Cut direct from half a couple?

[lakey]

You did the right thing. When it reaches a point where police are telling you that the people are messed up to the point where you should stay away from them, follow that advice.

Christian forgiveness doesn't come without strings attached. It has to be earned. You earn forgiveness by having true remorse. That means that you are sorry for what you did, but you also make a firm commitment to not do it anymore. A person who is married and continues to carry on an affair is entitled to have that affair, it's her business, but hasn't earned forgiveness.

I had a relative who was cheating on her husband and called me one day to tell me that she was telling her husband that she was doing something with me when she was actually seeing her boyfriend. I told her "no". I have no intention of getting involved in someone else's lying and cheating.

[English1]

Thanks, I've always felt a bit guilty about turning my back on someone who needed a bit of help probably, but then again most of her dramas were entirely of her own making (there were lots) so my sympathy at the time was very limited.

Yes, I was not happy with T's response (his telling me my fears of this man coming round and causing trouble/concerns for safety for myself and son were 'all in my head' should have been a warning about his lack of empathy. I did stay with him for a number of years and you wouldn't believe what happened to make me actually break up with him! But that's a relationship not etiquette issue so not relevant here. Happy to say I'm now engaged to a very nice man who understands how relationships are meant to work).

[Piratelvr1121]

You were totally and completely right.

It's like she was a skunk and you started smelling something off and kept your distance.
T was like "but it is a cute animal!' and is ignoring the fact that a skunk can spray at any moment.

Yeah, Bambi can call her a flower all he wants, but she's still a skunk.

[Winterlight]

You were in the right to cut off contact with her, and T's lecturing me about Christian forgiveness would have had me adding him to the dump list.

[Piratelvr1121]

Thanks, I've always felt a bit guilty about turning my back on someone who needed a bit of help probably, but then again most of her dramas were entirely of her own making (there were lots) so my sympathy at the time was very limited.

I know people like that, myself.  It's very frustrating when they keep complaining about a situation they got themselves into but won't fix it on their own but expect others to solve it for them.   

I mean I'm one who's often accused of being too nice but on the other hand, people like this just wear me out and even if I don't do a complete cut, I do stop worrying about them as much.

[EllenS]

Thanks, I've always felt a bit guilty about turning my back on someone who needed a bit of help probably, but then again most of her dramas were entirely of her own making (there were lots) so my sympathy at the time was very limited.

One thing I have learned to ask, when I feel this way, is am I able to give the kind of help that is needed?

Car wreck: I can call 911 and possibly be a witness for the police. I am not a medical professional, nor do I carry the Jaws of Life.

Friend is upset, sick or overwhelmed: I can listen, pray, and cook meals or provide emergency childcare. I can give someone phone numbers for crisis hotlines or for my own therapist. I can invite someone to church and introduce them to nice people who might also become friends. I cannot do the following:
marriage counselling
intensive psychotherapy
find someone a job
make someone be able to keep a job
make someone leave an abusive relationship
make someone stop abusing substances
Etc.

I absolutely cannot include someone in my life who puts my child in danger.  That is a complete conflict of interest with my major job in life.

I can only do what I can do.  If the person needs comprehensive "help" in a way I cannot provide, there is no reason for me to try and be a bandaid to hide their problems.

Hugs!  I think you did fine.

[MrTango]

You did the right thing. When it reaches a point where police are telling you that the people are messed up to the point where you should stay away from them, follow that advice.

Christian forgiveness doesn't come without strings attached. It has to be earned. You earn forgiveness by having true remorse. That means that you are sorry for what you did, but you also make a firm commitment to not do it anymore. A person who is married and continues to carry on an affair is entitled to have that affair, it's her business, but hasn't earned forgiveness.

I had a relative who was cheating on her husband and called me one day to tell me that she was telling her husband that she was doing something with me when she was actually seeing her boyfriend. I told her "no". I have no intention of getting involved in someone else's lying and cheating.

What you're talking about, especially the bolded, sounds more like trust than forgiveness.

When I forgive someone, it's not for their sake but for my own. I am choosing to no longer carry around the burden of their past deeds.  It really feels as if I dump a bunch of bricks out of my backpack.

Even after I've forgiven someone and left those bricks behind me, I know better than to trust them (i.e., I'm not going to allow them to hold still more bricks over my head ready to drop them at their convenience.)

[Piratelvr1121]

Thanks, I've always felt a bit guilty about turning my back on someone who needed a bit of help probably, but then again most of her dramas were entirely of her own making (there were lots) so my sympathy at the time was very limited.

