"No dog, no shorts, no cookies." Mom's Christmas rules UPDATE #49,#118 134 FIN

[sammycat]

I agree with you, invite seller. maybe the siblings should move the get together to their houses so they can have fun without mom raining on the parade.
here is my groundless speculation: the sister in laws will be all for the continuing cookie tradition, and when told this, mom will back pedal and blame one of the daughters in law.

So mom doesn't want to join her kids in games and fun, is stopping a tradition of Santa cookies instead of continuing it for the little ones, and makes snarky comments about attire and an incident from a year ago that seems overblown...me thinks mom doesn't want these gatherings at all but feels as obligated to have them as OP and her siblings feel about attending.  Truthfully, if this was my family gathering, I wouldn't bother going because it just doesn't sound festive, but everyone being on eggshells so as not to get mom riled up.

I think you might both be onto something.

[EllenS]

My personal take, is that Mom feels like she is not the center of attention in the same way that she used to be.  There is a natural progression in families where Mom becomes Grandma and then gradually moves from the center of the festivities, to the periphery, while the next generation plans and organizes things with their kids and grandkids.  Princess becomes Queen, becomes Queen Mum.

I think Mom's random Rules are an attempt to make sure she is still in the center/in charge, to avoid becoming irrelevant.  It's kind of random and nonsensical, because it is driven by an emotional/irrational need. The healthy way to do this would be to invest more in the kids and what they enjoy doing.  But not everybody is willing/able to make the healthiest choice.

[Clockwork Banana]

Is this level of micromanaging a new thing for your mother? If not, I am probably way off base in my assesment.

My constant thought through reading the OP and subsequent responses is that possibly the mother resents how well the siblings and spouses get along. Perhaps she feels a bit on the outside, looking in?

If you and your brothers are cool (as in the not super-loving definition of cool) in your feelings toward your mother, she may well have picked up on that, and this is her way of reacting to that.

Each of the separate three points have been appropriately addressed and disected by previous posters, but the overall feel I get is one of a rather resentful woman who does not appreciate or embrace the fact that she has three children who actually like each other and enjoy the traditions they have developed (like the board games, the cookies, the train cake etc.).

Oh, and totally off topic, but what is with hosting but not actually hosting, insomuch as deli sandwhiches for the holiday dinner?  I am (REALLY) not judging, I am just curious as to whether this is part of a pattern of begrudgedly having Christmas at her home?

[Julsie]

Clockwork Banana,  (I like bananas better than oranges, too.)

I'm a mom of eight children, ages young adult to infant.  ALL I want out of life is to have them grow up and get along.  And a trip to the Maldives.  But mostly, it would be to see them have genuine rel@tionships with each other.  I can't imagine feeling left out.

But I do understand the deli sandwiches.  I'm not a good cook.  I love people but not party prep.  So come on over, all of you and enjoy these sandwiches from Subway.

[RegionMom]

OP here-

It is store bought meats and cheeses, assemble yourself sandwiches.  Mom buys fancy chips and pickles. 

For the BBQ, someone drives 45 mins. to the BBQ place. 

UPDATE-

I just spoke to Aunt T. and her DH, my brother.  He has not even heard from mom, and he was happily surprised about Christmas Eve service. 

As for the cookies, I asked, "with your two little ones, it may be too much to both the trains and the cookies.  What do you think?"

"Why not??  We have been doing the cookies for at least 35 years so we should still do that one.  And there is enough room for both, like we have done before."

I replied, "Sounds good to me!  Let's coordinate what candies we are bringing to decorate the trains."  (off-topic discussion of gummy bears getting run over by the engine car)

"Oh, DB, does our sis-in-law (Aunt L.) have any special traditions that we have been missing?"

"Not that I know of.  They have been married longer than me, and have a child a few years older than my oldest, plus her parents live 5 mins away from ours so if she does have a tradition, she does it there."

Chatted about travel plans back to their town and general chit chat, and the good-bye.

So, Aunt T. has no concerns about doing both the trains and the cookies. 

