Author Topic: I don't want that person in my house UPDATE Post #95, Pg 7  (Read 14586 times)

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caroled

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2013, 10:50:27 AM »
To me it is just rude.

I recently had a somewhat similar experience,... A few years ago I had a Christmas party and invited a few friends/ neighbors and a few co-workers. Once I issued the invitations, I had 2 different CW ask if  I was inviting  So and  so. I replied no and was asked why? don't you like her??? I liked her fine and no she is not invited.
Another former CW/friend ask if she could bring a friend. CW didn't drive at night but really wanted to come so I relented. We ended up with a guest list/ sit down dinner for 12.

2nd year I decided to once again have the party. Guest list was almost exactly the same except for CW and her driver. One of the guests from the previous year accepted the invitation and showed up at the appointed time with a guest of her own in tow :o .( this being someone who had been the year before and saw our set up and our space limitations as well as it being a sitdown dinner.) Also CW who asked about issuing invitation to so and so... she told a different CW on year 2 who apparently really wanted to come... is so dissapointed... can she come too???..... no!

Years 3 and 4 I only invited a couple neighbors so there were only 6 of and and it was lovely!

This year,  I don't know what got into me to think it would be any different but I wanted to have the slightly larger party again, so I mentioned to 3 of my CWs that I was THINKING about it .
Within 4 days one CW had already invited a guest of her own and another had asked was I going to invite other former CW .I told her no, hadn't planned to.  " Oh, really, I thought since you had worked with her once before..."   She asked about 4 different ways , I told her not really, but I'll think about it. I called her back a few days later and told her not invite her... you have been to my house twice before for this party and you know our space. Her reply... " well, I thought you meant to anyway so I already did" at which point I reminded her that I never said I actually was giving the party... merely thinking about it, so she had best call her back and recant her invitation.
Next day I got a call from my CW who said she probably couldn't come anyway and since she couldn't another CW ( the one who previously brought her own guest) wasn't either. I told her OK we'll miss you both.
It just feels like they want to use my house as a venue with free food so they can hang out with the people they want to rather than come see me. And thats hurtful.

Then I proceeded to plan my redeuced size party with just the neighbors and look forward to a wonderful time. It's next Sun evening and I can't wait :)

Having said all that, I am firmly in the camp of it is just plain rude to put the hostess on the spot, and then not to accept no for an answer but to keep on asking until you get the desired answer.

Rude.

GreenHall

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2013, 10:59:30 AM »
Caroled,
It was nice of your coworkers to convince you to do the more pleasant, for you, event.  Even if they didn't realize that's what they were doing.  ;)

caroled

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2013, 11:22:47 AM »
Yep, they are just special like that !  ;D

artk2002

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2013, 01:29:36 PM »
I would think that the guest could say, "Oh, I'd love to, but I think I'd better say no--my cousin is visiting from out of town, and I can't really leave them home alone."

Any generous host would assume that an invitation to the cousin would be welcome.

I've never agreed with the "it's not rude to ask" idea. There are situation in which it truly "doesn't hurt to ask," but they're never about someone else's hospitality. (They're stuff like, can I get an extra pat of butter at the restaurant; do they have this in a size 8 in the back; etc.)

Goodness - didn't we just have one ( or more ) long threads about whether or not "I can't go" need more explanation.  One of the frequent assertions is that if you don't want to go somewhere, you should say something vague like "I'm sorry I can't make it due to <XYZ>" and a polite asker will not probe for more details but accept that answer as final.

Potential Guest: "I can't come because my cousin is in town"
Potential Host: "That's OK! Cousin can come too!"
50% of Guests think "I'm so glad <host> asked, we really wanted to come!"
50% of Guests think "Darn <host> is rude, I really don't want to go and now I have to find _another_ reason!"

That second 50% need to grow up, frankly. It's very easy to respond "Thanks, but we've got plans already. Enjoy your party!" Neat, simple and true (even if plans are for a session of omphaloskepsis.) An invitation is not a summons. If the host keeps insisting, then they are being rude and then it's time to stop JADEing. "I'm sorry, it just won't work" is another fine, truthful answer.  Leave the conversation at that point because, from (generic) your perspective, the topic is finished.

I would think that the guest could say, "Oh, I'd love to, but I think I'd better say no--my cousin is visiting from out of town, and I can't really leave them home alone."