One thing I have learned to ask, when I feel this way, is am I able to give the kind of help that is needed?

Car wreck: I can call 911 and possibly be a witness for the police. I am not a medical professional, nor do I carry the Jaws of Life.

Friend is upset, sick or overwhelmed: I can listen, pray, and cook meals or provide emergency childcare. I can give someone phone numbers for crisis hotlines or for my own therapist. I can invite someone to church and introduce them to nice people who might also become friends. I cannot do the following:
marriage counselling
intensive psychotherapy
find someone a job
make someone be able to keep a job
make someone leave an abusive relationship
make someone stop abusing substances
Etc.

I absolutely cannot include someone in my life who puts my child in danger.  That is a complete conflict of interest with my major job in life.

I can only do what I can do.  If the person needs comprehensive "help" in a way I cannot provide, there is no reason for me to try and be a bandaid to hide their problems.

Hugs!  I think you did fine.

The bolded is one I've had to learn.  It's been frustrating when I know that a friend is being mistreated but she won't do a thing to help herself.  One friend I made several suggestions to, and I know her mother has made the same suggestions.  This I know because after I had suggested she get a new lawyer, she told us (as though it was a completely new idea) that her mom had suggested she do so. 

I've stepped back and am offering no more suggestions and while I still will quietly pray she'll grow a spine and punt his derriere out of the house, I can't force her.

As for the forgiveness thing, we discussed that once at a bible study I attend, how people always say "Forgive and forget" and our reverend was there that week and she said by all means we do need to forgive but to forget is not really a good idea because if we do, we set ourselves up to be hurt over and over again.

[blarg314]

T thought I was wrong. That this was a woman who hadn't meant to cause me trouble

This was a woman who was a casual friend, at best, who was using you as a cover to cheat on her husband (who had rage problems), while telling you she was separated, and going on double dates with you and your BF with her affair partner.

This woman deliberately caused you trouble, and deliberately set you up to be in the middle of a very troubled marriage. She is directly responsible for setting you up to be the target of her husband's rage. So yes, I would have cut her off - I'd have cut her off for using me as a cover for her affair, even without the added drama.

In a more general sense - I don't think that it's possible to maintain a regular friendship with someone who is still with a spouse that has threatened you to the point that you needed to have the police involved. It's like sneaking around trying to have an affair with someone who has a jealous, violent husband, except you're not even getting any Scrabble out of it - the risk of them finding out and targeting you is too great. And I don't agree with your BF - you were right to be scared of her husband. Anyone who requires police intervention to stop threatening you is not safe.

In general, the best you can do when it's apparent that your friend is in an abusive relationship, is to try to maintain a fairly tenuous connection (meeting for coffee occasionally in a public place, a phone call from an unlisted number) in order to, basically, be there to offer support if they decide to leave.

In those situations, though, you have to be willing to accept the frustration of being friends with someone who is choosing to stay in a bad situation, knowing you can't fix it, and nothing will change until *they* decide to do something.

[TootsNYC]

The other thing is, we choose to be friend with people who share our values.

There ya go!

[BarensMom]

The other thing is, we choose to be friend with people who share our values.

There ya go!

The problem often is that when you first meet someone, it appears they share your values.  Then, after you're sucked into the friendship, the cracks appear. 

I've been taken in many times by people, who on the surface, appear to be normal.  Then after I got to know them, the midnight drunken calls start up, the conversations become solely about the woes they won't do anything about, or, in extreme cases, I've discovered that about almost everything in their life is a lie.  Then trying to disconnect from them becomes a major headache.

[Piratelvr1121]

The other thing is, we choose to be friend with people who share our values.

There ya go!

The problem often is that when you first meet someone, it appears they share your values.  Then, after you're sucked into the friendship, the cracks appear. 

I've been taken in many times by people, who on the surface, appear to be normal.  Then after I got to know them, the midnight drunken calls start up, the conversations become solely about the woes they won't do anything about, or, in extreme cases, I've discovered that about almost everything in their life is a lie.  Then trying to disconnect from them becomes a major headache.

This is very true, especially when you're dealing with manipulators who know how to play the game so it seems they appear to share the same values and ideas. 

Of course people do change, and sometimes their values do too. I know I think of the world differently than I did in my 20's and I think that's one big reason that childhood and college friends often drift apart.  I also am a bit wiser and see people for who they are more than I did as a kid or in my naive college days.

[Peppergirl]

I think you did the right thing and I'm very glad T is an ex.  Shame on him for making you feel guilty! 

It's not as though it was a small spat or misunderstanding.  This person caused you and your child to be threatened.  Disgusting!