I might call the other DB, (Aunt L's DH, my baby brother)  but I cannot see any problems there, either.

Mom has never been one for fun.  (edited out two boring paragraphs of how dull she is, and really seems to have no friends.  I could not name ONE friend of hers.)

My kids like the cookies.  With the leftover dough after we have made the Santas, we make traditional Christmas cookie shapes like trees and bells and stars, but then we also make red trees and green stars and then on to maybe a martian or a snake done freehand.   We have years of pictures.  One year we made an entire army of minions.  They almost burnt because they were small, but we still ate them!

So, the cookies are on.   I will bring every last bit of supplies from my home, and I guess when I see mom, I will have some configuration of the kids ask Grandma when we can make cookies and decorate trains, like always.  And if she pitches a fit, well, I just do not know.  My in-laws live  in my town here, and I do not know sis-in-laws (Aunt L) parents to borrow their kitchen.  I have not lived there since age 17, and I am not on FaceBook to see if anyone is still around. 

I can see mom's fussing over the time with the church service, but we could do it the day before.  Or the morn of Christmas Eve.  We can, and have, worked around nap times and travel plans.  We jsut need to work around Grandma now, it seems.

So, come December 24, Santa WILL be getting his likeness made into cookies, as usual, somehow!   And the candy train will be on display for him to see, also. 



Merry Christmas e-hellions! 

[JoyinVirginia]

Merry Christmas! Just do it!
The Grinch, oh I mean your mother, will either allow it or have to deal with disgruntled children and grandchildren presenting a united front.

[immadz]

OP here-

It is store bought meats and cheeses, assemble yourself sandwiches.  Mom buys fancy chips and pickles. 

For the BBQ, someone drives 45 mins. to the BBQ place. 

UPDATE-

I just spoke to Aunt T. and her DH, my brother.  He has not even heard from mom, and he was happily surprised about Christmas Eve service. 

As for the cookies, I asked, "with your two little ones, it may be too much to both the trains and the cookies.  What do you think?"

"Why not??  We have been doing the cookies for at least 35 years so we should still do that one.  And there is enough room for both, like we have done before."

I replied, "Sounds good to me!  Let's coordinate what candies we are bringing to decorate the trains."  (off-topic discussion of gummy bears getting run over by the engine car)

"Oh, DB, does our sis-in-law (Aunt L.) have any special traditions that we have been missing?"

"Not that I know of.  They have been married longer than me, and have a child a few years older than my oldest, plus her parents live 5 mins away from ours so if she does have a tradition, she does it there."

Chatted about travel plans back to their town and general chit chat, and the good-bye.

So, Aunt T. has no concerns about doing both the trains and the cookies. 

I might call the other DB, (Aunt L's DH, my baby brother)  but I cannot see any problems there, either.

Mom has never been one for fun.  (edited out two boring paragraphs of how dull she is, and really seems to have no friends.  I could not name ONE friend of hers.)

My kids like the cookies.  With the leftover dough after we have made the Santas, we make traditional Christmas cookie shapes like trees and bells and stars, but then we also make red trees and green stars and then on to maybe a martian or a snake done freehand.   We have years of pictures.  One year we made an entire army of minions.  They almost burnt because they were small, but we still ate them!

So, the cookies are on.   I will bring every last bit of supplies from my home, and I guess when I see mom, I will have some configuration of the kids ask Grandma when we can make cookies and decorate trains, like always.  And if she pitches a fit, well, I just do not know.  My in-laws live  in my town here, and I do not know sis-in-laws (Aunt L) parents to borrow their kitchen.  I have not lived there since age 17, and I am not on FaceBook to see if anyone is still around. 

I can see mom's fussing over the time with the church service, but we could do it the day before.  Or the morn of Christmas Eve.  We can, and have, worked around nap times and travel plans.  We jsut need to work around Grandma now, it seems.

So, come December 24, Santa WILL be getting his likeness made into cookies, as usual, somehow!   And the candy train will be on display for him to see, also. 



