Author Topic: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad  (Read 12681 times)

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jpcher

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #135 on: October 15, 2013, 07:32:52 PM »
I'm with turnip. 100%.  ;D

MariaE

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #136 on: October 16, 2013, 12:36:55 AM »
I'll tell you easily - anyone who knows my son ( who is 6 ) well _and_ deliberately leaves an iPad within his reach is a fool.   For the most part I would probably recompensate them,  but they made an easily preventable mistake and I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. Are you saying that your 6 year old would be likely to throw the iPad as well, or merely that he'd be likely to drop it or in other ways accidentally damage it? Those are two hugely different things IMO.
 
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Virg

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #137 on: October 16, 2013, 09:50:41 AM »
turnip wrote:

"The OP does not say why the iPad was in reach of the child, so we are left to consider different possibilities.    If 100 different children throw 100 different iPads owned by 100 different nannies, I think that it is possible in 1 or 2  of the cases the Nanny shares some of the blame."

The problem with this is that you're arguing an edge case, but you stated several times that the nanny should be shouldering some of the responsibility, and those two things don't match.  If it's "possible in 1 or 2 cases" out of a hundred, then you're acknowledging that it's extremely unlikely that the nanny did something that would warrant making her pay for any of the damage, so it rings hollow for you to say "We are talking about a Nanny who possibly should have known better than to leave an iPad within easy reach of this child.We are talking about a Nanny who possibly should have known better than to leave an iPad within easy reach of this child" because that's going to cover many of the 98 or 99 cases as well.  I agree that it would be reasonable to ask the nanny to be more cautious with such things in the future, but in the face of this one example, saying, "...I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again" still strikes me as assessing too much of the blame to her.

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turnip

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #138 on: October 16, 2013, 07:37:53 PM »
turnip wrote:

"The OP does not say why the iPad was in reach of the child, so we are left to consider different possibilities.    If 100 different children throw 100 different iPads owned by 100 different nannies, I think that it is possible in 1 or 2  of the cases the Nanny shares some of the blame."

The problem with this is that you're arguing an edge case, but you stated several times that the nanny should be shouldering some of the responsibility, and those two things don't match.  If it's "possible in 1 or 2 cases" out of a hundred, then you're acknowledging that it's extremely unlikely that the nanny did something that would warrant making her pay for any of the damage, so it rings hollow for you to say "We are talking about a Nanny who possibly should have known better than to leave an iPad within easy reach of this child.We are talking about a Nanny who possibly should have known better than to leave an iPad within easy reach of this child" because that's going to cover many of the 98 or 99 cases as well.  I agree that it would be reasonable to ask the nanny to be more cautious with such things in the future, but in the face of this one example, saying, "...I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again" still strikes me as assessing too much of the blame to her.

Virg

Quote
but you stated several times that the nanny should be shouldering some of the responsibility,

I've never stated that

Quote
"...I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again"

_if_ I felt she hadn't been cautious.  I don't know how many times I need use the words 'if' 'possibly' or 'maybe' to convince people that I am not taking a hard line that the nanny is 100 percent responsible for anything the child may break under any circumstances.   I think it is possible that the nanny has some responsibility.  I disagree with other posters who seem certain that regardless of the circumstances the parents should absolutely pay 100% of the replacement costs because that is what responsible parents do.



turnip

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #139 on: October 16, 2013, 07:39:03 PM »
I'll tell you easily - anyone who knows my son ( who is 6 ) well _and_ deliberately leaves an iPad within his reach is a fool.   For the most part I would probably recompensate them,  but they made an easily preventable mistake and I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. Are you saying that your 6 year old would be likely to throw the iPad as well, or merely that he'd be likely to drop it or in other ways accidentally damage it? Those are two hugely different things IMO.

Not in his mind.  He wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all.

jpcher

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #140 on: October 16, 2013, 07:48:47 PM »
I think it is possible that the nanny has some responsibility.  I disagree with other posters who seem certain that regardless of the circumstances the parents should absolutely pay 100% of the replacement costs because that is what responsible parents do.

POD. This is where I firmly stand and completely agree. In my opinion, turnip is spot-on.

MariaE

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #141 on: October 16, 2013, 09:22:29 PM »
I'll tell you easily - anyone who knows my son ( who is 6 ) well _and_ deliberately leaves an iPad within his reach is a fool.   For the most part I would probably recompensate them,  but they made an easily preventable mistake and I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. Are you saying that your 6 year old would be likely to throw the iPad as well, or merely that he'd be likely to drop it or in other ways accidentally damage it? Those are two hugely different things IMO.

Not in his mind.  He wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all.

Are there circumstances about your son that I'm just forgetting? Because I'd say that at age 6 a child is plenty old enough to tell the difference. Heck, even my 3 year old niece is old enough to tell the difference! But you may have explained, and I'm just too tired to remember.
 
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MissRose

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #142 on: October 17, 2013, 08:22:15 AM »
I knew when my sister's kids were younger to keep certain objects out of sight and reach.  They did not and do not have any behavioral issues of any kind.  They know to treat other people's items with respect and care.  Kids of preschool age can still be inquisitive at times but can be told NO do not touch this or do this even if takes a lot of repetition.

I still say Herman's parents should pay for the nanny's ipad, and ensure their son receives professional help for his problems. 

padua

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #143 on: October 17, 2013, 06:52:22 PM »
I think it is possible that the nanny has some responsibility.  I disagree with other posters who seem certain that regardless of the circumstances the parents should absolutely pay 100% of the replacement costs because that is what responsible parents do.

