Author Topic: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - Horn O'Plenty Play Update (Reply #447)  (Read 73459 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sammycat

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6034
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2013, 07:49:25 PM »
Based on the behavior you witnessed, it's impossible to say if Connor is "gifted" or not. It is possible, however, to conclude that Connor is disrespectful and that his mother has not established appropriate boundaries for his behavior. It seems to me that Carol is using the time-honored "my son is gifted so we don't want to stifle him" philosophy to raise Connor. In addition to which,  it's not surprising that Connor is immitating the rude bahavior that Carol's husband is apparently modeling.

Jessie can bean dip but if Carol is persistent, then Jessie would probably be best served by nipping it in the bud. Maybe something like, "Sorry, but with Josh's hectic schedule of scouts, little league and homework, we simply don't have time for play dates."

I agree. 

Connor may or may not be gifted, but one thing he definitely IS is an obnoxious brat, with the apparent encouragement of his parents.

I think Jenna needs to either buy buckets of beandip or simply say that she stopped making playdates for her son once he reached X age or Y grade. Whomever he befriends at this age are the ones he gravitates towards organically, not through forced encounters.

Re. the bolded, I know a teen girl who really does fall into the gifted category, and she is one of the  nicest people I've ever met (I've known her since birth). Her parents wouldn't have stood for a second of bad behaviour, let alone encouraged/condoned it, or used her special gifts as an excuse for behaving badly.

*inviteseller

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1821
  • I am Queen Mommy
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2013, 08:00:29 PM »
Gifted doesn't mean "act like a brat".  My younger DD is advanced, has always been, but all that means is she is ahead of alot of her classmates, not that she can talk to people rudely or act in ways that make others uncomfortable.  Manners are as important to us as academics.   He actually sounds immature..a boy his age pretending to paw at someone and be a cat?  He probably made the other boy extremely uncomfortable.  I would suggest the other mom just say her son is already very busy with his other friends and activities and he sets up his own social time. 

And to answer Turtle Dove, our elementary school has a gifted program that does a weekly get together where they work on more advanced math, science and reading.  But in the classrooms she has been in, the teachers have given her (and the other advanced kids) more in depth work on subjects...the math papers may have harder problems, they get a different and harder spelling list if they ace the pre test on their weekly spelling (she doesn't have my bad spelling gene thankfully), and their homework may be more than basic repetition practice work. 

Marguette

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2013, 08:04:35 PM »
The way the mother talks about him, I almost wonder if she believes in something along the lines of the "indigo children" concept.

Yep, Indigo child was one of the first things that came to my mind, too.

Re @Slartibartfast’s and @EllenS’s comments (#41 & #42) When my daughter was about 10 (and her youngest sister was in kindergarten) she asked, “Why do little kids still have to do kindergarten if they can already read?” I explained that they learn a lot of socialization in K, like listening to the teacher and following directions, taking turns, putting things away after using them (I think the K teacher had recently had a similar talk with us K parents and mentioned the example of the class rule of pushing the chair up to the table whenever they went away from the table), and so on. I’m sure you can think of more examples.

[Funny reply: She thought for a moment, and then commented, “I think some of my classmates either skipped kindergarten, or else they forgot it all.”]

And as for the original question,
Carol will ask repeatedly, we know this.  Now, Jessie feels she is in a bind and wants to know what she can tell Carol to stop her from asking.
I agree with those who recommended that Jessie tell Carol that Josh doesn’t do playdates any more. And not be frustrated if Carol asks again. It would be nice if she does stop asking, but that isn’t the most important thing. The most important thing is to keep saying no. Even if it’s with the same words each time. Doing a “broken record” on Carol relieves Jessie of the need to keep thinking up either new excuses or new beandips.

sammycat

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6034
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2013, 08:15:11 PM »
Now, in Connor's case, I think that he probably doesn't have any friends, due to either his "gifted" label or, more probably, his behavior. So Carol is trying to force Jessie to make Josh be friends with Connor.  Jessie needs to say once, "Josh has a very busy schedule," then dump a vat full of beandip on Carol.

Bingo. If this is the way he behaves all the time then I'd be very surprised if he has any friends at all.

kherbert05

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10253
    • Trees downed in my yard by Ike and the clean up
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2013, 08:20:27 PM »
2 things - I can't help but laugh when I read/hear that walking early is a sign of giftedness.  In my case that part of my history was a huge red flag when I was being diagnosed with an LD. I never crawled. I scooted and bear walked for a couple of weeks then started walking - but I moved my left arm and leg together, then my right arm and leg together. Big red flag with sparkles on it.




Kids not wanting to learn the process because they can see the answers. I run into this every year. Given them a harder problem. Kids don't want to use the manipulatives or follow the algorithm for 2digit + 2 digit with regrouping because they can see the answer. Give them a  4 or 5 digit + 4 or 5 digit with regrouping at every place value. Let them get frustrated. Then explain they need to learn the algorithm to solve this. They see it as a challenge and get the algorithm down so they can solve the Big number problems.


