News: All new forum theme!  See Forum Announcements for more information. 

  • July 07, 2015, 09:26:14 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack  (Read 9718 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Softly Spoken

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 692
  • "I am a hawk on a cliff..."
Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« on: November 28, 2013, 02:41:21 PM »
I had to share this and I guess it fits here the best.

I was downtown yesterday after an appointment waiting to catch the bus home. This particular main street where the bus stops is always filled with very...ummmm...colorful...individuals.  ::)

As it was rush hour I was waiting with a sizable crowd for the bus to unload when one such individual behind me decided to strike up a conversation with the young lady in front of her and to my left. The "conversation" went something like this:

Nosy Older Busybody: *very loudly* "My Deity do you realize how short your skirt is? Does you mother let you go out of the house like that?"
Twenty-something-looking Girl: *cool stare and deadpan* "Yes."
N.O.B: *continues loudly* "Why would you wear a skirt like that? Don't you know what happens to girls who wear short skirts like that? You'll be lucky if you aren't raped and killed wearing that skirt!"
Me:  :o*muttering out loud to no one in particular* "Oh. my. Deity."
Skirt Girl:  ::) :-X*ignores ranting NOB because you don't engage the crazy*
Annoyed Man Behind Me: "Hey back off lady, her skirt isn't that short. I've seen worse." (My reaction to the last line:  ???)
N.O.B: *continues rant about short skirts leading to rape and murder in some alley somewhere, but now directs ire at man*
Annoyed Man: *realizes he broke the 'don't-engage-crazy' rule* "Okay whatever I'm not going to debate you about it." (My thought: Because of course the apparel of a complete stranger should be loudly debated by two other complete strangers!  ::))

I did not witness the end of this encounter, because I paid my fare and fled to the back of the bus knowing that N.O.B. would most likely sit up front. If she had continued I think the bus driver would have thrown her off.
I found it interesting that the man chose to defend against what the woman was saying about the girls skirt, instead of calling her on her right to say it. I would have thought "mind your own business" would be a more accurate response than "the unsolicited opinion you have chosen to inflict on a total stranger happens to be inaccurate." I don't see how he thought the best way to diffuse the situation was to somehow change the woman's opinion of short skirts. I think it was a roundabout way of telling her to hush the blank up, i.e. you are wrong = there is nothing more to be said/end of 'discussion.'

You know, people complain about how we are all isolated and plugged into our devices everywhere we go, but I'm not completely against it if it lowers your chances of having to deal with scenarios like the one I just described. Luckily, when I don't have my earbuds in I can rely on the guidance of eHell. ;)
"... for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
-William Shakespeare

"We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't."  ~Frank A. Clark

Iris

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3867
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 02:54:05 PM »
I see your point about the man and what he said, but if I'm honest I suspect that in the same situation I would probably have said something like "Leave her alone, I think she looks lovely!" And then realised 4 hours later that I was just as rude.

So I guess I'm willing to assume his *intentions* were good, but execution was poor. If nothing else at least he drew focus onto himself.

How awful for the poor young girl though. What a dreadful woman to attack her like that.
"Can't do anything with children, can you?" the woman said.

Poirot thought you could, but forebore to say so.

Softly Spoken

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 692
  • "I am a hawk on a cliff..."
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 03:40:54 PM »
Oh I agree Iris. I think he was just trying to diffuse the situation as best as he knew how.

I sometimes find it frustrating that it is apparently rude to tell people to mind their own business when that is exactly what they should be doing. Like if he or even the skirt girl had told her to MYOB, she would have been all "how dare you etc. etc. and free speech / it's a free country yadda yadda."

It doesn't seem to be on the approved list of eHell phrases but how do other people feel about a statement like "I don't see as that is any of your business"? Because sometimes it really really isn't!
"... for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
-William Shakespeare

"We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't."  ~Frank A. Clark

Pen^2

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 04:06:54 PM »
I agree with PPs. He probably thought, "This nasty so-and-so is being horribly rude! We all have to suffer it, including that young lady!" and did his best on the spot to try to diffuse it. It didn't work, and in the end he was rude (but far better than the nasty so-and-so, in my book), but I think the intention was in the right place. As the young lady seemed to already realise, anything she said, no matter how sound, would have been met with crazy yabbering. The man realised this too late.

"So kind of you to take an interest" can be quite encouraging to some people. I think "I don't see as that is any of your business" is more of a "leave me alone," but I'm not sure if it's etiquette-approved.

BeagleMommy

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3446
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 11:03:23 AM »
I agree that the man was trying to diffuse the situation, but he may have made it worse by creating a debate.

The girl in the skirt could have responded "I'll give that all the consideration it deserves."

RooRoo

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 717
  • I’m out of my mind. Please leave a message.
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 08:03:59 PM »
"How kind of you to take an interest" is not said as if you think the person was being kind to take an interest! It is not even said in a neutral tone of voice. It is said very coldly, with raised eyebrows if possible. One then turns away before they can answer. Essentially, it is an etiquette-approved way of saying "Mind your own [expletive] business, you [expletive]!"

Thanks to this board, I have learned that having good manners does not mean having to be nice to absolutely everybody, no matter how awful they are. It just means that we do not descend into using foul language when we are forced to deal with bacon-fed knaves.*

*I chose that phrase; it's not a result of the filter!  ;D
…though he by no means wished to accept the invitation, he had not yet acquired the necessary power of decidedly saying No.
     Mrs. Edgeworth, The Parents Assistant, “The Mimic;” 1795

Softly Spoken

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 692
  • "I am a hawk on a cliff..."
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 11:20:17 PM »
"How kind of you to take an interest" is not said as if you think the person was being kind to take an interest! It is not even said in a neutral tone of voice. It is said very coldly, with raised eyebrows if possible. One then turns away before they can answer. Essentially, it is an etiquette-approved way of saying "Mind your own [expletive] business, you [expletive]!"

