Author Topic: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not? - Horn O'Plenty Play Update (Reply #447)  (Read 74096 times)

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Piratelvr1121

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2013, 07:13:37 AM »
Throwing in my lot with those who say it's really the parents that I wouldn't want my kid around. 

About a year ago, maybe more, a friend of our boys invited the middle child to a sleepover.  He went and the next day said "I never want to sleep over at his house again." I asked him why, did he and the boy have a fight.   He said "No, L and I got along just fine, but his parents made me uncomfortable." When asked how he said "Well they were fighting and screaming curse words at each other." 

He hasn't had any more sleepover invitations and tends to just avoid going to that boy's house and I'm not going to push it, either.  I've gotten to know the father a bit more in the past and he really is not the sort of influence I'd want on my sons, either.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

scotcat60

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2013, 07:22:52 AM »
 Connor takes a sweeping bow his with arm behind his back and says, “my apologies, dear woman”.  Carol turned to me and said, “see, he’s gifted with acting”.

Gifted at acting up IMHO.

Caling fellow guests and your mother "Fat" and punching your mother is extremely rude bad behaviour, and should not be countenanced, even in a budding Einstein. Sounds like Connor gets away with murder, knowing Mum will just excuse everything on the grounds of his being "gifted".

Thipu1

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2013, 07:53:19 AM »
We had an Indigo in the family.  She was so badly behaved that even one set of her Grandparents could hardly tolerate her.

Oddly enough, as she matured a bit she started to pale.  She discovered that Indigo is not the favorite color of High School kids and, yes, even an Indigo likes to have a friend or two.

GrammarNerd

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2013, 08:22:31 AM »
I would be tempted to ask Carol, "I'm just curious...why do you keep telling me that Connor is so gifted?"


KimodoDragon

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2013, 11:16:13 AM »
Thanks to all for your great insight.

Today, I will email Jessie some responses from our discussion on how she can decline Carol.  We are volunteering this coming Saturday and I'm sure she wants to be equipped beforehand.

No matter what, this is volunteer work and there is nothing professionally Carol can do to Jessie as backlash for declining. 

YummyMummy66

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2013, 12:31:09 PM »
It seems to me that if Carol has to ask repeatedly for someone to come to play at her house with her son, there is your answer. 

Apparently, her "gifted" child does not have many friends, more than likely not only due to his actions, but also the inaction of his parents.

I would just tell Jessie to decline.  She does not need to give a reason.  Each and every time she ask, "Sorry, that won't be possible, my son has other plans".   


TootsNYC

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2013, 12:35:55 PM »
Connor's giftedness and weird behavior are entertaining, but they aren't really important tot he etiquette question.

You could use what someone once said to me, when I repeatedly tried to arrange a get-together for our girls (they'd been friends in daycare, and DD really, really loved this girl).
"We're pretty busy with our own family and friends."

The message is, "you aren't one of those people; you aren't our friends."
It wasn't something you can argue with. And it's not really rude. It stung a little bit, but I couldn't really argue with it. And it made me stop trying, because it was clear we'd been defined into a different category now that daycare was ended.

Of course, Jessie will continue to have contact w/ Carol; she should then just continue to be pleasant, etc., and act as though this was no big deal. Bcs it isn't.

There's the less definitive, "Our schedule is really pretty busy; Josh doesn't have time."

I don't think it's fair to put it on Josh and say, "I don't push him to go where he isn't interested"--essentially Jessie would be forcing her son to say, "I don't like Connor."  Which would be a rude thing for Josh to say--and he didn't even get to decide to not say it.

There's the "I don't think the boys are that compatible," I suppose. But that's still a bit of a value judgment.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 12:37:29 PM by TootsNYC »

Pen^2

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2013, 01:29:36 PM »
Connor's giftedness and weird behavior are entertaining, but they aren't really important tot he etiquette question.

You could use what someone once said to me, when I repeatedly tried to arrange a get-together for our girls (they'd been friends in daycare, and DD really, really loved this girl).
"We're pretty busy with our own family and friends."

The message is, "you aren't one of those people; you aren't our friends."
It wasn't something you can argue with. And it's not really rude. It stung a little bit, but I couldn't really argue with it. And it made me stop trying, because it was clear we'd been defined into a different category now that daycare was ended.

Of course, Jessie will continue to have contact w/ Carol; she should then just continue to be pleasant, etc., and act as though this was no big deal. Bcs it isn't.

There's the less definitive, "Our schedule is really pretty busy; Josh doesn't have time."

I don't think it's fair to put it on Josh and say, "I don't push him to go where he isn't interested"--essentially Jessie would be forcing her son to say, "I don't like Connor."  Which would be a rude thing for Josh to say--and he didn't even get to decide to not say it.

There's the "I don't think the boys are that compatible," I suppose. But that's still a bit of a value judgment.

This is perfect.

Ensure that poor Josh is aware of what he can do also, because these sound like the kinds of people who might corner him despite him being a child. I've seen it happen. Josh can just keep saying, "I need to ask my parents," while he swiftly backs away. Or whatever Jessie thinks will work best. But I fear that Josh is aware that Connor's mother is trying to get them to 'play' together and it would be good to get rid of any fears he may have bubbling away that this may end up happening. Just in case. There isn't much doubt that he's aware, just like a lot of other kids it appears, that Connor isn't someone he wants to spend time with.

