Poll

Do you sometimes think we were better off when (check one you feel strongest about)...

...television wasn't yet 24/7?
16 (17.4%)
...you had to wait until certain calendar dates to see special movies on TV?
10 (10.9%)
...there were no ATMs?
0 (0%)
...telephone bills were always determined by usage?
2 (2.2%)
...cell phones didn't exist?
17 (18.5%)
...you had to actually learn long division?
20 (21.7%)
...penmanship was considered important?
25 (27.2%)
...cameras weren't digital?
2 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 92

Author Topic: For anyone born before 1965  (Read 4211 times)

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NestHolder

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2013, 03:08:32 PM »
24/7 television - no opinion on it.  Didn't watch much as a child, or a teen, don't watch much now.

I don't remember ever noticing special movies on TV one way or the other.

I love ATMs!

Telephone bills - *shrug*

I am very fond of my mobile phone.  I play card games on it.  And it's useful for phone calls, occasionally.

Long division - well, I like that I can do it, but it's not exactly a fun time, is it?  I mean, I'll use a calculator if there's one handy.  Wouldn't everyone?

Penmanship - hmm.  Once upon a time I used to write stories in longhand.  Now I can type them directly on to my computer (and share them with people) - and I can type a lot more quickly than I can write.  I admired my MIL's beautiful handwriting, but I'm more concerned about bad spelling than bad handwriting.

I love my digital camera!  It makes life so much easier, and I, as a very poor photographer, don't hesitate to take pictures any more.

In other words, yay progress!


GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2013, 03:36:13 PM »
Well I was born after '65 (heck my mom was born after '65), however I still learned long division. In fact I'm very confused by this. Are kids actually not learning long division? Am I thinking of long division the wrong way?

As for private cell conversations in public, I always remember some great advice my grandma gave me: If you're having a private conversation in public, it's no longer private. Which is why I'm careful about when/where I use my cell phone and what I'm saying. Telling my mom I'll meet her at the movies? No big deal. Talking about a suspicious rash? Have that in private. I do get annoyed by the phone always in the hand syndrome my friends seem to suffer from. Put it down. It's ok, you can hear it ring, that's the point of the ringer.

My grandma taught me cursive (moved and the school I was at didn't teach until later grades and the one I moved to wanted me to already know it), but she writes in script (very beautiful, very hard to read). So my penmanship is a bit wonky. And when I write fast, forget it. I have to write very slowly to get it to look nice. But when all the planets align just right, I get the pretty script-ish writing. Never as nice as my grandma's.

Clockwork Banana

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2013, 12:15:22 PM »
24/7 television - no opinion on it.  Didn't watch much as a child, or a teen, don't watch much now.

Long division - well, I like that I can do it, but it's not exactly a fun time, is it?  I mean, I'll use a calculator if there's one handy.  Wouldn't everyone?

In other words, yay progress!

But that is just it!  Sometimes a calculator is not available on the spot.  Take this for an example:  You are on the floor working in a store which is running a promotion of say, Buy Two and get one Free.  The customer comes up to you and wants to know how much each item will cost under the promotion.  Or the deal is 30% off, and again the client wants to know what the discounted price is.  If you cannot at least do that very basic math in your head, then you are going to look somewhat unprofessional.

And, I dare to say that I disagree that it is not "a fun time".  I like the feeling of accomplishment when I can tot things up manually, either in my head, or for more complicated problems, on paper.

Oh, and I wanted to add something about the side discussion about book reading in public.  I was one who was guilty of that.  I would often have a book at parties or gatherings, and would sometimes  have my nose stuck in. (Introvert and all that jazz).  I was told many a time that it was rude and antisocial, so I stopped doing it.  But today it seems that the rules have changed.  Yes, it is still perceived as rude to read, or based on other threads I have read, knit or crochet, whilst in the presence of a group.  But somehow, the constant checking, texting or game playing on a mobile device gets a pass.

veronaz

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2013, 12:23:08 PM »
Quote
Yes, it is still perceived as rude to read, or based on other threads I have read, knit or crochet, whilst in the presence of a group.  But somehow, the constant checking, texting or game playing on a mobile device gets a pass.

Very good point.

Venus193

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2013, 12:23:51 PM »
Quote
Yes, it is still perceived as rude to read, or based on other threads I have read, knit or crochet, whilst in the presence of a group.  But somehow, the constant checking, texting or game playing on a mobile device gets a pass.

Thank you for that.

In other discussions people have said that a teen playing with a portable game at the home of his parents' friends is OK because he'd otherwise be bored.  I disagree because there will always be times when we can't do what we'd prefer to do at the moment.   My parents would have said "You can always read when we get home."

