Author Topic: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - Horn O'Plenty Play Update (Reply #447)  (Read 74508 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kherbert05

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10408
    • Trees downed in my yard by Ike and the clean up
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #420 on: November 24, 2013, 10:10:32 AM »
I suspect, Goosey, that she didn't anticipate the others would discover a connection.

What is puzzling me about this discussion is the number of people who feel sorry for Carol. I don't. I wonder why those who do, do. Imagine that this was not a nonprofit but instead a private business or large corporation. Carol is the middle manager with a CEO over her (rather than a board of directors). The OP and her fellow volunteers are staff who work under Carol.

Carol comes into work and does what she does, pressuring her subordinates to contribute to her son's camp expenses. Upon being informed by HR who was notified by one of the employees, that this is an inappropriate use of her authority, Carol sends an office wide non-apology email. The employees are angered and annoyed but don't say anything more because Carol does their annual evaluations, approves or disapproves requested vacation time, and hands out juicy (and awful) work assignments.

All goes along okay, and the employees think things might be settled, when they go out to leave one Friday night and find, on their cars, in the employee parking lot, fliers on contributing to a food donation fundraiser. How odd, though, that there is no name attached, no phone number, or anything other than a request for the donor to put a number of top of the can. Hmm, thinks a couple of employees, this is odd. We already have a donation can in the building. Did someone come in to the lot and leave outside spam? Then Carol comes out to go home and sees a small group of employees gathered around, talking. She just happens to mention the flier. Well ... how does she know about it? She hasn't been to her car yet so how does she know about them?

There is nothing to feel sorry about or anyone to feel sorry for. As I noted above, this is PD. It should be dealt with in the manner of all PD.
Maybe Pity rather than feel sorry for would be more accurate. I pity her because I grew up with trophy kids. From my experience Conner will either reject her as an embarrassment, or he will be a leech that never stands on his own two feet and it will be her fault because she didn't get him into that camp.
Don't Teach Them For Your Past. Teach Them For Their Future

shhh its me

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7022
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #421 on: November 24, 2013, 11:02:27 AM »
It's just so weird that she went through all that effort for plausible deniability and then, you know, didn't deny anything.  :o

I don't find it weird at all. She's not someone who can think more than one step ahead. She realized that she was in trouble and had to be more subtle, so she planted the flyers. What she didn't think ahead to was: 1) Her co-workers would figure out what it was; and 2) Would be very, very unhappy when they did. She didn't think far enough ahead to realize that asking about the flyers would give people more evidence for #1. She was completely unprepared to be confronted about it and so gave up the story almost immediately. She's incapable of seeing the otherwise-obvious results of her actions. It's quite likely, to me at least, that were the positions reversed, she would be making donations to support someone else's kid (unless she saw that as competition for her own); she can't understand, even when faced with evidence, that people are put off by her actions.

Sadly, I know a few people like this. If they believe something is right, then no evidence to the contrary will affect them. My CEO, a supposedly savvy businessman, just made a promise to our customers that we can't fulfill in the time frame that he gave. This is the third time he's done that and each time resulted in some very unhappy customers. In fact, he made this latest promise because he's afraid that we're going to lose those customers if we don't give them this thing right away. The fact that everybody has said that making this promise is a bad idea, and the fact that we've failed before is having no effect at all.

This and some people will try subterfuge and lies of omission but outright boldface lying they can't.  To me " Hmmm ohhhh  horn of plenty play I may go to that. That seems just peachy." was a plan it was just a really really bad one. I think she thinks she is a mastermind and no one would work out  "yep this is obviously Connor."   In my experience deceitful people are not as good at it as they think its just their victims don't want to deal with the conflict or don't want to be the bad guy just in case of  the very slight chance they are telling the truth/innocent.   

CrazyDaffodilLady

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1279
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #422 on: November 24, 2013, 12:56:11 PM »
We don't know what's going on with Carol's home life, but it's possible her husband isn't enthusiastic about Connor's alleged acting ambitions and is refusing to pay for the camp.

