How sensible is it to practice for Thanksgiving?

[sparksals]

Poultry is all cooked to the same temperature whether it's chicken, turkey, duck, or game fowl

Yes but a chicken typically isn't as big as a TG turkey so the cook times don't really apply.   I would do about 20 mins per pound for a chicken.  Never seen charts for them like Turkey bc of the size difference. 

Toots was using a probe thermometer, so consulting a cooking time chart doesn't apply because poultry is all cooked to the same temperature of 165F.  When using a probe thermometer, you don't set a timer, you set a temperature.  However long the bird takes to cook is however long it takes to cook.  Sure you can estimate how long it should take to cook, but you don't take it out until the thermometer has gone off.

People are misunderstanding.  I am not saying the temp is different.  Just that the turkey charts don't apply b/c the size of the bird is so much bigger than a chicken.  No one is cooking a chicken for 4.5 hours.  A chart for chicken is kind of pointless since there isn't the need to consult the time/weight factor since it is so much smaller. 

[TootsNYC]

I don't think we're misunderstanding.

We're saying, the "turkey chart" doesn't apply, because I wasn't using *time*.

And, anyway, it doesn't apply, because I used a chicken chart.

And because the "how many minutes?" chart often goes by pound anyway, and so of course a 6-pound turkey would cook pretty much the same as a 6-pound chicken.
And a 12-pound chicken would cook pretty much the same as a 12-pound turkey.

Other than size, they aren't particularly different. And the chart takes size into account.

But thanks for looking out for me!

[ladyknight1]

That's why I don't brine - it means you can't use the pan juices for gravy, or stuff the turkey, without it getting too salty.

Is this true?

Never happened in the decade I have been brining. I rinse after brining before air drying the bird. I also never use foil.

[TootsNYC]

Thanks for the info! I think I may try to bring a chicken and roast it this weekend.


(and I've just realized that I can use the leftover sort-of-bland gravy AND the just-a-bit-overcooked meat from Experimental Chicken #1, and combine them, heat them up, add some Previously Frozen Veggies, and put them over the Guinea Pig Potatoes. That'll use them up AND make dinner! (I can even add some spices or a splash of wine when I reheat the gravy to keep it from being so bland. That'll make it Experimental Gravy 1.5.)

[jpcher]

Thanks for the info! I think I may try to bring a chicken and roast it this weekend.


(and I've just realized that I can use the leftover sort-of-bland gravy AND the just-a-bit-overcooked meat from Experimental Chicken #1, and combine them, heat them up, add some Previously Frozen Veggies, and put them over the Guinea Pig Potatoes. That'll use them up AND make dinner! (I can even add some spices or a splash of wine when I reheat the gravy to keep it from being so bland. That'll make it Experimental Gravy 1.5.)

Just curious as to your experimental gravy recipe . . . how did you make it?

[sparksals]

I don't think we're misunderstanding.

We're saying, the "turkey chart" doesn't apply, because I wasn't using *time*.

And, anyway, it doesn't apply, because I used a chicken chart.

And because the "how many minutes?" chart often goes by pound anyway, and so of course a 6-pound turkey would cook pretty much the same as a 6-pound chicken.
And a 12-pound chicken would cook pretty much the same as a 12-pound turkey.

Other than size, they aren't particularly different. And the chart takes size into account.

But thanks for looking out for me!

I think this is where the disconnect is.  I have never seen a chicken chart before since a chicken is so much smaller than a turkey.  I don't typically use a thermometer for a chicken because it is 5 pounds max and I know that 20 mins per pound is pretty accurate and I don't stuff like I do a turkey . That is why I see a turkey completely different than a chicken.

[Dindrane]

Toots, my favorite Thanksgiving-leftover casserole (that I sometimes make with chicken whenever I'm in the mood for it) is shredded turkey (or chicken) mixed with cranberry sauce and spinach (because I like spinach) or green beans. I usually do cream of mushroom with that, but you could probably also do gravy. Then I top the whole thing off with stuffing (which would of course only work for you if you made some gluten free stuffing).

But the point of that is, cranberry sauce in chicken or turkey casserole turns it a little pink, but is super delicious. If you decide to try it and use canned sauce, the whole berry kind doesn't turn the casserole as pink as the jellied kind.

I love making chicken casserole with roasted chicken, though. None of the other ways of cooking chicken are as flavorful, and it definitely beats canned chicken. Since I've mastered the art of shredding chicken with two forks, using roasted chicken is even more awesome.

[TootsNYC]

I just made a basic gravy. But I didn't add much flavoring.

* skimmed most of the fat from chicken drippings.
* deglazed the pan with Swanson's chicken broth (about 2 cups)
* added a little salt & pepper and Bell's (but I think my Bell's is old)
* made a slurry of cornstarch (2 Tbsp, maybe too much)
* heated until thickened; it also turned dark brown

I was mostly aiming at getting comfortable w/ the process, especially the thickening.