Any generous host would assume that an invitation to the cousin would be welcome.

I've never agreed with the "it's not rude to ask" idea. There are situation in which it truly "doesn't hurt to ask," but they're never about someone else's hospitality. (They're stuff like, can I get an extra pat of butter at the restaurant; do they have this in a size 8 in the back; etc.)

I agree for the most part. The one hospitality-related situation that I can think of is when the host has clearly violated the "social unit" rule. Because lots of people are casual about writing invitations ("Of course, Bob can come, I thought that was understood"), clarifying is a necessity these days.

I don't know why there's so much insistence that if an answer might be "no", it's rude to ask. I don't think asking puts someone on the spot. If you can't answer right away, you can say, "Oh, well - let me get a head count and I'll call you back!"

If you have to say no, say no. The asker knew that was a possibility when they asked.

Not necessarily.  They might think the person would say yes and be put out when the answer is no.  I always feel on the spot and that I MUST say yes if people ask, especially if I don't know them well.

But if they're put out by a "no", then they are the rude ones. Why do you care about the feelings of a rude person? I may regret having to say "no" because I like to say "yes", but I'm not going to take responsibility for someone else's feelings if they can't handle a "no" when they ask a question. I'm not responsible for their happiness!
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

TootsNYC

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2013, 01:47:53 PM »
My girlfriend has asked if she can bring me to open house style parties, because we live in different cities, so her friends (even if they've met me) aren't going to think of me, the way they would if we lived together. I don't know if the answer is sometimes "no"; I suspect she checks with them first, something like "Tea Drinker might be visiting that weekend, is it okay if I bring her along?" rather than "so-and-so is having a party, do you want to come that weekend or would you rather visit the weekend before or after?"


Is it possible your friend is saying, "I should probably say no, since Tea Drinker will be visiting me that weekend"? That's acceptable--hints are fine.

Directly asking is what's rude.

It's a form of "social blasphemy"--usurping the rights of the diety/hostess.

mrs_deb

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2013, 05:54:49 PM »
PennyandPleased, have you already responded to Jenny?

I'm concerned that when you say no, not after how she treated all of us at the wedding, she might push back with a, "Oh, I'm sure she'll be fine...she's really sorry about how she acted at the wedding...she was under a lot of stress...it won't happen again..." etc.  Just making sure you're prepared for a push-back.

wolfie

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2013, 10:31:08 PM »
I agree that it is situational whether or not it is rude to ask.  Jenny was rude; she knows the OP doesn't like Claire and asking put her on the spot.  But if it had been her 3rd cousin, once removed, that Jenny wanted to introduce to all her friends and said cousin was a nice, polite individual?  I think it would be OK.

Years ago, my Mom was hosting Thanksgiving and had invited another family.  Their daughter would be home from university and so would be joining us.  Daughter invited a foreign student, with no where else to go, home with her, knowing that my Mom wouldn't mind another body at the table.  She did call and ask Mom if it was OK, once she was home, a couple of days before the dinner.  It didn't hurt that said student was the nationality of my Mom's paternal side of the family.  I'm sure daughter was prepared to stay home with her friend if she needed to.

The only stress for my Mom would be if the addition made 13 at the table.  Then she'd be wracking her brain, trying to figure out who might not have somewhere to go so she could invite them to make it 14.  That happened more than once.  For a very down to earth, no nonsense lady, she had a lot of superstitions.   :)


This would be a problem for me.  I have 8 chairs and only 8 chairs. Christmas and TG are the only sit down dinners I do, so if I am preparing a major holiday dinner and someone springs on me another guest, I may not have the seat, plate etc for them... this is why it puts the host on the spot.  It would put me in hugely uncomfortable position to spring an extra guest on me I have no room for and I have to say no.   That makes me look very unhospitable.

But again, it is situational.  If I know you well, I know that you couldn't fit someone else in.  But everyone knew that my Mom was a collector of strays and orphans on holidays, cooked enough food to feed an army and wouldn't object to one more.  If it was a formal dinner party (and she had those, too), it never happened that someone would bring an extra.