As far as the OP's question - I think I the I don't make playdates for my son is probably the most diplomatic.


The kindest would be Son was creeped out by Connor's behavior, so no they won't be getting together. There is a 1 in a million chance that that would be the clue by four that they had better get a reign on Connor's behavior now before he is a total outcast.


Indigo children - you all are giving me flashbacks horrible horrible flashbacks. Talk about a group of special snowflakes - A group of parents (using the term in the broadest meaning) that thought their kids did not have to obey social norms because they were the next step in human evolution take the cake, the pie, and all the ice cream. I remember thinking as a Mom prattled on about how her child shouldn't be punished for punching someone in the gut because he was an Indigo - that at least the Tomorrow People weren't allowed to harm another sentient beings.


ETA missing word
Don't Teach Them For Your Past. Teach Them For Their Future

Winterlight

  • On the internet, no one can tell you're a dog- arf.
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9735
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2013, 08:29:20 PM »
Connor sounds like a pill, and so do his parents.

Jenna can simply tell Carol, "Josh doesn't do playdates anymore." And then change the subject.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

onikenbai

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1147
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2013, 08:49:45 PM »
Speaking as a reader from age 3 and a Mensan from the age of 11, if I'd acted at any age like Connor did here, my parents would have whipped me straight out the car, no treat, no playing, and probably a smack to boot.  'Gifted', if that is what he is, does not preclude manners or proper behaviour, and no group of Mensans would put up with that behaviour for very long at all. 

Yup, right there with you.  I went through the gifted programme at school, short bus and all.  The kid is being a twerp and should be hog tied for his own good, hit with an etiquette stick, and then just let him be a normal kid.  Harping on how gifted the kid is will only hurt him in the long run.  I've seen many gifted grow up and combust spectacularly under the pressure of the expectations from their parents. 

Calypso

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2739
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2013, 08:52:03 PM »
POD Deetee-----to me, the whole Connor issue is a red herring. If Jason (Jesse?) were my son, I'd never let him within a thousand miles of those adults.

Modeling healthy relationships is one of the most important things parents can do for their children. Connor's Dad obviously treats Mom like garbage, and she accepts it on some level. If Connor were a fabulous kid in every way, I still wouldn't want my son around that---I'd invite Connor over to play with Jason, if Jason was interested, but no way do I want Jason to watch a woman accept being treated like a second-class citizen.

What can the OP say? It's certainly going to be very touchy. I *might* try the truth, if I could do it in a gentle, non-preachy way..."Carol, when I saw Connor hit you and call you fat, well, I'm sorry, but I don't want Jason to think that's ok."


Carol isn't going to be happy about it, but what can she say? That is *is* ok to be punched and belittled?
Don't let her make Connor the issue (because, his behavior isn't about  him, it's about what he's been taught, I believe). His giftedness is irrelevant, in my opinion.

ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2013, 09:49:28 PM »
Anyhow, whether the kid is gifted is irrelevant to the fact that his mother is a bore, his father is a jerk and he is unnerving.

POD.  In addition, in real life it is generally more important to be socially gifted and average mentally than to be mentally gifted but unable to relate appropriately to others in society.

POD

My son is gifted in a few academic subjects, but not gifted at life. He's not going to learn how to behave appropriately on his own.




ettiquit

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1662
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2013, 09:51:44 PM »
Nobody, but nobody cares that your kid is gifted. [...] But aside from a comment to the grandparents and maybe with her teacher, no-one else cares, nor should they. So if you have the next Einstein, that's great but it's not a topic of conversation. I would rather discuss politics than compare developmental stages of children. Much less fraught.

Exactly. Its pointless to run around telling people this kind of stuff. If they really are gifted, it will be evident in some way, usually to the people who will appreciate it the most. If my kid were a genius at chess, at this point only other chess players are going to care. Eventually the skills that make him a good chess player may be appreciated by a school or company or employer ...but still the world at large isn't going to need to know.

I can't believe you took out the part about my kid learning to read! She's  like 3 months ahead of the curve. DON'T YOU CARE???? I may be forced to post  three separate, long, shaky, dimly lit videos of her reading HOP on POP for everyone to watch to get over this.

Actually it's just her reading the first two pages of HOP on POP over and over again. I think repeated watching could be used to get confessions out of prisoners.

This entire post has me rolling.

Piratelvr1121

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10936
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2013, 10:01:13 PM »
2 things - I can't help but laugh when I read/hear that walking early is a sign of giftedness.  In my case that part of my history was a huge red flag when I was being diagnosed with an LD. I never crawled. I scooted and bear walked for a couple of weeks then started walking - but I moved my left arm and leg together, then my right arm and leg together. Big red flag with sparkles on it.


