers

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Re: Thatz Not Okay: damaged laptop
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2013, 06:38:48 AM »
How hard is it to teach a cat? I've never owned one, but had friends and family who have trained cats not to continually knock things over or stand on kitchen counters. I would be more sympathetic if a cat owner was trying to train a cat, but so far unsuccessful rather than just saying that glasses of water could never be out.

I've lived with both cats and dogs my entire life.  I'd say 90% of what you train your cat to do is actually what you train your cat to do when you're observing it.  Positive reinforcement is difficult in an animal that, unlike a dog, does not crave approval.  So while I can believe someone has trained a cat to stop knocking things over while they were in the room I'd be very surprised to hear about a cat that has stopped knocking things over entirely.  It is in the personality of some cats to encounter anything they can push as a toy.  Cats aren't untrainable but they do have motivations that are beyond us and getting to the root of them is difficult.  Conditioning them to accept routine is easy.  Predicting their response to new stimuli in their environment is impossible.  I like to think of it as them living in a perpetual state of human infanthood because no matter how many times you take away the thing baby wants to put in her mouth baby will still put it in her mouth if can get to it.  Therefore you put away the things you don't want baby to put in her mouth.  Dogs are more like young children in their habits, all the mischief is tempered by an underlying desire to please and basic understanding of consequences.  They don't just hear the word "no", they have a compelling reason to obey it.

For this reason I agree with those who say the cat owner is not the responsible party.  Think of the cat as a force of nature.  You can put on a jacket when the wind is blowing but you can't stop the wind from blowing.

This.

Cockatoos are like dogs and cats: like dogs they crave interaction and approval, like cats they will do what they want when they want.

Some kids are cats and some kids are dogs.  Raising them both brings different challenges :)
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