I think the next time, I'll try my friend's suggestion of pureeing some of the veggies (though I'll have to nuke them, bcs they didn't get really soft since the chicken didn't cook that long).

And I now have some homemade vegetable broth, so I might try that instead of canned chicken broth.

[jpcher]

I'm guessing your Bell's is old, or you didn't use enough. I've never used it (I looked up the ingredients) and it sounds quite flavorful.

If you're going to use the pureed veggies make sure you taste them before adding them to your stock. Sometimes all of the flavor is already cooked out so it won't add much taste to your gravy.



I'd like to suggest that you use some fresh (or powdered) herbs (instead of the Bell's) to enhance the flavor. Some of the standard turkey herbs are parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme (sounds like a song, doesn't it? ) You should use the same herbs to season both your turkey and gravy so that the flavors of the turkey and gravy meld . . . So if you're using Bell's on your turkey, use it in the gravy.

http://www.ehow.com/way_5572034_herbs-spices-use-turkey.html

Page 1 (not the intro) talks a little about the herbs. (As a side note, I always add lemon to my turkey/chicken gravy. Cornish hens I use oranges.) So maybe think about a bit of something fruity to flavor your gravy . . . deglaze your pan with apple juice if you're using apples as part of your savory veggie stuffings . . . you know, that sort of thing.



I'm placing my bet on you, Toots, for the win. Your dinner is going to be awesome!

[TootsNYC]

OK, today is "brining a chicken" day!

Thanks for the herb tips, jpcher!

I've always liked Bell's

Oh, and my cornstarch gravy was sort of a coagulated lump, but I put it on a pre-cooked baked potato w/ some shredded chicken and zapped it for lunch yesterday--it needed salt and pepper, but it was a nice lunch! I don't know that I'd consider it sensible to have served that gravy one its own, so not sure how it would have worked as "intentional leftovers."

Oh--on the giveaway shelf at work were two small boxes of "Chicken Soup for the Soul" turkey gravy. It has flour, but I'm going to keep it on hand in case the gravy doesn't come out right--everybody else can use that gravy.

[Rohanna]

Oh, and if you need to "cheat" with clumpy gravy and start over I've had success running the liquid through a fine mesh strainer to filter out the lumps. It's not perfect but it's better than yucky gravy or worse, no gravy

[TootsNYC]

I'm thinking that clumping is more likely with flour. Am I wrong?

[Dazi]

How to thicken any hot liquid with cornstarch (as taught to me by my Nana):

Get a small dish, spoon in some corn starch, add cold water while stirring vigorously (It should be more liquid than pasty), set slurry to the side

Cook whatever to boiling, remove from heat for a minute or two, stir in slurry vigorously

put back on the heat, do not stop stirring, let come back up to a light boil for about a minute

remove, let set for 5 minutes

Ta-da

[jpcher]

I'm thinking that clumping is more likely with flour. Am I wrong?

It all depends on the technique. If your cornstarch slurry was lumpy when you added it to the liquid, then Yes. You will end up with lumpy bits in your gravy. For the corn starch, do what Dazi said. It is imperative that you get all the lumps out of your slurry before adding it to your stock base.


Flour -- again, depends on your technique. If you add a flour slurry to your stock base, then it's real easy for lumping to occur. I've never found success with this method.

Are you totally opposed to the gluten-free rice flour? I posted upthread that I prefer a flour roux based gravy but it is a must that you wisk/stir constantly to remove the clumps while you slowly add the liquid a bit at a time . . . stir, add liquid, stir until smooth, add liquid, stir until smooth, add more liquid, etc. . . . It might take as much as 10-15 minutes of constant stirring to incorporate all of your pre-made stock. Plus this type of gravy stores well and is easy to reheat.


I usually use the corn starch method for small amounts of last-minute gravy . . . more like a thickend sauce type of thing.


Making a rich, thick, flavorful gravy really isn't as simple as it sounds . . . try the rice-flour roux. It sounds like you have plenty of stock, so you're good to go in that area.




At the very least, you have back-up gravy boxes to serve.

[TootsNYC]

My experience with rice flour is that it is grainy. I will not have that.

Sweet rice flour seems to work without grains (from what I've read), but I don't have that, and I haven't seen it in my normal shopping places.

I have a Tupperware shaker that's great for making a slurry--I don't end up with lumps with it.

And it's WAY fast--much faster and less tricky, it sounds, than cooking a roux while stirring constantly, etc.

If I want to make practice gravy, do I *have* to have pan drippings? Can I just go w/ stock and cornstarch, or use butter and whatever flour substitute?