Unless it is your first invitation so you have no idea what the host is actually going to do. I had that happen to me one year. I was hosting a sit down dinner for some folks who had nowhere to go on Christmas Day. A few hours before I was expecting everyone I was told a guest was bringing a guest because he was all alone on Christmas too. Guest A always had potluck dinners so I am assuming she figured that was what everyone did and therefore one more person wouldn't hurt. I wasn't planning a potluck dinner. I was planning an evening that involved a cooking implement that could only accommodate 6 people. Luckily guest B was guest number5 (and to be honest I was young and didn't think I could say no) so it wasn't too much of a problem.

Ever after Guest A has asked me before inviting someone else. And I have told her I have the guest list under control as I have no interest in hosting a dinner party for folks I don't even know.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2013, 10:41:09 PM »

And yes, be prepared for the fact that Jenny may choose to skip your party and spend time with her sister.

Well, Jenny has a previous commitment. And since she can't reconcile them, it would be rude for Jenny to leave her sister alone in order to go to *any* social engagement.

So it's not really "Jenny choosing to skip the OP's party"; it's "Jenny has plans for that night already, and it would be rude of her to change them."

Good point Toots, I didn't think of it that way.

Although this raises another interesting question - is it ALWAYS rude to leave a guest by themselves to attend another function? What if your guest is staying for a month? Are you really expected to decline all social invitations in that period, so that your guest is not left alone? Or what if your guest has other plans for that day, anyway? Is it ok then, to attend a social event?

*inviteseller

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2013, 11:30:04 PM »
If someone I invited to an event at my house asked me if they could bring someone I didn't know or did know and didn't like, I would rescind the invitation and never extend another one.  I find it rude for people to fish for a +1 to everything. 

aussie_chick

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2013, 11:48:51 PM »
Op you are not being unreasonable in the slightest. You do not have to accommodate/host anyone in your home who you do not want there.

The crux of the issue for me is how to explain this to Jenny. I think this is a great big "it depends".

You seem really close with Jenny so if you could be honest with her, I think that's the best way. "Jenny, unfortunately it won't be possible for Claire to come to the holiday party." Then either leave it at that or a small extension of "due to the way she treated me and other guests at your wedding, i'd prefer not to have her there"

If Jenny suggests Claire has changed, Claire is different. You can reply "that might be the case, but no she can't come" and then bean dip.

I don't think it's necessarily rude of Jenny to ask if she can bring someone. In my circle this would depend on the type of event it was. A holiday house party with a "more the merrier" tone, it would be fine to ask to bring a date or another friend.

A sit down meal or more formal event, I still wouldn't mind anyone asking, providing they were happy with me saying no!

The rudeness here may be that the person is Claire, in which case I think telling Jenny straight is the best way.

Otherwise, if Jenny did come on her own and saw that others had brought a guest she would wonder why. Or if she didn't come and heard from the Op or other guests that so and so brought such and such and it was so nice to meet them, it might cause a rift.

Marbles

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2013, 05:40:14 AM »
I think that Jenny probably didn't think the request through. I can see that from her perspective, she had the biggest problems with Claire at the wedding, but now thay have mended their rift and all is well. Jenny may not have recognised that Claire burnt many bridges at her wedding, so she thinks that their reconciliation is enough to make Claire welcome when it is not.

This is why one does not fish for invitations.

camlan

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2013, 09:05:10 AM »

And yes, be prepared for the fact that Jenny may choose to skip your party and spend time with her sister.

Well, Jenny has a previous commitment. And since she can't reconcile them, it would be rude for Jenny to leave her sister alone in order to go to *any* social engagement.

So it's not really "Jenny choosing to skip the OP's party"; it's "Jenny has plans for that night already, and it would be rude of her to change them."

Good point Toots, I didn't think of it that way.

Although this raises another interesting question - is it ALWAYS rude to leave a guest by themselves to attend another function? What if your guest is staying for a month? Are you really expected to decline all social invitations in that period, so that your guest is not left alone? Or what if your guest has other plans for that day, anyway? Is it ok then, to attend a social event?

My take on this is that if you know you are going to have a house guest on a specific date, and you get an invitation for that date, you respond with "Oh, thank you very much, but Great-Aunt Sarah will be staying with us that week." Leaving the host free to say, "Sorry, we'll miss you, " or "Oh, I've always wanted to meet her! Please, bring her along!"

If you have already accepted an invitation, and then you find that someone wants to come and visit you that day, what I'd do is tell the guest, "Sure, you can come and stay that weekend. But I already have plans for Saturday night, so you'll be on your own then." I don't think that's rude--you have explained the parameters of the visit and the guest is free to accept them or reject them. Or you could tell the prospective guest that the proposed dates for the visit simply don't work for you.

