Author Topic: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - Horn O'Plenty Play Update (Reply #447)  (Read 74713 times)

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Zilla

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2013, 12:38:14 PM »
Are you asking if Jessie should engage the child?  I think all the gifted comments etc was unnecessary.  Josh does NOT have to hang with Connor if he doesn't want to.  And Jessie doesn't have to let her son play with Connor either.  Just decline it outright.  Jessie should simply tell Carol that Josh has other friends/interests but thank you for the invite.  If Carol insists, she can gently tell her, "Josh is 10 years old.  I don't schedule or force his playdates.  Now as I was saying, bean dip"
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 12:39:48 PM by Zilla »

Deetee

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2013, 01:05:14 PM »
A few thoughts.

Being truely gifted  and being a socially awkward child do often go together. I knew of exactly one child who was like that. He was 14 years old and in second year university when I was in grad school. I met him first at a social event when he was with a couple of the instructors. My first thought on seeing him move and talk was "Oh, I didn't know that they had a child who was developmentally disabled." He flailed. His speech was unmodulated. He moved oddly.

Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. I get (as a parent) how absolutely wonderful it is to watch your kid grow and learn. My daughter is doing amazing things. I made a 4 minute video of her sounding out words last night and actually starting to read, as my heart burst with pride. (Notice how I snuck that in there :) ) But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.


Anyhow, whether the kid is gifted is irrelevant to the fact that his mother is a bore, his father is a jerk and he is unnerving.

TurtleDove

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2013, 01:16:47 PM »
Anyhow, whether the kid is gifted is irrelevant to the fact that his mother is a bore, his father is a jerk and he is unnerving.

POD.  In addition, in real life it is generally more important to be socially gifted and average mentally than to be mentally gifted but unable to relate appropriately to others in society.

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2013, 01:20:08 PM »
It seems kind of weird and pushy for Connor's mom to be arranging playdates at this age.  This is the age where kids, as previous posters have mentioned, make their own friends.

Alas, I fear that Connor's parents have brought him up so that this will be extremely difficult. Gifted or not, I bet this is one skill he hasn't mastered, or even been taught. A whole lifetime of "you are better than everyone else" is not a good preparation for making friends.But this is not the problem for Jessie, and particularly Josh, to solve. If I were Jessie, I'd ask Josh his opinion. If he doesn't want to spend time with Connor, that would be an end of it. No good would come of putting two nine-year-olds together if they're not interested in being friends.

Completely agree with Twik's post, especially the bolded.

If Josh says he's not interested in hanging out with Connor, every time she's asked Jessie can say that Josh is engaged in other activities.

flickan

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2013, 01:47:10 PM »
Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted.

I wish this were a bumper sticker.

My mother did not get this at all.  Nobody cares.  Nobody wants to hear it.  Nobody ought to be subjected to parents bragging about their children's achievements ad nauseum.

If your kid is gifted trust that it will show.  Let them stand on their own.  Bragging about your kid is a quick way to give a little kid a big head.

artk2002

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2013, 02:20:28 PM »
Connor (age 9) ...

Connor crouches down like a cat with its back raised and teeth bared and began clawing at Josh’s leg.  We thought it was funny at first, but then Connor meows loudly and says, “you will not come out alive”.

A 9yo? That's behavior I'd expect from a 3yo.

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Carol laughs it off, saying she told us he was gifted.

Gifted at being a pain perhaps; I didn't see any evidence that he has any gifts beyond that.

Quote
Connor comes out of feline mode, stands up, looks around and says, “I believe everyone in this room is fat”.  Carol tells Connor to pipe down.  Connor says, “fat like you Carol”, then punches her in her stomach.

His mother? He called his mother fat and hit her? In most households, even those that are badly parented, that would result in consequences that would be uncomfortable at least.

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Connor takes a sweeping bow his with arm behind his back and says, “my apologies, dear woman”.  Carol turned to me and said, “see, he’s gifted with acting”.

