Author Topic: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake? Update p79  (Read 10339 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Elfmama

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6301
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2013, 09:56:18 PM »
My family can do whatever they want after I'm dead, but I really don't want them to spend a ton of money.

You can plan and pre-pay your arrangements ahead of time.  That spares your family from having to decide amongst themselves (while grieving, no less) exactly what you wanted and how much you felt was reasonable to spend.  Aunt Susie may not like it but at least Uncle Joe can say, "It's not my doing, it's what Mrs. Wine said to do.".
Planning ahead of time is fine. But what happens if you pre-pay for arrangements and then move?  Or die in an accident while traveling?  If my parents had pre-paid when they lived in Florida, where they expected to live the rest of their lives, they would have wasted their money.  They're now in Assisted Living in Oregon, near my sister.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
It's true. Money can't buy happiness.  You have to turn it
into books first.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Winterlight

  • On the internet, no one can tell you're a dog- arf.
  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 10019
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2013, 11:31:50 PM »
I recently lost my mom. She told us she didn't want a burial (she chose cremation) and no services. Two of the organizations she was involved with asked us to allow them to do a celebration of life for her, and we had a lovely one which mom would have liked.

I think if it gives comfort to the bereaved, the rest of us need to stay out of it. Ceremonies help us mark milestones, and picking the one that assisted them is not something to huff at them over.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 10:22:24 PM by Winterlight »
If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,
Five things observe with care,
To whom you speak,
Of whom you speak,
And how, and when, and where.
Caroline Lake Ingalls

CakeEater

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2884
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2013, 02:16:43 AM »
Quite honestly, there's something unpleasantly controlling about ordering your loved ones not to mark your passing in a way of their own choosing. It may come from a good place ("I don't want them to be stressed out trying to arrange a big ceremony, I hate the thought of them all grieving in my name.") Guess what? They're going to grieve no matter what you tell them, and perhaps wish for a ceremony, just the same.

If it is a matter of religious or philosophical belief, I can understand not wanting a particular *type* of ceremony. But ordering your loved ones, "Just put me in the ground and forget about me!" is fooling oneself, if one does it in the belief that it would ease their pain, not make it worse.

I was about to write something like this.

I think that holding a religious service for an avowed athiest, or failing to organise a religious service for a practising member of whatever religion would be wrong - you honour those sorts of requests. But other than that, the living should do whatever they need to, within reason.

Making very specific or emotionally difficult requests of your nearest and dearest is far from kind. You'll no longer be there to be concerned anyway.

MariaE

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4751
  • So many books, so little time
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2013, 02:52:18 AM »
Quite honestly, there's something unpleasantly controlling about ordering your loved ones not to mark your passing in a way of their own choosing. It may come from a good place ("I don't want them to be stressed out trying to arrange a big ceremony, I hate the thought of them all grieving in my name.") Guess what? They're going to grieve no matter what you tell them, and perhaps wish for a ceremony, just the same.

If it is a matter of religious or philosophical belief, I can understand not wanting a particular *type* of ceremony. But ordering your loved ones, "Just put me in the ground and forget about me!" is fooling oneself, if one does it in the belief that it would ease their pain, not make it worse.

I was about to write something like this.

I think that holding a religious service for an avowed athiest, or failing to organise a religious service for a practising member of whatever religion would be wrong - you honour those sorts of requests. But other than that, the living should do whatever they need to, within reason.

Making very specific or emotionally difficult requests of your nearest and dearest is far from kind. You'll no longer be there to be concerned anyway.

I agree with this. Respect the religion (or lack of same) of the deceased, but other than that, do what brings you comfort.

I'm a practising Christian and definitely want that respected. But other than that? Big funeral / small funeral. Burial / cremation... What do I care? I'm dead anyway and not likely to notice  ;)
 
Dane by birth, Kiwi by choice

JoieGirl7

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7463
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2013, 03:34:07 AM »
One cannot really be rude to the dead.  The people it would be rude to, to disrespect the wishes of the dead are the people closest to that person.

In this case, it was the closest people to the deceased who made the decision to do something slightly different and no one should be criticizing them for it. No one outranks a widow and the sons.

When my mom died we used a Cremation Society.  I cannot say enough good things about them.  They were so respectful and caring.  And it was inexpensive.  Only $1750 for cremation.

That was my mother's wish.  Now, what to do with her ashes after was a little more vague.  She and my father wished to have their ashea scattered together somewhere.

My uncle (my mom's brother) was absolutely horrified by this.  He felt that it went against his religion which was the same relitgion my mom was.

In order not to offend him, I have my parent's ashes in my home in a dignified place where they are not disturbed.  When my uncl eventually passes, I will scatter my parents' ashes together.

It is the best way to honor everyone's wishes living and dead.

My friends and I used to discuss planning the music and readings for our own funerals.  I asked a prominemt church musician what music he had planned for his own funeral and he said "You know, you should learn before you die not to control everything and certainly in death be able to let go."

He hadn't planned out his own funeral at all.  I think people shoud make certain decisions for themselves but ultimately leave the details to a trusted family member.