NestHolder

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2013, 10:53:13 AM »
24/7 television - no opinion on it.  Didn't watch much as a child, or a teen, don't watch much now.

Long division - well, I like that I can do it, but it's not exactly a fun time, is it?  I mean, I'll use a calculator if there's one handy.  Wouldn't everyone?

In other words, yay progress!

But that is just it!  Sometimes a calculator is not available on the spot.  Take this for an example:  You are on the floor working in a store which is running a promotion of say, Buy Two and get one Free.  The customer comes up to you and wants to know how much each item will cost under the promotion.  Or the deal is 30% off, and again the client wants to know what the discounted price is.  If you cannot at least do that very basic math in your head, then you are going to look somewhat unprofessional.

And, I dare to say that I disagree that it is not "a fun time".  I like the feeling of accomplishment when I can tot things up manually, either in my head, or for more complicated problems, on paper.

I'm the customer in the store, and I do work out the prices for myself, and no, I don't take a calculator with me.  Not sure what that has to do with long division, though.  And I don't feel particularly accomplished, I just do it and get on with my life.  That's not to say other people aren't entitled to take pride in being able to do mental arithmetic, just to say that I am perfectly happy not to spend the mental space on it if there's an alternative.  Like, there's a little sign on the supermarket shelf telling me how much per unit something costs, so I don't have to work it out for myself.  I'd rather be telling myself a story in my head than doing mental arithmetic, most of the time.

Tea Drinker

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2013, 11:50:54 AM »
24/7 television - no opinion on it.  Didn't watch much as a child, or a teen, don't watch much now.

Long division - well, I like that I can do it, but it's not exactly a fun time, is it?  I mean, I'll use a calculator if there's one handy.  Wouldn't everyone?

In other words, yay progress!

But that is just it!  Sometimes a calculator is not available on the spot.  Take this for an example:  You are on the floor working in a store which is running a promotion of say, Buy Two and get one Free.  The customer comes up to you and wants to know how much each item will cost under the promotion.  Or the deal is 30% off, and again the client wants to know what the discounted price is.  If you cannot at least do that very basic math in your head, then you are going to look somewhat unprofessional.

And, I dare to say that I disagree that it is not "a fun time".  I like the feeling of accomplishment when I can tot things up manually, either in my head, or for more complicated problems, on paper.

I'm the customer in the store, and I do work out the prices for myself, and no, I don't take a calculator with me.  Not sure what that has to do with long division, though.  And I don't feel particularly accomplished, I just do it and get on with my life.  That's not to say other people aren't entitled to take pride in being able to do mental arithmetic, just to say that I am perfectly happy not to spend the mental space on it if there's an alternative.  Like, there's a little sign on the supermarket shelf telling me how much per unit something costs, so I don't have to work it out for myself.  I'd rather be telling myself a story in my head than doing mental arithmetic, most of the time.

Pre-printed unit prices are a great help: otherwise I'm doing the math of, say, 523 divided by 14, and comparing that with 479 divided by 12. (If the packages are the same size, I don't need unit prices for the comparison.) Calculator or paper and pen, please. Mental arithmetic is for knowing that I can give the cashier $20.03 and get $4.75 in change, instead of giving them a twenty-dollar bill and getting pennies back. (The amount of friendly comment I get lately when I count out exact change for something like $6.12, instead of handing them just bills, surprises me--but it doesn't take mental arithmetic to reach into my pocket and see whether I have twelve cents in coins.)
Any advice that requires the use of a time machine may safely be ignored.

Virg

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2013, 10:30:19 AM »
Clockwork Banana wrote:

"But that is just it!  Sometimes a calculator is not available on the spot.  Take this for an example:  You are on the floor working in a store which is running a promotion of say, Buy Two and get one Free.  The customer comes up to you and wants to know how much each item will cost under the promotion.  Or the deal is 30% off, and again the client wants to know what the discounted price is.  If you cannot at least do that very basic math in your head, then you are going to look somewhat unprofessional."

The problem is that this isn't long division, it's basic arithmetic, and I think you'd have an extremely hard time finding a school that doesn't teach this.  Sure, you can find people who didn't learn it well, or don't care, but the bullet point in the survey talked about "having to learn it" and this level of math is still in the curriculum.  On the other side, the number of times I've been called upon to perform long division on the spot in my everyday life is roughly never and I work in a tech field.  The reason long division has fallen out of favor is that it's just not all that useful to everyday life (at least in a situation where you can't procure a device to help you solve it) and as I said before, there's nothing stopping anyone from learning it on their own or teaching it to their own kids.