EMuir

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2013, 02:29:02 PM »
I was really doing well in Grade 1, to the point that the teacher was giving me loads of extra work and I was happily completing it.  Then they decided the best way to address it was to move me up a grade (skip a grade).  I never recovered socially, and never really fit in with either the grade I joined or the grade I left.  It basically pointed me out as "different" and we all know that's the kiss of death in public school.

I would never, ever label a child gifted even if they were.  I'd provide them extra learning material and encourage their interest in advanced material.  The poor kid is probably trying to cope with the expectations, and getting no leadership from his parents in how to be a decent person.

TurtleDove

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2013, 03:44:16 PM »
I would never, ever label a child gifted even if they were.  I'd provide them extra learning material and encourage their interest in advanced material.  The poor kid is probably trying to cope with the expectations, and getting no leadership from his parents in how to be a decent person.

This is how I see it too.  I skipped first grade and did not suffer socially, but I can absolutely see how this could happen (I moved schools so I did not stand out as "that girl who skipped first grade" but rather "that new girl").  I think if the goal for labeling children as "gifted" is to push them to accomplish something (what I am not certain) then okay, but I haven't seen any evidence personally that "gifted" people accomplish more later in life than the average Joes.  If the goal is to have the "gifted" students be best prepared for society I don't think telling them they are special and different and better than everyone else is the way to go about it. 

BeagleMommy

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2013, 04:04:00 PM »
My parent's next door neighbors' son was a "Connor".  He was intellectually advanced and socially inept.  His mother didn't believe in discipline because it would "stifle his creative juices" (her exact words).

He is intolerable.  No one likes to be around this young man (he's now 25) and he has no friends (his age or otherwise).  He is fond of calling anyone who isn't at his intellectual level a moron.  This has included teachers and his boss.

He refused to go to the local college where is father worked (and could have gone for free) because he "deserved" to go to an Ivy League college.  He moved to Large City because Hometown wasn't good enough for him.  He is now working as a clerk in a law firm but feels he should be a paralegal because he's so smart even though he has not taken any type of law classes (his degree is in English).  He doesn't earn enough to buy food for himself and was arrested for shoplifting a sandwich from a convenient store.  He is now banned from all of that chain in the state.

Jill should just tell Carol that her son is busy and makes his own social arrangements.

Twik

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2013, 04:06:43 PM »
I would never, ever label a child gifted even if they were.  I'd provide them extra learning material and encourage their interest in advanced material.  The poor kid is probably trying to cope with the expectations, and getting no leadership from his parents in how to be a decent person.

This is how I see it too.  I skipped first grade and did not suffer socially, but I can absolutely see how this could happen (I moved schools so I did not stand out as "that girl who skipped first grade" but rather "that new girl").  I think if the goal for labeling children as "gifted" is to push them to accomplish something (what I am not certain) then okay, but I haven't seen any evidence personally that "gifted" people accomplish more later in life than the average Joes.  If the goal is to have the "gifted" students be best prepared for society I don't think telling them they are special and different and better than everyone else is the way to go about it.

Is it any different than telling the kid who can snag down a fly ball blindfolded that he's an all-star? Or crowning a prom queen who's particularly graceful and lovely? Or regularly giving the solo in glee club to one girl because she has a voice that makes angels weep with joy? Why should academically strong students be the only ones who are *not* noticed for their talents, even if this ends up with them sitting around twiddling their thumbs while the teacher explains the commutative principle one.more.time to those who just don't get it?

If you're going to argue that children shouldn't be made aware in any way that "they are special and different and better than everyone else" because of their intellect, it is only fair to argue that for the whole spectrum of human achievement. We should recognize no stars of any kind.
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JeanFromBNA

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2013, 04:11:00 PM »
"Indigo" children sound like another color of special snowflake.

MrTango

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2013, 04:13:14 PM »
If I were in Jill's position, I wouldn't beat around the bush about this.  I'd say "Jesse will not be coming over to play with Connor."

I have the opinion that if someone asks "why not?" to that statement, they kind of dserve to hear the truth, even if it hurts.  "Because I refuse to subject my son to the sort of antisocial behavior Connor displayed at [event]."

TurtleDove

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Re: "Gifted" Child - Engage or Not?
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2013, 04:20:07 PM »
Is it any different than telling the kid who can snag down a fly ball blindfolded that he's an all-star? Or crowning a prom queen who's particularly graceful and lovely? Or regularly giving the solo in glee club to one girl because she has a voice that makes angels weep with joy? Why should academically strong students be the only ones who are *not* noticed for their talents, even if this ends up with them sitting around twiddling their thumbs while the teacher explains the commutative principle one.more.time to those who just don't get it?

If you're going to argue that children shouldn't be made aware in any way that "they are special and different and better than everyone else" because of their intellect, it is only fair to argue that for the whole spectrum of human achievement. We should recognize no stars of any kind.

You misunderstand me.  I am absolutley all for recognizing stars and opposed to the idea that everyone gets the same participation ribbon regardless of effort or talent.  I am questioning what the goal is in labeling a student as "gifted," especially when (in my experience and in many experiences related here) it has a negative effect on the overall development of the person.

For the talented baseball player, they are not labeled as "gifted" - their talent speaks for itself.  For the singer, same things.  For the intellectually gifted, what is the goal in separating them and telling them they are special?  Let their acheivements speak for themselves - let them be valedictorian, or win the essay contest or spelling bee. Let them learn to use their gifts in a positive way rather than isolate themselves as unable to interact with the ungifted masses?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 04:23:11 PM by TurtleDove »