Author Topic: [Update] Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass" [update post 92]  (Read 13697 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2013, 12:47:03 PM »
The problem I had when I lived in a "destination" neighborhood, was not the idea of children coming there to TorT, but that something about the process of being "trucked in" in groups seemed to incite a mob mentality in the kids and their parents.

Part of what makes trick or treat pleasant for everyone, is the neighborliness of it - whether you are geographical neighbors at all. It is a very tiny practice of hospitality.  It is an opportunity for children to learn about knocking on doors, greeting people, saying "thank you" and waiting their turn.

When the kids were brought in in large, minimally-chaperoned groups, they felt anonymous - so there was much more pushing aside of little kids, double-dipping at the same house, surliness, yelling and demanding, and generally obnoxious and unpleasant behavior.  The grownups either were absent, or did nothing to correct their charges. Instead of exclaiming over costumes and playing along, I spent the whole time correcting, refereeing, checking that the trampled littles were OK, turning away greedy double-dippers, and fielding complaints about the quantity/quality or selection of candy.  Sometimes I even had to physically rebuff grabby hands who tried to reach over/under my arms and snatch more than they were offered.   It was very unpleasant.

This was not a class thing, as most of the kids who got trucked in were from an equal or higher socioeconomic group, they just lived in areas that were not sidewalked or well-lit, so they came to us.

Yes. I think this is really what bothers people (when it bothers them).

It's really not a class thing--I think if kids whose appearance somehow led people to believe they were from a less-well-off neighborhood were well-behaved and friendly, and "played along" with the whole game, and the "a tiny exchange of hospitality," most people would think it was actually sort of *neat* that they could provide a fun Halloween experience for them.

But when you are phenomenally slammed with volume, or when you are seeing that sort of bad behavior that comes with a mob, then you don't find it much fun anymore.

Ghosty

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2013, 06:03:17 AM »
I live in a strange area, on a corner between a very Posh area and a slightly deprived estate.
In the posh area each house has signs saying NO trick or Treat.
The families in the "poorer" area however, are out in the garden dressed up handing out bagfuls of sugary goodness.

Its not always the "good" areas that give "good" candy. Round my way you are better off in the working class areas.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2013, 10:09:35 AM »
The problem I had when I lived in a "destination" neighborhood, was not the idea of children coming there to TorT, but that something about the process of being "trucked in" in groups seemed to incite a mob mentality in the kids and their parents.

Part of what makes trick or treat pleasant for everyone, is the neighborliness of it - whether you are geographical neighbors at all. It is a very tiny practice of hospitality.  It is an opportunity for children to learn about knocking on doors, greeting people, saying "thank you" and waiting their turn.

When the kids were brought in in large, minimally-chaperoned groups, they felt anonymous - so there was much more pushing aside of little kids, double-dipping at the same house, surliness, yelling and demanding, and generally obnoxious and unpleasant behavior.  The grownups either were absent, or did nothing to correct their charges. Instead of exclaiming over costumes and playing along, I spent the whole time correcting, refereeing, checking that the trampled littles were OK, turning away greedy double-dippers, and fielding complaints about the quantity/quality or selection of candy.  Sometimes I even had to physically rebuff grabby hands who tried to reach over/under my arms and snatch more than they were offered.   It was very unpleasant.

This was not a class thing, as most of the kids who got trucked in were from an equal or higher socioeconomic group, they just lived in areas that were not sidewalked or well-lit, so they came to us.

Yes. I think this is really what bothers people (when it bothers them).

It's really not a class thing--I think if kids whose appearance somehow led people to believe they were from a less-well-off neighborhood were well-behaved and friendly, and "played along" with the whole game, and the "a tiny exchange of hospitality," most people would think it was actually sort of *neat* that they could provide a fun Halloween experience for them.

But when you are phenomenally slammed with volume, or when you are seeing that sort of bad behavior that comes with a mob, then you don't find it much fun anymore.

There is also the anonimity factor in how the kids behave. Neighborhood kids live in that neighborhood, know that truly bad behavior will be censured on the spot or have a good chance of being reported to parents. Damaging lawns or decorations is damaging their own neighbors. Not being polite will be poorly reflected onto their parents. There is also a neighborhood culture that gets established and adhered to. In our old neighborhood, toddlers would go out with their parents starting around 5pm. Older kids who still had their parents go out with them would start a little later but then those parents were back home by around 7 when the older kids would start out and the parents could then give out candy. All door bell ringing stops at 8:30. No candy wrappers thrown in the streets, no running across lawns. If a group is already at the door wait on further back instead of pushing into the existing group.

Kids coming externally don't have the same concerns nor will their parents bringing them into the neighborhood know the established neighborhood rules.