"Yes, it is still perceived as rude to read, or based on other threads I have read, knit or crochet, whilst in the presence of a group.  But somehow, the constant checking, texting or game playing on a mobile device gets a pass."

I suspect that the people who feel that reading in a group is rude also feel that playing a game in a group would be rude.  The difference is that more people have taken to the idea that neither of these things is necessarily rude any more.  The "constant checking" however, deserves special note because I find that it's very subjective.  I was out once with my brother and his wife, and several others.  One of those others told me later that my brother's constantly dealing with his cell phone was annoying to him.  But I was there, and my brother "dealt" with his cell phone twice in the course of more than five hours, and neither time for more than ten seconds.  Now, I do understand that there are plenty of people who are much worse than that, but at the same time I've taken pains to examine my perceptions and I've found that more often than not, the large majority of people don't spend excessive amounts of energy on their devices when in groups.


venus193 wrote:

"In other discussions people have said that a teen playing with a portable game at the home of his parents' friends is OK because he'd otherwise be bored.  I disagree because there will always be times when we can't do what we'd prefer to do at the moment."

I find this to be situational, because there's a range of interaction among everyone present to be considered.  To give an example from my youth, my parents attended a dinner party and took myself and my brother along.  We were told to be sociable and not to disappear to do our own thing, but when we arrived, the "hello" and a handshake were the last things the hosts ever said to us.  The conversation involved subjects beyond our ability to participate and so we sat silent for several hours and then left.  It's easy to say that them's the breaks, but at the same time I can now comfortably say that the hosts were very rude to exclude two of their guests entirely from the proceedings, and so if I found myself and my kids in the same position I wouldn't consider them rude to go read or play a device rather than sit in a chair and be ignored.  In a situation where the hosts or other guests were engaging them in conversation, I'd expect them to participate, but if not then they'd get a pass just like any adult that got entirely ignored by the hosts.

Virg

Syfygeek

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2013, 10:54:54 AM »
Most of the people I know who are willing to discard penmanship are the ones who didn't get good grades for it in school.  I was taught the Palmer method in 3rd grade, but my cursive has changed somewhat and I have a few letter forms that are different.  One teacher I had in high school had cursive that never deviated from the Palmer forms and I thought that was a bit creepy because her handwriting wasn't unique to her.  Everyone else I knew had distinctive handwriting.

I learned cursive in the 3rd grade, and my hand writing was never great, it was legible, and neat, but never, ever as good as "the examples". No teacher complained until 9th grade- my English teacher counted off a 1/2 point for every spelling error in a research paper, and since my r's didn't have that upswing, she counted off every word that had an r in it.

I miss the rarity that TV used to be- I'd go thru the TV Guide and circle what I wanted to watch, which would then get preempted by what my dad wanted to watch. Oh, but to read about shows on channels we didn't get, made me so jealous!

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Venus193

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2013, 11:12:24 AM »
Here's one I had a while back as its own thread:  Movie theatre intermissions for long films.

Thanks to the fact that films in general are longer than in years past and sodas sold in movie theatres are larger, people need a break.  Also, films are not really being produced that have natural breaks for intermissions.  Movies like Gone With the Wind and The Godfather have those -- and better storytelling -- than most of what gets produced today.

Virg

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2013, 02:35:45 PM »
Syfygeek wrote:

"I learned cursive in the 3rd grade, and my hand writing was never great, it was legible, and neat, but never, ever as good as "the examples". No teacher complained until 9th grade- my English teacher counted off a 1/2 point for every spelling error in a research paper, and since my r's didn't have that upswing, she counted off every word that had an r in it."

Your teacher sounds like she was a passive-aggressive jerk.  If she wanted to take marks off for bad penmanship, then she should simply have done that, but to take spelling points off because she didn't like the way you formed your letters is something I'd expect from a ten-year-old, not an educator.


Venus193 wrote:

"Movies like Gone With the Wind and The Godfather have those -- and better storytelling -- than most of what gets produced today."

Those movies had better storytelling than most of the movies produced in their own eras as well, and better than most movies that had breaks.  It's not the existence of intermissions that made them great.

Virg

guihong

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #71 on: November 04, 2013, 02:43:33 PM »
I think a lot of so-so movies were automatically better with two cartoons and popcorn with real butter ;).



Venus193

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Re: For anyone born before 1965
« Reply #72 on: November 04, 2013, 03:09:54 PM »
Virg, I never said that.  What makes those films work with intermissions is that there is a natural break in the story.  The writing  that produced this may have been done that way because they needed to change reels, something that doesn't need to be done anymore.