Merry Christmas e-hellions!

My only concern is that you are proposing to make cookies in her kitchen. That might not be too polite, since her house, her rules.

[SPuck]

My only concern is that you are proposing to make cookies in her kitchen. That might not be too polite, since her house, her rules.

It also isn't polite to volunteer someone else for a cooking position without asking them first, which is what RegionMom's mother appeared to be doing in the first post. Either way I think there is a lot of wiggle room on both ends if RegionMom's mother is expecting other people to cook.

[JoyinVirginia]

As backup, op can identify hotel that has kitchen facilities in room/ suite and then if mother still vetoes fun activity that all of the guests expect to do, have done in past, and enjoy doing, then the entire crew can leave mom alone in her house and go elsewhere to make cookies.
This is immediate family. Toss is much different situation than a party guest taking over the kitchen to make cheesecake or complicated meal.
Like op brother said, they have been doing this for thirty five years. Why stop now?

My latest groundless speculation, the Grinch grandmother was so distressed by the sound of children enjoying themselves, she has been plotting how to put a stop to it. The perfect plan! Tell the cookie chef she will not be allowed to do it! Then when other family ask ” when are we making cookies?” She can blame it all on op not bringing cookie things. A perfect GrinchY plan!

[kareng57]

OP here-

One brother always gives us a new game for us to play as a family of all three of us adult kids plus our kids (holding baby/toddler in various arms, or helping a small child follow along to play or help roll the dice.) Mom has never has participated in the new board or card game, nor the decorating cake trains or rolling out Santa cookies. 

The NO DOG is really just an expensive eye roll.  I thought the dogs were fine together.  My dog is relaxed and was impressively very good not to bother Mom's dog's food or toys.  Her dog is a nervous Nellie that is pretty spoiled.  I am fine leaving my dog with friends.  Our dog loves adventure and we have an excellent at-their-home dog sitter, who will paid quite handsomely. 

The NO SHORTS is more of a, "wow, I know you have only met my kids about 12-14 times ever (did not go home when DH got laid off, and twice when very pregnant or just gave birth days before to her first grandchild) but, really, in every photo you have ever seen they have been well attired, plus you know we go to a conservative school and church. 

Plus, why are you completely ignoring the idea of a family photo when you have this great opportunity? 

My DS asked a few years ago if you even went to church, since he has never seen your church, because you are so often in-between church-hopping in distant towns, that it is too much bother for you.  You sputtered that the dates did not fit, but he logically, as only an 8/9 year can, checked the calendar and realized that was just not so.  I really do not know why suddenly it is such a big deal for us to all go to church together.  And yes, both brothers and their wives share the same basic faith- just some use more candles than others. 

The NO COOKIES is the issue.  It is not that the cookies are so delicious.  When mom muttered to herself a few years back about the time and hassle, I assumed she meant the actual making of the dough, so I switched to store-bought cookie rolls.  And, I was always careful to leave the kitchen back in complete and clean order.

The special thing we have all done together has been to color the dough and make Santa shapes before the baking.  I have a lovely picture of grade school DS holding his toddler cousin and "helping" her roll the dough in her hand.  This cousin belongs to Aunt L. 

Both brothers have preschool children now, Aunt T. also has a baby, Aunt L. has the one grade schooler plus the same age preschooler, and mine are older teens. 

When we are working together, on the trains and the cookies, we are opening up to each other, getting re-acquainted in person and just chatting.  It is like a quilting bee of baked goods. 

So, mom is not taking away the cookies to eat, but the tradition of working on a family project.

She has not ever done them since I was a kid.  Aunt T. was inspired by our cookies to come up with her own tradition for her kids, so she started the trains two years ago.

I will call Aunt T. later today- time zone and work differences.  She is very diplomatic and calm and I doubt mom has spoken to her about this. 

So, that is my non-update, but maybe more info.

And, yes, my doggie keeps a diary buried on the back yard, I am sure!

I think the micro-managing could be on both sides, to be honest.