So are psychopaths and sociopaths. The ability to hit someone and then be charming right away is not a good sign. Besides, smarmy isn't acting. Or, perhaps it is and Carol is more observant than we might think. Being nice is acting for this child. Acting in the sense of playing a role that isn't what you normally are.

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I told her I didn’t know how to measure that in a child, “but he’s something”.

Good response. Shorthand for "something awful," I'm sure.

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Carol asked Jessie if Josh could come to their house to hang out with Connor.  Jessie said she will get back to her.  Carol will ask repeatedly, we know this.  Now, Jessie feels she is in a bind and wants to know what she can tell Carol to stop her from asking.  Does Jessie use a tub of bean dip or just say she is not comfortable with Josh spending time in their house with Connor?

Be busy. Be very, very busy.

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One other thing happened – Carol’s husband comes over and tells Carol to get a move on, she has spent too much time in the food line, as usual.  Connor laughs and he and his dad walk off.

Something about apples and trees?
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esposita

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2013, 02:28:12 PM »
Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. [...] But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.

Exactly. Its pointless to run around telling people this kind of stuff. If they really are gifted, it will be evident in some way, usually to the people who will appreciate it the most. If my kid were a genius at chess, at this point only other chess players are going to care. Eventually the skills that make him a good chess player may be appreciated by a school or company or employer ...but still the world at large isn't going to need to know.

Deetee

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2013, 03:04:45 PM »
Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. [...] But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.

Exactly. Its pointless to run around telling people this kind of stuff. If they really are gifted, it will be evident in some way, usually to the people who will appreciate it the most. If my kid were a genius at chess, at this point only other chess players are going to care. Eventually the skills that make him a good chess player may be appreciated by a school or company or employer ...but still the world at large isn't going to need to know.

I can't believe you took out the part about my kid learning to read! She's  like 3 months ahead of the curve. DON'T YOU CARE???? I may be forced to post  three separate, long, shaky, dimly lit videos of her reading HOP on POP for everyone to watch to get over this.

Actually it's just her reading the first two pages of HOP on POP over and over again. I think repeated watching could be used to get confessions out of prisoners.




MrsJWine

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2013, 03:23:37 PM »
My three year old acts like a cat because she's just plain weird (even for a three year old). As far as I know, you really can't tell gifted at that age unless they're doing truly advanced things (composing piano pieces, solving math equations, etc).


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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2013, 03:29:17 PM »
Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. [...] But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.

Exactly. Its pointless to run around telling people this kind of stuff. If they really are gifted, it will be evident in some way, usually to the people who will appreciate it the most. If my kid were a genius at chess, at this point only other chess players are going to care. Eventually the skills that make him a good chess player may be appreciated by a school or company or employer ...but still the world at large isn't going to need to know.

I think it was a sig line I saw on Customers Suck that I got this from, but it seems apropos here too. "If someone has to tell you they're trustworthy (or gifted), it's because they know their behavior won't show it. The people who run around claiming their trustworthiness (giftedness) the loudest are the ones you have to watch out for the most."

In this case, rather than trustworthiness, it's the giftedness that Carol is proclaiming for her son, and well, same rule seems to apply. From the description of the behavior, I would've guessed an age of four or five, not nine! I was in a lot of Gifted & Talented programs as a kid, but if I had acted like that? Oooooh, there would have been T.R.O.U.B.L.E. in my world, and no amount of "but she's Gifted!" would have gotten me off from hitting my mother.

Regardless of the status of Connor's mental talents, Jessie is not obligated to make Josh put up with his behaviors if Josh himself isn't interested in a friendship. As far as what to say, maybe something along the lines of, "Oh, we have so much on the calendar right now, I just don't think it's going to happen."
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esposita

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2013, 03:30:52 PM »
Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. [...] But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.

Exactly. Its pointless to run around telling people this kind of stuff. If they really are gifted, it will be evident in some way, usually to the people who will appreciate it the most. If my kid were a genius at chess, at this point only other chess players are going to care. Eventually the skills that make him a good chess player may be appreciated by a school or company or employer ...but still the world at large isn't going to need to know.