After all, if there is anytime to let go, it is defintely after you are dead.

Ceallach

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4815
    • This Is It
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2013, 06:55:49 AM »
Funerals & wakes are very, very, very important to me as part of the resolution and moving on experience.   If a family member didn't want a funeral I would absolutely respect that e.g. their final wishes for formality and how their body was disposed of and would not hold a funeral service, but I would still want a gathering of my family for *me* to help me grieve.   Because funerals aren't just about the dead, they are about the living.   

Therefore I find it a little upsetting that anybody would judge a bereaved person for holding a wake.    How can it possibly be "rude" to invite your family and friends to an event to remember a loved one?   Ok, so I can think of ways in which it might be - gimme pig registries, potlucks without enough food etc.... but the simple act of holding a big wake?   No.   I truly cannot believe that this would be rude.     I think it is uncharitable to think of it as such regardless of the circumstances.

When somebody dies I personally like to give their family an etiquette pass for a short while.  It seems the right thing to do.   We're not at our best when grieving, our priorities are elsewhere, it's about coping and about learning how to move on. 
"Nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something"


Bijou

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 13041
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2013, 07:19:38 AM »
I would never call it rude, and I think they are staying within the wishes of the person by not having a funeral.  I would also never second guess the decisions of the children of the person who has passed on.  Why make it harder than it already must be for them? 

In the newspaper I see more and more that there will be 'no services at the request of the deceased' and often there are 'celebrations of life', held even months later, rather than traditional funerals.  I think that a family needs to do what feels right to them, and maybe saying no services is a way of relieving them of the expense and possible pain of going through the preparations and so forth, of a funeral.  I have told my family that I don't want services, but I also let them know that whatever they feel they need to do is OK, too.
I've never knitted anything I could recognize when it was finished.  Actually, I've never finished anything, much to my family's relief.

Psychopoesie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 978
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2013, 07:30:29 AM »
I can't see how holding a wake is rude either.

It seems to me that the family was trying to balance the wishes of the person who died with the emotional need of those grieving to have a proper goodbye.

That's not always easy. I noticed a few posters who've said it would be wrong to have a religious ceremony for someone who wasn't religious themselves.  Well, that's what happened with my dad.

He was not religious. My stepmum is. He prepaid his funeral once he knew he didn't have long to live. This included a service in the funeral parlour, not the church.

When he died, my stepmum found she really wanted the support of her religion during the ceremony. So we (my half-brother and I) agreed to have it in the church, with a priest Dad liked and had met several times over the years (and knocked back the occasional whisky with).

Everything else was just as Dad had planned - including cremation, not burial (which stepmum's religion frowns on). No one made out that he was a believer in or a supporter of that particular religion. We scattered his ashes in the sea, just as he requested.

It was a huge comfort to my stepmum though. Dad did love her very much - so I can't see how doing this dishonoured his memory.

Losing a loved one really sucks. It's not easy making decisions in the aftermath. Cutting the bereaved some slack during that time seems like the kindest thing to do.







iridaceae

  • Boring in real life as well
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2013, 07:35:02 AM »
 


If it is a matter of religious or philosophical belief, I can understand not wanting a particular *type* of ceremony. But ordering your loved ones, "Just put me in the ground and forget about me!" is fooling oneself, if one does it in the belief that it would ease their pain, not make it worse.

My mother didn't want a funeral. We didn't have one. We didn't do a wake and I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted one; the people who we thought should know about the death knew.

But Twik I guarantee you that we didn't "just forget her". What a ....not nice thing to say. Insinuate.

Piratelvr1121

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 11567
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2013, 07:54:54 AM »
My family can do whatever they want after I'm dead, but I really don't want them to spend a ton of money. They can have a funeral, or they can have a cremation and nothing else. But I plan to haunt them if they shell out a massive amount of money over my dead body. If I were to give those instructions, it wouldn't mean, "Don't do anything to remember me." It would mean, "Don't spend half of the life insurance payout on my stupid coffin."

I'm much the same way. I know I want to be cremated and told my DH "no viewings, there's no point in spending the money on a casket if I'm not going to be buried in it!" Besides that, it's really up to him just what they do to remember me.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

Twik

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 28769
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2013, 09:17:51 AM »


If it is a matter of religious or philosophical belief, I can understand not wanting a particular *type* of ceremony. But ordering your loved ones, "Just put me in the ground and forget about me!" is fooling oneself, if one does it in the belief that it would ease their pain, not make it worse.

My mother didn't want a funeral. We didn't have one. We didn't do a wake and I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted one; the people who we thought should know about the death knew.

But Twik I guarantee you that we didn't "just forget her". What a ....not nice thing to say. Insinuate.

I'm not at all insinuating that the relatives of the deceased would forget them.

I think that some people before death hope that their loved ones *can* "forget about them". No one wants to think of their loved ones weeping for them. But telling them not to mourn is like telling the tide not to come in. If having a ceremony to help the grieving process helps, then they should be allowed to have one.