It's the prior commitment thing. In the first case, your first commitment is to the houseguest you have invited. In the second case, your first commitment is to the host who invited you.
Nothing is impossible, the word itself says, “I’m possible!” –Audrey Hepburn


VorFemme

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2013, 12:11:47 PM »
The only time I have asked a host if I could bring a guest along was when it was a choice of VorGuy staying home with him or bringing him along - because, frankly, I didn't trust Apollo of the Weasels alone in my house WITHOUT someone else there. 

And it was very clearly a choice of evils - because once he got to the dinner party (catered main dish - pot luck appetizers - I made a larger appetizer & paid for the extra plate) - he shot his mouth off with his foot in it, to my boss & co-workers in the military.

I made it clear that he was VorGuy's oldest friend from high school...but I also resolved that if he ever showed up on a date when we already had plans, I'd make sure VorGuy stayed home with him.  We haven't seen him since 1985 and haven't heard from him since 1988 or so - and if we see him before 2114 it will be too soon.

I have done a Google search - we aren't likely to go to Las Vegas as long a Google search shows that's where he's living.  Since neither of us gambles, it's not a problem.  We can see Cirque de Soleil in Orlando, if we just want to see the Cirque!

Jenny called before bringing Claire - be grateful that you had the chance to tell her, politely, that Claire was not going to be added to the guest list - whether you cited lack of space, other guests being made uncomfortable, or you, as the hostess, being made uncomfortable.  Claire could stay at Jenny's & dye her hair, give herself a mani-pedi to get ready for the next day, or fold herself into an origami shape emotionally because people just don't understand her - she's still not being invited to come to your party.  You reap what you sow.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 12:15:32 PM by VorFemme »
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

Tea Drinker

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #88 on: December 08, 2013, 03:19:35 PM »
My girlfriend has asked if she can bring me to open house style parties, because we live in different cities, so her friends (even if they've met me) aren't going to think of me, the way they would if we lived together. I don't know if the answer is sometimes "no"; I suspect she checks with them first, something like "Tea Drinker might be visiting that weekend, is it okay if I bring her along?" rather than "so-and-so is having a party, do you want to come that weekend or would you rather visit the weekend before or after?"


Is it possible your friend is saying, "I should probably say no, since Tea Drinker will be visiting me that weekend"? That's acceptable--hints are fine.

Directly asking is what's rude.

It's a form of "social blasphemy"--usurping the rights of the diety/hostess.

I don't think it's rude in this case, given the shape of large holiday open party plus "can I bring the person I am dating?" "Girlfriend" in this case doesn't mean "friend who is female," but "person I am in a serious but long-distance relationship with." LDRs complicate a lot of things, and one of them is the social expectations: but I would ask whether there was room for her in a context where I would say "thanks, but I have an out-of-town visitor" if it was my mother or a friend I wasn't dating.
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TootsNYC

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Re: I don't want that person in my house
« Reply #89 on: December 08, 2013, 09:26:05 PM »
My girlfriend has asked if she can bring me to open house style parties, because we live in different cities, so her friends (even if they've met me) aren't going to think of me, the way they would if we lived together. I don't know if the answer is sometimes "no"; I suspect she checks with them first, something like "Tea Drinker might be visiting that weekend, is it okay if I bring her along?" rather than "so-and-so is having a party, do you want to come that weekend or would you rather visit the weekend before or after?"


Is it possible your friend is saying, "I should probably say no, since Tea Drinker will be visiting me that weekend"? That's acceptable--hints are fine.

Directly asking is what's rude.

It's a form of "social blasphemy"--usurping the rights of the diety/hostess.

I don't think it's rude in this case, given the shape of large holiday open party plus "can I bring the person I am dating?" "Girlfriend" in this case doesn't mean "friend who is female," but "person I am in a serious but long-distance relationship with." LDRs complicate a lot of things, and one of them is the social expectations: but I would ask whether there was room for her in a context where I would say "thanks, but I have an out-of-town visitor" if it was my mother or a friend I wasn't dating.

I agree that a Significant Other is a different situation, but I'd still be very leery of directly asking. And I wouldn't want to encourage people to think that there are very many exceptions to this rule.