I can't believe you took out the part about my kid learning to read! She's  like 3 months ahead of the curve. DON'T YOU CARE???? I may be forced to post  three separate, long, shaky, dimly lit videos of her reading HOP on POP for everyone to watch to get over this.

Actually it's just her reading the first two pages of HOP on POP over and over again. I think repeated watching could be used to get confessions out of prisoners.

 ;D

That sounds adorable, by the way! My oldest just recently stopped getting all antsy with me when I tried to prod him to even say one of the words as I read. He'd say "Mommy! Nonono. I don't know how to read. You have to." (He is, though, still veeery concerned about Will being up hill still.)

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2013, 04:43:18 PM »
I suspect he's learned to play "eccentric genius unfettered by social conventions"

This seems to be exactly what he is doing, for whatever reason. This behaviour continues to be reinforced and his parents do not discourage it or show him that it is rude/socially unacceptable. Even if he is predisposed to be a bit odd (and there is nothing wrong with being off-beat), they are doing him a disservice by allowing it to continue and not teaching him social skills. He may end up getting a rude awakening in the future and that is sad.

This post could have exactly described my cousin. He too was constantly told he was 'gifted' (he was intellectually clever, but let's not go overboard) but deliberately acted 'eccentric' (read: like a rude little twit) and was never corrected. It meant that nobody (children or adults) could stand to be around him. He is now just finishing high school (he is no longer described as 'gifted)' and has a lot of difficulty relating to others (he still tries to be 'eccentric').

As for Jessie and Josh, I would do as others have suggested and put it back on the child. Josh makes his own friends (it doesn't sound like he is keen on it anyway) or has lots of activities on.


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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2013, 04:47:07 PM »
Oh wow. I misread the OP. I thought he was 3 NOW; it sounded like slightly eccentric but somewhat normal behavior that had been indulged a bit too much. But he's 9?? That's not cute or funny or anything like it. He just sounds insufferable. I wonder if Carol is talking up his giftedness so loudly because if she doesn't it becomes pretty plain just how disrespected she is by both her husband and son.


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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2013, 04:52:47 PM »
I can't believe you took out the part about my kid learning to read! She's  like 3 months ahead of the curve. DON'T YOU CARE???? I may be forced to post  three separate, long, shaky, dimly lit videos of her reading HOP on POP for everyone to watch to get over this.

Actually it's just her reading the first two pages of HOP on POP over and over again. I think repeated watching could be used to get confessions out of prisoners.

I have to tell you that this made me laugh out loud.
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EllenS

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2013, 05:06:45 PM »
A few thoughts.

Being truely gifted  and being a socially awkward child do often go together. I knew of exactly one child who was like that. He was 14 years old and in second year university when I was in grad school. I met him first at a social event when he was with a couple of the instructors. My first thought on seeing him move and talk was "Oh, I didn't know that they had a child who was developmentally disabled." He flailed. His speech was unmodulated. He moved oddly.

Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. I get (as a parent) how absolutely wonderful it is to watch your kid grow and learn. My daughter is doing amazing things. I made a 4 minute video of her sounding out words last night and actually starting to read, as my heart burst with pride. (Notice how I snuck that in there :) ) But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.


Anyhow, whether the kid is gifted is irrelevant to the fact that his mother is a bore, his father is a jerk and he is unnerving.

Totally POD to the bold.

And, to the point about social awkwardness, I read some really interesting articles not long ago about a theory in developmental psychology that what we call "special-needs" or "developmental disability" and what we call "gifted" are really just extreme points on a continuum of "asynchronous development."

Most kids develop their intellectual, emotional, physical, and social growth in a similar chronological track that we call "typical". This is the center of the bell curve.  When one of these skill-sets is way out of sync with the others, they need special attention to help them cope in one way or the other.

In any event, it is the parents' job to teach their children appropriate behavior in personal relationships (hitting Mommy is RIGHT OUT) and social interactions.

If the volunteer mom runs out of beandip, I think being busy or one of the sample statements that the son chooses his own social commitments, are both fine.