Thanks to this board, I have learned that having good manners does not mean having to be nice to absolutely everybody, no matter how awful they are. It just means that we do not descend into using foul language when we are forced to deal with bacon-fed knaves.*

*I chose that phrase; it's not a result of the filter!  ;D

Ah yes I forgot about tone. Not that rude people are masters at recognizing nuance.  ::)
Your comment sort of reminds me of the saying about the definition of diplomacy as the art of telling someone to go to (eHell) in such a way that they look forward to taking the trip.  ;D There is something wickedly satisfying about occasionally using the strategic position of the high road to drop a karmic water balloon on someone... >:D
"... for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."
-William Shakespeare

"We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't."  ~Frank A. Clark

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 33225
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 09:03:35 PM »
Quote
. I would have thought "mind your own business" would be a more accurate response than "the unsolicited opinion you have chosen to inflict on a total stranger happens to be inaccurate." I don't see how he thought the best way to diffuse the situation was to somehow change the woman's opinion of short skirts. I think it was a roundabout way of telling her to hush the blank up, i.e. you are wrong = there is nothing more to be said/end of 'discussion.'

He was thinking on his feet. I think he did fine.

Bales

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 207
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 12:06:02 PM »
Would it have been rude if he struck up a conversation with the NOB?  Something along the lines of:

NOB: "blah blah blah, you'll be lucky if you're not raped and killed wearing that skirt...."
Annoyed man:  "That's so great of you to show your concern.  You know what else leads to murder? Making unsolicited and rude comments about someone's attire.  Just wanted to warn you like you're trying to warn this nice young lady."

Ok, maybe that would be rude, but it would have been nice to see!   >:D

JoieGirl7

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7606
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 01:14:28 PM »
Sounds like no one really needed to say anything at all.  The girl herself was handling it just fine by not reacting to it.

Allyson

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2237
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 10:25:43 PM »
I "love" how people seriously think that certain outfits actually make one more likely to be the victim of a crime. Not only is this offensive, it's also statistically inaccurate. Anecdotal evidence (as in 'me and people I've talked to about this issue') show it doesn't even make one less likely to get harassed in public (except apparently by overexcited bus stop ladies..). I have been catcalled when wearing a huge winter coat and ignored when dressed in club clothes.

Lula

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 120
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2013, 07:54:47 AM »
But wearing short skirts IS dangerous.  You risk being assailed by nosy grannies and their wandering opinions.

Sounds to me like somebody needs to lecture this busybody about the legitimate danger of picking fights with strangers at a city bus stop.  One of these days she's going to provoke the wrong person.

Let Them Eat Cake

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 12:14:09 PM »
I'm kind of late for this one, but I figured I'd vent, because this totally reminds me of something that happened to me a couple months ago.

I was walking down the street with my boyfriend, and this woman pulled up and started going off on me about how short my skirt was, and "do you really want boys looking at you?"-- this was, mind you, a relatively conservative black knee-length skirt and not form-fitting in the least. This woman was nuts. (And even if it had been a neon bodycon skirt or something, it wouldn't have been her or anyone else's business to begin with.) We decided not to engage her and kept on walking, and she kept on following us in her car, saying, "I'm just letting you know so you don't wear it again!" Pretty soon, I just turned to her while she was mid-sentence and dismissively went, "Have a nice day!" And that's when she finally decided to throw in the towel and keep on driving. There's a lot to be said for "killing them with kindness" I guess.

Not-so-ironically, the day my boyfriend lost his belt and spent the whole day with his pants falling down, nobody followed him in their car chewing him out for it. Seems like the fashion police only goes after women. ;/
"Jan, a real friend likes you for who you are, not what's on your face. If you judge your friends for passing judgment on you, you're not only judging yourself you're judging your friends for judging you. And that would be using bad judgment." - Mike Brady, The Brady Bunch Movie

Minmom3

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2600
  • Not super patient these days.
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 12:54:01 AM »
IMO, that's because men, for some odd reason, are not as submissive when people offer unsolicited opinions on their garments.  It's just not part of the whole male schtick to give a hoot and holler what other men wear, but women are supposed to CARE when people share their opinions...  We're supposed to receive that information politely. Gratefully.
Newly widowed, fairly cranky, prone to crying at the drop of a hat.  Newly a MIL; not yet a Grandma.  Keeper of chickens and dispenser of eggs! ;D  Owner of Lard Butt Noelle, kitteh extraordinaire!

Kiwipinball

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 722
Re: Not-So-Kind Interest - Fashion Police Attack
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 09:42:50 AM »
IMO, that's because men, for some odd reason, are not as submissive when people offer unsolicited opinions on their garments.  It's just not part of the whole male schtick to give a hoot and holler what other men wear, but women are supposed to CARE when people share their opinions...  We're supposed to receive that information politely. Gratefully.

I think a lot of it goes to the double standard. The only phrases I know for shaming men who sleep around (not that there's any need to shame adults who have committed no crimes) is to add the word "male" in front of a word usually used to shame women. Women are not supposed to sleep around, are supposed to dress in ways that don't lead to them getting raped, etc. Of course, the outfit one wears does not actually lead to rape (or fend it off), but that's the attitude that's still out there. Although most people, thankfully, do not follow people and criticize their outfits from cars. For which we can all be grateful.