Author Topic: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles  (Read 7978 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

amandaelizabeth

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 773
    • Amanda's home based ece
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2013, 09:45:09 PM »
I used to be employed by a children's charity which did much needed good deeds.  We had as a patron a member of the Royal Family who I personally thought was silly and misguided.  Being on the other side of the world I did not give it much thought, until they came here on a visit.  They wanted to check in the charity and I was included in meet and greet.  I simply volunteered to man the phones  that day, and smiled sweetly when other staff members consoled my on my missing out on shaking of the royal hand. 
If present at a Loyal Toast I simply pass my drink over my water glass.  It is not that I am a great fan of the Stuarts but just like to add a subtle hint that maybe Victoria did not have a claim on the throne.

nolechica

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6095
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2013, 11:32:36 PM »
I don't say Amen, Under god, or put my hand over my heart for the anthem.  Anyone that comments on protests is being nosy IMO.

CakeEater

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2522
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2013, 12:39:43 AM »
I don't say Amen, Under god, or put my hand over my heart for the anthem.  Anyone that comments on protests is being nosy IMO.

Just being curious - what does hand on your heart during the anthem signify?

nolechica

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6095
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2013, 02:05:10 AM »
I don't say Amen, Under god, or put my hand over my heart for the anthem.  Anyone that comments on protests is being nosy IMO.

Just being curious - what does hand on your heart during the anthem signify?

Same as a salute, but out of uniform http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner

Gyburc

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1663
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2013, 05:56:51 AM »
There is a line in a Dorothy Sayers novel that is instructive.

"The first thing a principle does is kill someone."

Now, I think that may be a little strong. But holding principles is almost guaranteed to cause trouble somewhere - otherwise, we'd just call them preferences. One can only make sure that one is standing by principles that are worth the trouble.

I agree - and OT, the quote is from Lord Peter Wimsey in Gaudy Night - one of my favourites!  :)

When you look into the photocopier, the photocopier also looks into you

poundcake

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 992
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2013, 08:54:53 AM »
There is a line in a Dorothy Sayers novel that is instructive.

"The first thing a principle does is kill someone."

Now, I think that may be a little strong. But holding principles is almost guaranteed to cause trouble somewhere - otherwise, we'd just call them preferences. One can only make sure that one is standing by principles that are worth the trouble.

Well, I guess I'm going to go off to my room to write that hit song "Alone in My Principles!"

Karen is just fine. Nowhere is she lecturing, chastising, or berating anyone else for doing something differently than what she does or believes. The organizer, on the other hand, is rude, and, depending on what she does next, could veer into ridiculous.

I, too, decline to participate in the Pledge, the NA, and public prayer. I've never said anything about it to anyone, ever. To my knowledge, people don't notice. I will stand respectfully while others do, but it is my personal choice to not take part. There is nothing rude in that. Forcing someone to participate in activities that they do not wish to or are not comfortable participating in, however, is extremely rude. It sounds like the organizer is in a tough spot and may not have the spine to stand up for Karen, and that the third party complainer will likely continue to make this an issue. I hope Karen has a calm reply prepared, and, depending, if the third party complainer continues to complain, it could turn into a civil rights issue.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 08:57:12 AM by poundcake »

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 30461
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2013, 12:41:41 PM »
If present at a Loyal Toast I simply pass my drink over my water glass.  It is not that I am a great fan of the Stuarts but just like to add a subtle hint that maybe Victoria did not have a claim on the throne.

'Splain, please?

I scent something interesting here.

Winterlight

  • On the internet, no one can tell you're a dog- arf.
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2013, 01:44:15 PM »
It's a reference to the Jacobite movement in Great Britain back in the 16th-17th centuries. 

Some Scottish clans still pass their drink over their water glass during the Loyal Toast as a symbol of the King over the Water- James II of England, who was deposed in 1688 in favor of his daughter Mary. The crown passed then to her sister Anne, and went from her to the Hanovers, in Germany. James had produced a son by his second marriage, but serious questions were raised about whether the child was actually his (this was known as the Warming Pan Plot, wherein it was claimed that the child had been smuggled into his wife's chamber in a warming pan.) There were a lot of other complex issues, including James's Catholicism, which brought about the decision to depose him and put his Protestant daughter Mary on the throne.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 02:35:54 PM by Winterlight »
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

Shea

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4095
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2013, 05:16:02 PM »
I think Karen is perfectly fine here. It's analogous to standing up but declining to put one's hand over one's heart or say the Pledge of Allegiance, or saying the Pledge but falling silent during the "under God" portion. I did that throughout my high school years due to personal beliefs whenever we said the Pledge, and I don't think anyone even noticed. It's not causing a fuss, it's not being disrespectful, it's simply quietly declining to participate in an act which goes against one's principles. The complaining woman needs to mind her own business.


If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, librarians are a global threat.

kherbert05

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10191
    • Trees downed in my yard by Ike and the clean up
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2013, 10:21:52 AM »
Karen is the only polite person in this story. She is like many people who are polite while others express religious/political views they don't agree with.

The person complaining is slightly better than than the woman that smacked Sis and I on the head for singing O Canada at a Astro's Vs Expos game at the Astrodome. (Mom was Canadian, we considered ourselves duel citizens - but never looked into the legalities)

The official is an idiot and is chastising the wrong person (complaining woman needs to be told shut up or get out)
Don't Teach Them For Your Past. Teach Them For Their Future

Jocelyn

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2889
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2013, 11:42:26 AM »
A sideline:
What are those in attendance who are not British supposed to do during this toast?
I've been told that Americans do not curtsy when introduced to the Queen, as we do not curtsy to the President. Is it considered appropriate for an American to drink the toast, even though they are not a loyal subject of Her Majesty?

Winterlight

  • On the internet, no one can tell you're a dog- arf.
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 9665
Re: Politely Sticking to Your Beliefs/Principles
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2013, 05:34:32 PM »
I think the proper thing to do is what Karen did- rise but not drink.
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls