Author Topic: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners  (Read 11036 times)

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magician5

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2013, 06:48:43 PM »
"After this announcement, she proceeded to whip a breast out at the dinner table. She repeated this 4 more times during the meal, and then multiples times afterwards during dessert."

You say that like it's a bad thing. I figure that if she's so insistent that it's natural and normal to put it out there for all to see, then I'm going to enjoy the show. (Sorry, I know that's a sexist quip, but I couldn't help it).

HOWEVER, this whole controversy (the "why should I hide it" issue) stems from a polarizing politicization ... the extremes are, on one side, "I'm not only unashamed, I'm downright proud, look at me!" and on the other side "that's disgusting, feed your baby in the bathroom!" The whole 'controversy' is so needless!

I'm thankful that "lisen" mentioned the polite choice, nursing covers, which let the baby be fed without disturbing the sensibilities of the others who are present.
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VorFemme

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2013, 07:07:54 PM »
Besides nursing covers, there are also nursing clothes - with discrete slits, facings, zippers, and the like to let the baby feed without exposing the chesticles.  I used them when VorSon was a baby almost twenty years ago - I used clothing with center front buttons to nurse Ambrosia Hino almost thirty years ago (no internet and I don't think that the nursing patterns were available yet - Elizabeth Lee Designs, if anyone wants to look them up).  I've also seen false vest fronts to sew to a shirt's shoulder and side seams, then slit the shirt to allow access - button the vest front when the baby isn't eating - Bizzy Bees, I think was the name on that pattern - I have no idea if they are still in business.  Beesiness?

But most babies aren't going to need to nurse four times in the course of ONE dinner party!  Unless her mother is "doing it wrong"....(Snarky insists that she must be doing something wrong if she can't get the baby fed in ONE session - but she wasn't there to ask - having so much more experience than a mother with her first eight month old - as she would politely point out if Golden Mother wanted to know what SHE knew about the subject as nobody is going to see me nursing any babies any time soon - menopause). 
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

darkprincess

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2013, 07:25:28 PM »
DD just weaned herself and I never used a cover. However I also always wore a shirt that covered all of the parts that baby wasn't covering. I never made a big deal about it, and many times people, men and women, would be in a conversation with me for several minutes and then suddenly stop and say "Oh My, your BF?!?!?" They didn't even notice, they just thought I was holding her. BF can be done in a very showy, look at me way or in a very quiet, subtle way.
I know that every baby is different, and my first was easily distracted so she would latch on, let go, and quickly latch on again. But I never had a time that I was feeding her several times during one meal. If she was that distracted I would excuse myself, not because of the adults, but because she was too distracted to eat and we needed to go to a quiet possible dark room where she could not be distracted
I think the women in the story's main goal was to be an outspoken advocate for BF. I believe there are great times and places for that. But it doesn't sound like this was one of them.
I always have something to put my daughter on when we change diapers. I would never put her on someone's floor, couch, table, etc without first laying down a blanket, changing pad, etc. I always have one of those available. I keep them with the diapers.

On a side note if people request that I cover up when feeding or go to another room, I usually go to my car, feed her, and then thank them for their hospitality and leave. DH and I then don't accept or make invitations with them if BF will be required during the visit. We know that it makes them uncomfortable and we want to respect that, but if the baby needs to eat I need to feed her and I am not going to be embarrassed or be forced to leave the event by it. Because of this our best option is to politely decline invitations from people who object. However at 6 months we were introducing solid food and when we went to other people's houses our baby food plan was solid food instead of BF.

Black Delphinium

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2013, 07:27:34 PM »
As an as-of-yet childless person, I bet she kept whipping them out because she has conditioned herself and Elise that Elise's boredom/fussiness/lack of attention to Mummy =come here and nurse.

Lisen, did she also mention a distain for pacifiers?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 11:17:52 PM by Black Delphinium »
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LifeOnPluto

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2013, 10:45:29 PM »
"After this announcement, she proceeded to whip a breast out at the dinner table. She repeated this 4 more times during the meal, and then multiples times afterwards during dessert."