I truly cannot imagine allowing either of my sons to interrogate their grandparents regarding church attendance.  I think that goes beyond the boundaries of respect.

[NyaChan]

Gotta be honest - that really threw me for a loop as well.  I would have stopped it in the moment and done some admonishing afterwards.  I have to say again - it isn't the other guests' permission you need, it is your host's permission that you should get about the cookies.  I don't think it is right to just flout what she has specifically told you she doesn't want happening.  I would suggest calling her up and bring it up similar to: "You know, Aunt actually was excited to make the cookies this year with all the kids.  Since everyone else is okay with it, how about we continue the tradition?"

[esposita]

Asking one question and then being confused about the illogical answer is not an interrogation.

[nolechica]

Is your mother's house the most geographically accessible place or not? Why doesn't a sibling host so mom can't make the rules?

[wallaby]

So, the cookies are on.   I will bring every last bit of supplies from my home, and I guess when I see mom, I will have some configuration of the kids ask Grandma when we can make cookies and decorate trains, like always. And if she pitches a fit, well, I just do not know.  My in-laws live  in my town here, and I do not know sis-in-laws (Aunt L) parents to borrow their kitchen.  I have not lived there since age 17, and I am not on FaceBook to see if anyone is still around. 

I can see mom's fussing over the time with the church service, but we could do it the day before.  Or the morn of Christmas Eve.  We can, and have, worked around nap times and travel plans.  We jsut need to work around Grandma now, it seems.

So, come December 24, Santa WILL be getting his likeness made into cookies, as usual, somehow!   And the candy train will be on display for him to see, also. 

You didn't like what you were told. As far as I can tell, you have not actually attempted to discuss this again with your Mom (e.g., "Mom, what is the real issue here? We really love and value that tradition and it would mean a lot to us to continue it."). From your update, you've gone behind her back and enlisted other relatives to get them "on side", and are plotting to strategically use your own children, to get your way? You say your Mom is difficult but this underhand/manipulative approach to getting your way does not exactly cover yourself in glory, either. Sorry. Not having toxic family dynamics I don't understand how you rationalize this. Honestly if you did this to me, I would be angry. I don't understand why you won't just have a follow-up conversation instead of all this plotting and scheming.

[cross_patch]

So, the cookies are on.   I will bring every last bit of supplies from my home, and I guess when I see mom, I will have some configuration of the kids ask Grandma when we can make cookies and decorate trains, like always. And if she pitches a fit, well, I just do not know.  My in-laws live  in my town here, and I do not know sis-in-laws (Aunt L) parents to borrow their kitchen.  I have not lived there since age 17, and I am not on FaceBook to see if anyone is still around. 

I can see mom's fussing over the time with the church service, but we could do it the day before.  Or the morn of Christmas Eve.  We can, and have, worked around nap times and travel plans.  We jsut need to work around Grandma now, it seems.

So, come December 24, Santa WILL be getting his likeness made into cookies, as usual, somehow!   And the candy train will be on display for him to see, also. 

You didn't like what you were told. As far as I can tell, you have not actually attempted to discuss this again with your Mom (e.g., "Mom, what is the real issue here? We really love and value that tradition and it would mean a lot to us to continue it."). From your update, you've gone behind her back and enlisted other relatives to get them "on side", and are plotting to strategically use your own children, to get your way? You say your Mom is difficult but this underhand/manipulative approach to getting your way does not exactly cover yourself in glory, either. Sorry. Not having toxic family dynamics I don't understand how you rationalize this. Honestly if you did this to me, I would be angry. I don't understand why you won't just have a follow-up conversation instead of all this plotting and scheming.

You've absolutely summarised the problem that I have with this- it seems do underhanded and sneaky. It does seem from your posts that you are determined to ascribe the worst possible motives to your mother- the paragraph about how she has no friends etc sort of illustrates to me your mindset in regard to this. I acknowledge that family dynamics are tricky, but it might be worth a bit of reflection to your role in this.

I also agree with the other posters in regard to your son questioning his grandmother about her churgoing- hugely inappropriate.