POD. This is where I firmly stand and completely agree. In my opinion, turnip is spot-on.

i do as well. i think it's very situational. if i left my children in the care of a sitter and when i returned home my house was in shambles and the sitter was sitting on the couch snapping bubble gum and listening to her walkman while my kids were hanging from the light fixtures and she said: "by the way," you owe me $50 for your kids drawing on my leather jacket," my inclination wouldn't be to pull out my wallet. i think in some instances you're paying someone to be responsible for your children and that individual should be responsible for what your children do while in their care. in the case of the nanny, if we had a good relationship, she is in part responsible for what my child did while in her care because that's what i'm paying her for (if she isn't keeping him from breaking things, how is she keeping him safe?). however, i'd pay for the ipad because i want to maintain an ongoing relationship with her and because i'd feel badly about it.

jpcher

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #144 on: October 17, 2013, 08:19:18 PM »
I'll tell you easily - anyone who knows my son ( who is 6 ) well _and_ deliberately leaves an iPad within his reach is a fool.   For the most part I would probably recompensate them,  but they made an easily preventable mistake and I would think carefully before leaving them alone with my child again.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here. Are you saying that your 6 year old would be likely to throw the iPad as well, or merely that he'd be likely to drop it or in other ways accidentally damage it? Those are two hugely different things IMO.

Not in his mind.  He wouldn't be able to tell the difference at all.

Are there circumstances about your son that I'm just forgetting? Because I'd say that at age 6 a child is plenty old enough to tell the difference. Heck, even my 3 year old niece is old enough to tell the difference! But you may have explained, and I'm just too tired to remember.

Earlier in this thread, Pg. 6:

OK - I have a SN child who can be destructive.  I also have a Nanny hired due to her experience with difficult kids, who I pay to watch DS.

snip

If we had a different relationship where I really felt like she had been negligent in letting my son around the iPad ( and he's a chewer too, so aside from breaking it it's not unlikely he could have started chewing on it and ended up with a mouth full of glass and electronics ) I would be more inclined to say it was entirely her responsibility to cover the replacement cost.

A nanny that is knowledgable about certain traits of the child she has in her charge (nanny was well informed of Herman's destructive behavior) should certainly be aware enough to keep her personal items out of harms way.




MariaE

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #145 on: October 18, 2013, 12:39:26 AM »
Thanks, jpcher. I wrote my last post on 4 hours' of sleep so figured I was missing something.
 
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Virg

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2013, 09:55:22 AM »
padua wrote:

"i think it's very situational. if i left my children in the care of a sitter and when i returned home my house was in shambles and the sitter was sitting on the couch snapping bubble gum and listening to her walkman while my kids were hanging from the light fixtures and she said: "by the way," you owe me $50 for your kids drawing on my leather jacket," my inclination wouldn't be to pull out my wallet."

This is part and parcel of why I disagree with your level of perceived responsibility.  Look at your own example, and consider how far out of line you had to go to prove your point.  I agree that someone who's that disconnected and neglectful wouldn't deserve reimbursement, but there's nothing in the original situation that indicates that the nanny was anywhere near this bad, and these edge cases keep getting rolled out to say that not every single situation falls to the parents.  I agree that there's never any 100% guarantee, but I'm trying to hew closely to the situation that was actually presented, and I find that the vast majority of reasonable assumptions about what happened put the responsibility for replacing the iPad squarely on Herman's parents.  I can easily create scenarios that put the blame on the nanny (she decides she wants an upgraded iPad, so she purposefully leaves it on the table and lets Herman destroy it, for example) but considering that Herman's parents trust her enough to let her take him to her home to watch, I have to assume that she's not grossly incompetent or malicious.

Virg

padua

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Re: S/O damaged laptop: The nanny and the damaged ipad
« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2013, 02:47:55 PM »
padua wrote:

"i think it's very situational. if i left my children in the care of a sitter and when i returned home my house was in shambles and the sitter was sitting on the couch snapping bubble gum and listening to her walkman while my kids were hanging from the light fixtures and she said: "by the way," you owe me $50 for your kids drawing on my leather jacket," my inclination wouldn't be to pull out my wallet."

This is part and parcel of why I disagree with your level of perceived responsibility.  Look at your own example, and consider how far out of line you had to go to prove your point.  I agree that someone who's that disconnected and neglectful wouldn't deserve reimbursement, but there's nothing in the original situation that indicates that the nanny was anywhere near this bad, and these edge cases keep getting rolled out to say that not every single situation falls to the parents.  I agree that there's never any 100% guarantee, but I'm trying to hew closely to the situation that was actually presented, and I find that the vast majority of reasonable assumptions about what happened put the responsibility for replacing the iPad squarely on Herman's parents.  I can easily create scenarios that put the blame on the nanny (she decides she wants an upgraded iPad, so she purposefully leaves it on the table and lets Herman destroy it, for example) but considering that Herman's parents trust her enough to let her take him to her home to watch, I have to assume that she's not grossly incompetent or malicious.

Virg

sorry for the confusion: i was responding to this:
"I think it is possible that the nanny has some responsibility.  I disagree with other posters who seem certain that regardless of the circumstances the parents should absolutely pay 100% of the replacement costs because that is what responsible parents do."

i was giving an extreme situation because i, too, don't believe the parents are always 100% responsible. i just wanted to illustrate that there are situations where one can place the responsiblity on the person paid to watch the child. it seems as if there are some people who feel parents should be responsible regardless of the situation and i just wanted to indicate that i disagree.