I agree with shhh it's me that deceitful manipulative people are not as clever as they think they are.  It's an extra annoyance when they insult your intelligence by thinking you don't see what they're up to. 
It takes two people to play tug of war. If you don't want to play, don't pick up the rope.

m2kbug

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1495
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #423 on: November 24, 2013, 01:16:04 PM »
Was anyone else bothered by the thought of kids getting points and getting prizes for who donates the most? Doesn't seem like a great way to foster a spirit of generosity to me, when it seems like setting kids up to think even more about themselves than those they're helping.

I don't see a problem with it.  It happens all the time.  Remember those toy and candy things we used to sell as kids?  Girl Scout cookies?  Marathons and bike-a-thons?  Someone often gets a prize.  My kids' grade school typically had a classroom party for for the room that brought in the most money/cans. 

That said, the fact that Carol is putting out flyers for a "competing" charity and for her own personal gain, after being warned to knock it off, is beyond me. 

I don't have a problem with people peddling their children's (or their own) wares and charity functions at work, so long as no one feels strong-armed into contributing.  If these ladies were employed, they may fear retribution if they don't dig deep into their pockets and support Connor or his mother whenever she brings it up.  I have lived in that world and it is not fun.

The said thing is, this is a charity the OP enjoys a great deal.  Sure, she can leave.  She doesn't really have to fear loss of income.  But she may not be able to find a charity and coworkers and co-volunteers) she enjoys nearly as much.  And the organization will lose valuable members if this nonsense continues.  It sounds like it could get hostile. 

I also feel badly for Carol.  I probably wouldn't report the flyer just yet and give it a couple weeks to fizzle out and get back to normal.  Tis' the season for charity and giving, and frankly, I'd hate to see Carol lose her job this time of year.  If any other volunteers or employees wish to also raise cans/socks/toys (with permission), I think it would be great if everyone could put flyers, boxes, sign sheets in the employee area with no expectations and no fear of retribution.  I think Carol taking a more "anonymous" approach with the canned goods and flyers was a better approach and for a worthy cause, not personal acting camp, but on top of her other antics, she blew it and she still carries an aura of entitlement.

What I'm wondering is if Carol suddenly started exhibiting this behavior?  Has she always gone after her subordinates to fund Connor and his events/charities?  Has everything suddenly escalated? 


TeamBhakta

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2650
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #424 on: November 24, 2013, 08:44:05 PM »
Quote
 
I also feel badly for Carol.  I probably wouldn't report the flyer just yet and give it a couple weeks to fizzle out and get back to normal.  Tis' the season for charity and giving, and frankly, I'd hate to see Carol lose her job this time of year.  If any other volunteers or employees wish to also raise cans/socks/toys (with permission), I

I wouldn't feel bad for her just because it's the holidays. There's always some holiday or birthday or life event that makes losing a job "not the right time" to fire someone. If Carol felt like "Oh golly, I hope I don't get fired since Christmas is coming up", I'd hope her inner Jiminy Cricket would tell her "Well, duh, then don't act up at work around Christmas, you silly goose."

blarg314

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 8506
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #425 on: November 24, 2013, 09:17:43 PM »

I do feel sorry for both Carol and Connor. Carol, because she seems like a sad, lonely person, with a husband and kid who don't treat her well, who is lacking the intelligence or insight or something that would let her change her behaviour.  Connor, because he's being raised to be a sad, lonely person who doesn't understand why no-one likes him.

However - I've also seen the effects of people like this in management or volunteer organizations, and letting her get away with it can easily wreck the good that the organization does. Her coworkers say "Oh, it's Christmas/Valentine's Day/President's Day, and it would be mean to get her fired now, so we won't report her" The boss says "It's not that bad - we can't fire her for being too enthusiastic about her kid."  And the next thing you know, the program is hemorrhaging volunteers who don't need to put up with her   to earn money, and are tired enough to give up the volunteer gig.

 

JeanFromBNA

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2295
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #426 on: November 24, 2013, 10:42:19 PM »
What I'm wondering is if Carol suddenly started exhibiting this behavior?  Has she always gone after her subordinates to fund Connor and his events/charities?  Has everything suddenly escalated?