I was never referred to as gifted, but once when discussing the personalities related to birth order (I'm the eldest of two, but I'm also older by 8 years) and I had shaken my head and laughed saying I didn't exactly fit that mold.  Mom told me "You broke the mold."

I never crawled, but instead rolled anywhere I wanted to get to. or so I've been told.  Actually due to not finding out I had congenital hypothyroidism till I was 9 months, I was delayed in some of my milestones so gifted I was not.  Just different. :)

I remember being in a playgroup with a mother who went on and on about how smart her baby was and how she hit milestones before her older daughter was, how smart this child was in comparison because she ate a 100% organic diet, etc. I kept thinking "Thank God your older kid isn't here to hear you make such comparisons!"

My youngest also hit his milestones earlier than his brothers but I chalk it up to him being younger by so many years and wanting to keep up.  My older two walked at 13mos, this one walked at 11mos.  Gifted? Nah, just motivated. :)
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

*inviteseller

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1821
  • I am Queen Mommy
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2013, 10:19:18 PM »
Comparing kids, even siblings is just silly.  Just because the oldest walked at 9 months but the youngest talked earlier means absolutely nothing.  My DD's are 11 years and 4 days apart..and as different as night and day.  The only time there is 'comparison' is when I say "Oh I remember when older DD did that, it was so cute!"  But...they actually both took their first unassisted steps on the same exact day, exactly 11 years apart..the 4th of July when they were both 13 months old (late walkers due to being lazy butts who preferred to scoot on knees-older DD or bum-younger DD  ;D).

 My BFF is always saying her son is so creative..isn't he creative?  He is just so brilliant !  Isn't he brilliant?  No, my friend, he is the most obnoxious ill behaved little snot I have ever had the displeasure of meeting.  I have noticed that the braggarts about their creative kids, their brilliant kids, their free thinking kids usually have entitled little SS's who have not a shred of manners.

Iris

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3867
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2013, 02:47:58 AM »
POD Deetee-----to me, the whole Connor issue is a red herring. If Jason (Jesse?) were my son, I'd never let him within a thousand miles of those adults.

Modeling healthy relationships is one of the most important things parents can do for their children. Connor's Dad obviously treats Mom like garbage, and she accepts it on some level. If Connor were a fabulous kid in every way, I still wouldn't want my son around that---I'd invite Connor over to play with Jason, if Jason was interested, but no way do I want Jason to watch a woman accept being treated like a second-class citizen.

What can the OP say? It's certainly going to be very touchy. I *might* try the truth, if I could do it in a gentle, non-preachy way..."Carol, when I saw Connor hit you and call you fat, well, I'm sorry, but I don't want Jason to think that's ok."


Carol isn't going to be happy about it, but what can she say? That is *is* ok to be punched and belittled?
Don't let her make Connor the issue (because, his behavior isn't about  him, it's about what he's been taught, I believe). His giftedness is irrelevant, in my opinion.

This is wise.

Also I Googled "indigo children". Wow. Just wow.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

Poirot thought you could, but forebore to say so.

AliciaLynette

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2013, 04:41:28 AM »
Speaking as a reader from age 3 and a Mensan from the age of 11, if I'd acted at any age like Connor did here, my parents would have whipped me straight out the car, no treat, no playing, and probably a smack to boot.  'Gifted', if that is what he is, does not preclude manners or proper behaviour, and no group of Mensans would put up with that behaviour for very long at all. 

Yup, right there with you.  I went through the gifted programme at school, short bus and all.  The kid is being a twerp and should be hog tied for his own good, hit with an etiquette stick, and then just let him be a normal kid.  Harping on how gifted the kid is will only hurt him in the long run.  I've seen many gifted grow up and combust spectacularly under the pressure of the expectations from their parents.

Exactly!  I was never told by my parents that I was gifted or intelligent, I was just expected to do my best at all times.  The primary school teacher who kept praising me for being clever actually got the "Why the excitement?" look from me, because I wasn't any better than some of the kids at some of the subjects, I just happened to excel in word-based subjects.
My parents expected manners and good behaviour to be part of the deal. 
I was and still am uncomfortable around people my age, because I grew up around adults mainly, and most kids my age weren't interested in what I was interested in.  That's as much upbringing as 'Gifted-ness' though.  My daughter - bright like me at that age, but incredibly social with kids her own age.  I'm a little jealous, I would have loved to make friends like she does!
Children are natural mimics; they act like their parents in spite of every effort to teach them good manners.
Author Unknown

iridaceae

  • Boring in real life as well
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3810
Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2013, 05:11:32 AM »
Any kid gifted or no can have problems. Learning disabilities,  socialization problems,  wildly inflated egos due to parents: any kid can have these.

The kid's a poorly socialized obnoxious little snot.  His IQ is irrelevant. How his father acts is the biggest reason for Jessie not to let her kid anywhere near him.