Lynn2000

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2013, 10:46:52 AM »
I can see how the person/people who put up the flyers thought perhaps it was a good idea--to me it's the classic case of only discussing something with, say, your like-minded spouse before doing it, and not running it by anyone else. For some reason I picture a couple as being behind it. :) One keeps complaining, and the other goes into fix-it mode and comes up with this idea, and they both think it's brilliant.

But very poor execution. Logistically bad, extra work for everyone, going to be a mess on Halloween with the obvious A-list/B-list. If at Halloween one's neighborhood is being flooded with large numbers of poorly-behaved, poorly-supervised children whom you suspect are from other areas, I think there are far better ways to deal with it than this--something neighborhood-wide, perhaps, like proposing ToT at the local mall or rented space instead of house-to-house, or asking for greater police presence in the area that evening. A municipal solution for a municipal problem, rather than one couple trying to make an exclusive candy club in their house. They could even, as others suggested, host a Halloween party with invited guests from their neighborhood, and then not give out candy at the door at all.

I lived in a rural area near a very small town, and ToTing was kind of foreign to me anyway. I would dress in a costume, and my dad would take me only to the homes of people he knew--the idea of going to door-to-door when you didn't know who lived there seems odd to me, and this was 25 years ago in a town of less than 5000 people, so likely to be quite safe. We would only go to maybe five or six houses, but people tended to be generous with the candy, so I always got a big enough haul that my mom would take it away and limit my sugar intake. Maybe that was their plan all along! :)
~Lynn2000

Carotte

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #79 on: October 17, 2013, 11:41:26 AM »
But very poor execution. Logistically bad, extra work for everyone, going to be a mess on Halloween with the obvious A-list/B-list. If at Halloween one's neighborhood is being flooded with large numbers of poorly-behaved, poorly-supervised children whom you suspect are from other areas, I think there are far better ways to deal with it than this--

I agree with that, and would suggest a paper coupon to redeem the 'extra' candy. Make it on special stationery or with a minimum of detail  and unless the kids are master forgers it shouldn't be a problem.
Maybe even set a special time to redeem them (earlier in the evening?).
What better way to teach a kid about responsability than pairing it with candy :).

Xandraea

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2013, 01:18:09 PM »
Okay, I know I am a paranoid so-and-so.

But am I the only one who wondered, "gee, I wonder why these people are so interested in gathering a list of kids who live nearby, and ingratiating themselves with the kids and their families as The Nice Neighbor Who Gives Good Candy?"

My DH is in marketing, and so much of it is about creating a group of "insiders" who willingly give up their info in order to get special treats - so you can then use that info later, and make them more open to your solicitations.

So are these neighbors going to be soliciting for Amway, or a political campaign, or ....something worse?

This was my first thought as well. This neighbor has some reason for wanting the names of local children/parents, and is using Halloween as a way to get the information. I find this creepy. If this person had legitimate interest in this info, they'd already know because they know their neighbors by being neighborly.  A "pre-registration list" sets off my hinky meter. Logistics aside (What a mess!), this is simply a terrible idea.

About Halloween: I know it's a tradition, and I remember doing it a few times as a kid, but I lost all interest in the shenanigans years ago. Yes, it's fun to see all the little ones in costumes, and I did hand out treats last year. A few kids went up the street one way and came back again the other way (there were only houses on one side of the street), so I recognized a several repeats. I still smiled and gave them another piece of candy. When I ran out of candy, I turned off my light and shut the door.

I am also puzzled that we spend our kids' whole lives telling them not to take candy from strangers, and yet one night a year people dress their kids up and send them to strangers to beg for candy. It's one thing if it's neighborhood kids who know the neighbors, but the truckloads of kids being taken into other neighborhoods often don't know who they're taking candy from. I'd rather throw a party and invite friends and their kids and just have a good time with people I know.

EllenS

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2013, 02:22:06 PM »
I'd rather throw a party and invite friends and their kids and just have a good time with people I know.

TorT is still prevalent in many areas where I live, but the "Trunk or Treat" party at church or school is rapidly supplanting it.

*inviteseller

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2013, 12:13:49 AM »
I am "trucked" in..I go to my sisters and have for the last 16 years.  The reason?  My neighborhood is very nice, but there are apartment buildings one street over..too many steps, and none of the surrounding streets have sidewalks and for some reason, our borough is well known for not having a lot of street lights.  Last year, due to Hurricane Sandy washing out Halloween on the actual day (I am in Pittsburgh, as while we didn't have the devastation, we did have over 8" of rain that day) so it was moved to the following Saturday all over our little corner of the world.  My sister's was Saturday afternoon, mine was Saturday night.  We went and did my sister's street (longlong cul de sac) to see her neighbors then come home and for once do our own neighborhood, and I would not care if they were handing out bars of gold and diamond rings, I will never do my neighborhood again.  It is dangerous on the roads (the 'main' road of our neighborhood was scary with cars whizzing by, kids running in the dark, no sidewalks so we are walking in peoples yards that are still like swamps from the torrential rains) and the majority of the kids we ran into (and it was packed at every turn) were some serious SS's ..older kids knocking little kids out of the way, horseplay, language.  We are considered an upperclass neighborhood and I have seen better behavior in lower class areas! 