"Don't mourn for me" may come from a loving place, but it's an impossible command. At some point, we must accept that we can't control our loved ones' reactions, and insisting on no outward mourning is no better than demanding that they spend the rest of their lives in black.
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

veryfluffy

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2966
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2013, 01:13:41 PM »
I noticed a few posters who've said it would be wrong to have a religious ceremony for someone who wasn't religious themselves.  Well, that's what happened with my dad.

He was not religious. My stepmum is. He prepaid his funeral once he knew he didn't have long to live. This included a service in the funeral parlour, not the church.

When he died, my stepmum found she really wanted the support of her religion during the ceremony. So we (my half-brother and I) agreed to have it in the church, with a priest Dad liked and had met several times over the years (and knocked back the occasional whisky with).

Everything else was just as Dad had planned - including cremation, not burial (which stepmum's religion frowns on). No one made out that he was a believer in or a supporter of that particular religion. We scattered his ashes in the sea, just as he requested.

I would say that if the deceased had specifically stated they wanted (to the extent of arranging and paying for!) a non-religious funeral, I'd see it as utterly disrespectful to their memory to hold one. Even if they didn't make claims that the deceased was a follower of that religion, it basically serves to negate and belittle their right to have not been a believer. What if the deceased was a Catholic, and their surviving spouse an atheist who decided not to bother with a Catholic service for them because they didn't believe in it?

   

onikenbai

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1162
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2013, 02:33:18 PM »
My family can do whatever they want after I'm dead, but I really don't want them to spend a ton of money. They can have a funeral, or they can have a cremation and nothing else. But I plan to haunt them if they shell out a massive amount of money over my dead body. If I were to give those instructions, it wouldn't mean, "Don't do anything to remember me." It would mean, "Don't spend half of the life insurance payout on my stupid coffin."

Little known fact:  you can rent a coffin.  As long as you don't plan to do the grave side thing and actually lower the coffin into the ground, you're good.  If you just do the church or funeral parlour service and then the person gets magically transported away for burial or cremation, they swap out the expensive wood coffin for a cardboard box after everybody has gone home.  They re-use the wood coffin only four or five times before they consider it to have enough wear and tear and some lucky person just gets buried in it.  It may not be universal, but it's available in many places and a lot cheaper than buying a $4000 box.  Also, I always feel that if I'm going to buy that much gorgeous wood I want to put it in my living room instead of the ground.

Psychopoesie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 978
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2013, 02:56:31 PM »
I noticed a few posters who've said it would be wrong to have a religious ceremony for someone who wasn't religious themselves.  Well, that's what happened with my dad.

He was not religious. My stepmum is. He prepaid his funeral once he knew he didn't have long to live. This included a service in the funeral parlour, not the church.

When he died, my stepmum found she really wanted the support of her religion during the ceremony. So we (my half-brother and I) agreed to have it in the church, with a priest Dad liked and had met several times over the years (and knocked back the occasional whisky with).

Everything else was just as Dad had planned - including cremation, not burial (which stepmum's religion frowns on). No one made out that he was a believer in or a supporter of that particular religion. We scattered his ashes in the sea, just as he requested.

I would say that if the deceased had specifically stated they wanted (to the extent of arranging and paying for!) a non-religious funeral, I'd see it as utterly disrespectful to their memory to hold one. Even if they didn't make claims that the deceased was a follower of that religion, it basically serves to negate and belittle their right to have not been a believer. What if the deceased was a Catholic, and their surviving spouse an atheist who decided not to bother with a Catholic service for them because they didn't believe in it?


He was my dad and I loved him very much.

It didn't feel disrespectful to me.

CakeEater

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2884
Re: "No funeral for me, please" = big, fancy wake?
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2013, 03:26:29 PM »
I noticed a few posters who've said it would be wrong to have a religious ceremony for someone who wasn't religious themselves.  Well, that's what happened with my dad.

He was not religious. My stepmum is. He prepaid his funeral once he knew he didn't have long to live. This included a service in the funeral parlour, not the church.

When he died, my stepmum found she really wanted the support of her religion during the ceremony. So we (my half-brother and I) agreed to have it in the church, with a priest Dad liked and had met several times over the years (and knocked back the occasional whisky with).

Everything else was just as Dad had planned - including cremation, not burial (which stepmum's religion frowns on). No one made out that he was a believer in or a supporter of that particular religion. We scattered his ashes in the sea, just as he requested.

I would say that if the deceased had specifically stated they wanted (to the extent of arranging and paying for!) a non-religious funeral, I'd see it as utterly disrespectful to their memory to hold one. Even if they didn't make claims that the deceased was a follower of that religion, it basically serves to negate and belittle their right to have not been a believer. What if the deceased was a Catholic, and their surviving spouse an atheist who decided not to bother with a Catholic service for them because they didn't believe in it?

It sounds like in this case, that everyone agreed that Dad loved stepmum more than he would have insisted on a non-religious funeral, and would have wanted what was comforting to her.

Although I agree in general, that this sort of thing shouldn't happen.