You say that like it's a bad thing. I figure that if she's so insistent that it's natural and normal to put it out there for all to see, then I'm going to enjoy the show. (Sorry, I know that's a sexist quip, but I couldn't help it).



I suspect that if the OP's husband had been sitting opposite this women, she would have berated him for perving at her chest, or something. I think PPs are right in saying that she was spoiling for a fight and was disappointed when she didn't get one.


mspallaton

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2013, 11:09:04 PM »
Semi-off topic --- shortly after finishing college, several friends of mine married and had children.  I was at dinner with one of them who took out her breast at the table to feed her son.  The host, who did not have children, asked her to either cover up or excuse herself until she was finished and motioned to the rest of the table (I assume to indicate that she believed it was making the other guests uncomfortable).

The friend who started breastfeeding refused and used the "it's natural" reasoning for why she wouldn't cover up.

I don't know if it is even remotely eHell approved, but the host's response made me laugh out loud.  She looked our friend straight in the eye, smiled and said "so is relieving yourself, but I would hope you wouldn't do that at the table either".

Our friend with the baby then excused herself and returned when the feeding was finished.

Erich L-ster

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2013, 11:13:03 PM »
"Marina announced that she didn't believe in using a change table or change pad because it was inconvenient"

Well, yeah - you have a baby and you have to bring a bag of stuff around that may be sort of inconvenient. How is bringing a pad any more of a hardship than the rest of the stuff? You need to bring diapers, wipes, washcloth, change of clothes....how does adding a pad to the bag put it over the top?

delabela

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2013, 12:35:09 AM »
Well, if I was invited somewhere with my baby when my little ones where in the breastfeeding stage, I would have assumed that it was understood that I would likely have to feed the baby.  I never made a big production of it, and wore clothing that made it relatively easy and unobtrusive.  But if my kid needs to eat, he's gonna eat.  Many babies object significantly to having something over their heads while they are eating.

But in general, the woman was a boor, and I would have had to grit my teeth to get through the visit and certainly never have her over again.

magician5

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2013, 01:27:23 AM »
"After this announcement, she proceeded to whip a breast out at the dinner table. She repeated this 4 more times during the meal, and then multiples times afterwards during dessert."

You say that like it's a bad thing. I figure that if she's so insistent that it's natural and normal to put it out there for all to see, then I'm going to enjoy the show. (Sorry, I know that's a sexist quip, but I couldn't help it).



I suspect that if the OP's husband had been sitting opposite this women, she would have berated him for perving at her chest, or something. I think PPs are right in saying that she was spoiling for a fight and was disappointed when she didn't get one.

I failed to say, in my post quoted above, that the "that's disgusting" position is so overreaching and unfair (as well as indelicate and inconsiderate) that it demands to be countered in very definite terms ... and that vigorously standing up for oneself is often just a small step away from the kind of militant protest and "acting out" described in the OP.
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alis

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2013, 07:21:44 AM »
I personally do not see an issue with nursing at a dinner table as that is how the baby eats as well, I do not equal it to excreting on a table.

That being said, an 8 month old does not need to nurse 4x in one dinner, and if your baby needs to nurse that frequently it means they are upset or teething or whatever, so it seems rather rude to force a baby to continue at a dinner. Put the baby on the floor with a bunch of pots and pans and let them have fun while you can attentively engage with your host.

I'm a nursing mother of an 11 month old (and other kids) but her behaviour was disgraceful. There's nothing about her behaviour that HELPS the cause of "Lactivism", and it's quite embarrassing actually for women like me who just want to go about life as normal without needing attention for nursing. If you want it to be normal, then let it be normal.

Is this her first child? I do think some women, first-time mothers in particular who haven't fully adjusted to life as a mother, seem to think that the world revolves around their baby and their choice to nurse or bottle feed or whatever, you know the mommy wars only exist online and she needs to get over herself!!!

Dream

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2013, 08:13:07 AM »
I was lucky enough to be able to breast feed all four of my smelly small people but never once did I act like this. I have breastfed in restaurants and had people not realise at all. I am not militant about it, nor an exhibitionist, breastfeeding can (and should?) be done in as calm and discreet a manner as possible.

The nappy changing without pad and coming without being prepared for the baby's visit boggles my mind a little. Packing for a baby that age can feel like packing for an Artic expedition but you still do it!

I agree with the previous posters who said that she was looking for a fight, certainly sounds that way to me  :-\ A rude, abrasive lady who perhaps shouldn't receive the chance to do this to you again.

lisen

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2013, 08:22:20 AM »
As an as-of-yet childless person, I bet she kept whipping them out because she has conditioned herself and Elise that Elise's boredom/fussiness/lack of attention to Mummy =come here and nurse.

Lisen, did she also mention a distain for pacifiers?

I suspect that you may be right. She tried to nurse Elise every time the baby started to make any noise, and kept saying, "Oh, she's dry and not really hungry, she just needs her mummy." Later, the husband said that Elise was teething. I asked if they wanted a wash cloth or something for the baby to chew on because she had sore gums. Instead, Marina gave Elise a small religious artefact and my coasters to chew on. I think that she has a misguided idea about being a sort of super granola parent.

alis

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2013, 08:26:44 AM »
You know, I've always wondered what those crazy mommy-wars uber granola women were like in person, and I suspect you had one over for dinner!  >:D

She sounds crazy OTT to me and most would consider me "granola"  :P

Are cork coasters 'organic'?

lisen

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2013, 08:27:47 AM »
Well, if I was invited somewhere with my baby when my little ones where in the breastfeeding stage, I would have assumed that it was understood that I would likely have to feed the baby.  I never made a big production of it, and wore clothing that made it relatively easy and unobtrusive.  But if my kid needs to eat, he's gonna eat.  Many babies object significantly to having something over their heads while they are eating.

But in general, the woman was a boor, and I would have had to grit my teeth to get through the visit and certainly never have her over again.

My best friend has a young baby. When we get together, my friend (Amanda) often feeds her son while we are eating, shopping, watching a movie on the couch, etc. I think the difference is that Amanda does not expose her whole breast, but rather uses a cover or a nursing top. In Marina's case, I feel that she was almost daring me to "say something" to her, while in Amanada's case, she is just feeding her baby. I bear no ill will towards people who breast feed, but only people who are confrontational and inconsiderate.

MommyPenguin

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Re: Guest Couple's Objectionable Parenting Manners
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2013, 08:56:06 AM »
I think how much is visible during breastfeeding can depend on one's size and shape, and maybe the size/position of the baby.  I usually found that I didn't need a cover to avoid showing anything dicey while nursing.  I did, however, use a cover at places like church or when men were around, so it didn't make them uncomfortable worrying that they'd see something they shouldn't.  However, the phrasing "whipped it out" implies to me that she didn't keep things hidden by her shirt above, but instead exposed her entire breast in doing so.

Putting the baby on the table is disturbing.  I'm not clear if Marina was holding the baby or just sat the baby on the table and hoped she wouldn't fall off.  But it's weird.  I sometimes don't bring a seat or anything for a baby, but then I'd hold the baby in my lap.

Chewing on a religious artifact?  Was this yours, or hers?  It seems needlessly antagonistic even if it was hers and she brought it, as it might bother others of the same fate.  But then, just about everything she did seemed needlessly antagonistic.

Everybody has already said my thoughts about the conversation monopoly.  Does she have aspirations to be Lady Catherine de Bourgh? 

For changing the diaper on the floor, I can see it possibly being her usual habit.  Once you're accustomed to diaper changing, your baby is no longer a newborn (and so blowouts are rarer and peeing/pooping *during* the changing almost never happens), and your baby is still young enough not to fight you too much, it's not really difficult to change a baby without a page, simply by putting the new diaper *under* the old one, so that it sort of acts as a mini-changing pad.  Unstick old diaper, open, lift baby up by legs to clean baby, fold up old one, put baby back down on new diaper, stick it shut.  Nonetheless, this is not a risk I'd take on anybody's carpet, including my own!  I'd aim for a tile floor if there was no other option (there's a changing pad in my diaper bag, though, so it's never been a problem).  I'd guess that she was putting the baby's comfort (nice soft carpet instead of cold hard tile) over everybody else's.