Thipu1

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2013, 11:43:05 AM »
I'd rather throw a party and invite friends and their kids and just have a good time with people I know.

TorT is still prevalent in many areas where I live, but the "Trunk or Treat" party at church or school is rapidly supplanting it.

Our neighborhood does a variation of 'trunk or treat'.  On Halloween afternoon, merchants are out on the sidewalk with 5 gallon buckets of treats.  Usually, the employee handing out the goodies is costumed.  This closes down around 5 PM because everyone has to go home, calm down and eat dinner before our neighborhood parade begins. 


emjo306

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #84 on: October 27, 2013, 01:37:55 PM »
I take my kids ToTing outside of our own neighborhood - not because it's rural or unsafe, but because my parents and grandmother love seeing my boys dressed in their costumes and enjoying Halloween with them. My DH is often working on Halloween night, so if I go to my parent's neighborhood I can enlist help in taking my kids door to door as well.  Someone always stays behind and hands out candy at my parents' house, so I figure they are also contributing to the neighborhood kids while their "trucked in" grandchildren are ToTing, and it evens out.

kherbert05

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2013, 02:29:35 PM »
The only times I've had a problem with trucked in kids is when the adults were SS or idiots.


1. The SS father caused an accident. He parked in away that blocked the view of an intersection, waved people around, and had is kids climbing out of both sides of the truck. Teen boy swerved to miss kids hit teen girl's car. The fire department had to use jaws of life t get the girl out. Boy got a ticket.


Oh and while the fire department were rescuing the girl - his kids were running around the accident scene without shoes. He would not leave while the cops were still there, because he was breaking seatbelt laws by having toddlers to HS kids in the back of a pick up. Cops ended up getting 4 cars to stake out the corners in each direction and leaving. He drove towards the HW and was pulled over one block down.


2. SS father asked me and my neighbors if we had called the (Rude name for cops) because (rude name for African Americans) were TOT in the area. (SS father was African American). I said no, he was probably their to check that my former across the street neighbor was not participating in ToT due to his crime against a child under 10. This was confirmed a little while later when the police officer came up and asked me if the house across the street had been participating in ToT.  (They had seen people walking away from the porch - but they had gone up to read the foreclosure notice.) 
Don't Teach Them For Your Past. Teach Them For Their Future

*inviteseller

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #86 on: October 27, 2013, 07:09:22 PM »
In my sister's neighborhood, the borough requires registered offenders to post a notice the borough provided on their door.  They are not allowed to even set out a bowl of candy on the porch (as one guy who my sister warned me about) did.   I was surprised at the fact we saw 4 notices that night...one on her street, and 3 on the streets went to on the other side of the main road.  The note said (we didn't see it at first and the porch light was on..another nono) A Registered sex offender is listed at this address and is not allowed to hand out candy or interact with anyone under the age of 18.    We now walk a ways down from her street to another plan to finish up where, not a guarantee, but no notices.

Jones

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2013, 09:07:44 PM »
^^ In my state, they only have to not answer the door and keep their porch light off; no sign or anything. A sex offender very recently moved into my neighborhood; basically he finished his sentence and immediately moved in with his parents. If I hadn't checked the website due to making new running routes, I'd not have known about him; they didn't breathe a word, though of course I saw him move in with them and figured he was their relative. Then again, how would that conversation go? "Hey, hope you don't mind, my criminal son convicted of XYZ is moving in with us because he has nowhere to go." Yeah, not so much.

I know in some states sex offenders have to introduce themselves around the neighborhood when they move in, but not here. I'd like to tell the people of the neighborhood but I think the most I could do is tell them to check the offender website. And make sure his porch light is off on Halloween night.

doodlemor

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #88 on: October 31, 2013, 08:24:01 PM »
Could you please give us an update about this hare-brained scheme? 

workerbee

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Re: Halloween Neighbor "Candy Pass"
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2013, 09:34:20 AM »
We were out in our neighborhood last night and a conversation with a neighbor reminded me of this thread. Our neighborhood is actually great for trick-or-treating with small children - we're bordered by two busy roads and two dead ends, so it's basically a T-shape, with 2 small cul-de-sacs. Little traffic except for the people who live in the neighborhood. Easy to get up and down and very manageable size for little ones!

Anyway, our neighbor mentioned that we tend to have a lot of people 'drive in' and he viewed it as a "testament to the neighborhood." I thought that was a really nice, welcoming way to look at it. I'm of the belief that every kid should have the fun of going door-to-door, so if your neighborhood isn't appropriate for it, come on over!

My only issue with people driving in is safety -- if you can just park at the top of the block and walk around, you are most welcome. I do worry about people driving from house to house with all the kids running around.