I was wondering the same thing.  Is this new behavior?

nuit93

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1163
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #427 on: November 25, 2013, 12:10:04 AM »
Connor's behavior is making me think of a FB post a friend of mine recently made:  "I'm not saying your kid is a brat, but I just saw an Oompa Loompa blow into a pitch pipe."

Piratelvr1121

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 11120
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #428 on: November 25, 2013, 06:25:26 AM »
Connor's behavior is making me think of a FB post a friend of mine recently made:  "I'm not saying your kid is a brat, but I just saw an Oompa Loompa blow into a pitch pipe."

I like that. :)
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

pierrotlunaire0

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4253
  • I'm the cat's aunt!
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #429 on: November 25, 2013, 09:27:14 AM »
I also feel badly for Carol.  I probably wouldn't report the flyer just yet and give it a couple weeks to fizzle out and get back to normal.  Tis' the season for charity and giving, and frankly, I'd hate to see Carol lose her job this time of year.  If any other volunteers or employees wish to also raise cans/socks/toys (with permission), I think it would be great if everyone could put flyers, boxes, sign sheets in the employee area with no expectations and no fear of retribution. 

I would also think that for most charitable organizations, this is their big crunch time, the season when people are most likely to donate.  Now if the organization starts to flounder because the volunteers are leaving in droves, it could cause irreparable damage to the organization.  I would rather that one person (who quite frankly seems incapable of stopping her offensive behavior) suffer rather than the beneficiaries of the organization.  They are the innocents here.
I have enough lithium in my medicine cabinet to power three cars across a sizeable desert.  Which makes me officially...Three Cars Crazy

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28647
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #430 on: November 25, 2013, 09:46:31 AM »
Was anyone else bothered by the thought of kids getting points and getting prizes for who donates the most? Doesn't seem like a great way to foster a spirit of generosity to me, when it seems like setting kids up to think even more about themselves than those they're helping.

It's not the charity's responsibility to "foster a spirit of generosity," in this case. It's to get canned goods for the hungry. If it takes a competition, I suppose they think it an effective way of getting to their goal.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

GlitterIsMyDrug

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1120
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #431 on: November 25, 2013, 10:22:52 AM »
Was anyone else bothered by the thought of kids getting points and getting prizes for who donates the most? Doesn't seem like a great way to foster a spirit of generosity to me, when it seems like setting kids up to think even more about themselves than those they're helping.

When I was in grade school we used to do a canned food drive every year by classroom, for each grade level (so all the fourth grade class room, competed against each other) and which ever classroom donated the most canned foods got a pizza party. It'd get us excited about helping out. And if our teachers were really good they'd talk to us about how the food donations help hungry people in our area. I remember watching some special video from that Nick News program.

Though, we'd always end up inviting the other classrooms to our pizza party anyways...but it was still fun to "compete".

I'm hoping this is a similar thing and the 9 indicates Connor's whole class and not just Connor.

KimodoDragon

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 72
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - I Spoke With Jessie Update (Reply #340)
« Reply #432 on: November 25, 2013, 11:12:28 AM »
Good Morning EH,

To answer a question:  Carol has never fundraised during my time at the store on Saturdays.  She has always talked about how smart and “gifted” Connor is, but has never actively solicited on his behalf.

Carol was not at the store on Saturday.  There was another lady (Sharon) in her place doing the managing.  As I was sorting through the donated goods, I overheard Sharon say she was dispatched to work this location today and that she likes this location better than her usual one.  No mention of Carol or her whereabouts.

Madeline emailed Jessie and me, stating she is attending the Horn O’Plenty play.  She asked if we wanted to go with – I declined and so did Jessie.  Madeline admits she is curious to see if Connor and Carol will be there.  I told Madeline to report back.

Venus193

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 15937
  • Backstage passes are wonderful things!
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - No Show Update (Reply #432)
« Reply #433 on: November 25, 2013, 11:22:57 AM »
Interesting.

I won't speculate as to the reason for Carol's absence; I'll wait for the next report.

cwm

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2427
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - No Show Update (Reply #432)
« Reply #434 on: November 25, 2013, 12:08:51 PM »
To paraphrase from Star Trek, I like this thread. It's exciting!

I can't wait for the report from Madeline, and to hear if Carol comes back to the location, or if she's been transferred away or is gone for good.