Author Topic: Kill me now. Or: Being polite to people who drive you up the wall: Update #14  (Read 5969 times)

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blarg314

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If she's talking or annoying you while the rehearsal is in session, I think showing annoyance/smacking her down is appropriate. Tell her once, outside of practice, that when you're rehearsing you concentrate on the rehearsal, and won't carry on a conversation. Then, when she tries it, she gets the glare of death, followed by being ignored, and a more irate version of your first conversation after the rehearsal.

I've been in various choirs and bands - talking when the conductor is speaking, or chatting when other sections are rehearsing is incredibly rude, and very disrespectful for all concerned.


Free Range Hippy Chick

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I like the one I've read on here of 'you do realise you said that out loud?' for particularly rude/stupid comments.

Regarding the wittering on and on, I agree with blarg314 to tell her once not to try to converse during rehearsal, but you could maybe word it as 'Just so you know, maybe it wasn't the same in your last ensemble, but in the ones here, it's considered ill-mannered to talk when the conductor is giving instruction either to us or to the other sections.' The clause 'and you should know that, you total muppet' may be added inside your head, but should not pass your lips. It isn't rude if you only think it.

perpetua

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I like the one I've read on here of 'you do realise you said that out loud?' for particularly rude/stupid comments.

Yes, that's actually the one I've got filed away for future use because I *know* I'm going to have to say it at some point.

I did actually manage to use something somewhat EH approved on her last night: a "Yes, I believe you told me that last time" while she was telling me unsolicited stuff about some of her equipment again. It did work and she backed down.

I can't believe she tried to correct the chair like that in front of everyone. Especially since the information she had wasn't even correct. Some people  ::)

peach2play

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It is not rude to be blunt.  You are not responsible for her feelings.  Just because something hurts someone's feelings does not make it rude.  She behaves this way because no one has called her on her behavior before.  You do it politely, with grace, but saying, "Please do not crowd my stand." is not rude.  It's polishing your spine. 

m2kbug

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I don't think any of the people who chimed in to correct Sandy were rude at all.  Sandy sounds like an individual who will have to have it very clearly pointed out it's time to stop talking because right now we need to listen to instructions, and needs you to point out very clearly not to lean over and get into your personal space.  "Sandy, could you please not lean over, it makes me very uncomfortable."  "I'm trying to listen to the instructions, would you please be quiet."  At this point, I may also bring this up to the person in charge, the conductor, to help in managing her behavior.  It may start out as her being rather over enthusiastic and chatty, where everyone is just putting up with it with the hopes that she'd settle down and learn the ropes, but it looks like this isn't going to happen and someone needs to open their mouth and directly and clearly point things out. 

TootsNYC

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I have this theory (so, not in the least credible) that people like Sally, who crowd conversations, crowd the music stand, etc., are instinctually trying to establish their territory. I don't think it's at all thought out or calculated.

But that's what they're doing. They're establishing this place, this person, this organization, as "their turf." I think we all do it (which is where this theory came from--I've observed myself doing just that); just some of us are more skilled than others. Some of us are more (or less) hesitant.

And it's appropriate to send some messages back.

m2kbug

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I have this theory (so, not in the least credible) that people like Sally, who crowd conversations, crowd the music stand, etc., are instinctually trying to establish their territory. I don't think it's at all thought out or calculated.

But that's what they're doing. They're establishing this place, this person, this organization, as "their turf." I think we all do it (which is where this theory came from--I've observed myself doing just that); just some of us are more skilled than others. Some of us are more (or less) hesitant.

And it's appropriate to send some messages back.

Interesting thought.  I see this as more insecurity.  This person needs constant attention and acknowledgement and she's very needy.  Of course there are people out there that just never really learn boundaries or recognize social cues.  It should be obvious to be quiet while someone is lecturing or giving instruction, but this person needs to be told directly that right now is quiet time so that people can hear the instruction.  She's too busy giggling and talking and drawing attention to herself, which I can see establishing her turf.  From the OP's description, she didn't come across to me as e a person who booms into a room and tries to take over, but that could be the case. 

Seraphia

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I have this theory (so, not in the least credible) that people like Sally, who crowd conversations, crowd the music stand, etc., are instinctually trying to establish their territory. I don't think it's at all thought out or calculated.

But that's what they're doing. They're establishing this place, this person, this organization, as "their turf." I think we all do it (which is where this theory came from--I've observed myself doing just that); just some of us are more skilled than others. Some of us are more (or less) hesitant.

And it's appropriate to send some messages back.

Interesting thought.  I see this as more insecurity.  This person needs constant attention and acknowledgement and she's very needy.  Of course there are people out there that just never really learn boundaries or recognize social cues.  It should be obvious to be quiet while someone is lecturing or giving instruction, but this person needs to be told directly that right now is quiet time so that people can hear the instruction.  She's too busy giggling and talking and drawing attention to herself, which I can see establishing her turf.  From the OP's description, she didn't come across to me as e a person who booms into a room and tries to take over, but that could be the case.

Could be a combination of both. After all, a secure person doesn't need to establish "Hey, hello, over here! I'm here, I'm in the room, everyone look and make sure you notice that I am here and know important stuff and am totally part of the group." An insecure person does. A secure person can focus on the 'task' of being in orchestra i.e. to play. Someone like Sandy might be so busy trying to make pals and be seen as part of the group that she is missing obvious cues like "Nobody else is talking right now."

In that case, I don't think it's rude at all to spell out what cues she's missing. It's not an insult to say "Could you please not lean over my stand? Thanks," or "We'll have to talk later, it looks like we're about to start."
Ancora Imparo - I am still learning

TootsNYC

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I have this theory (so, not in the least credible) that people like Sally, who crowd conversations, crowd the music stand, etc., are instinctually trying to establish their territory. I don't think it's at all thought out or calculated.

But that's what they're doing. They're establishing this place, this person, this organization, as "their turf." I think we all do it (which is where this theory came from--I've observed myself doing just that); just some of us are more skilled than others. Some of us are more (or less) hesitant.

And it's appropriate to send some messages back.

Interesting thought.  I see this as more insecurity.  This person needs constant attention and acknowledgement and she's very needy.  Of course there are people out there that just never really learn boundaries or recognize social cues.  It should be obvious to be quiet while someone is lecturing or giving instruction, but this person needs to be told directly that right now is quiet time so that people can hear the instruction.  She's too busy giggling and talking and drawing attention to herself, which I can see establishing her turf.  From the OP's description, she didn't come across to me as e a person who booms into a room and tries to take over, but that could be the case.

I don't see those as mutually exclusive, actually.

People whose insecurity is very low don't have as huge a need to prove to themselves that they belong. Nor do they need to sort of "take over" and "direct" things.

I see this as a subtler form of "taking over" and of "establishing that this is my turf" and "making it clear that I belong here, I'm part of the 'in' crowd" than the more obvious tactic of booming into a room or lecturing people.

But I think it's the same impulse and the same effect.