Author Topic: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest - UPDATE #219  (Read 26970 times)

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sammycat

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2013, 12:23:29 AM »
I think it was rude for Auntie to turn Thanksgiving into her own "going into the an assisted living apartment" party.

If she didn't feel she could host properly, she should not have been hosting.  Presumably, had Larry still been married and not divorced, his wife would have been welcome.  Or, would she have simply not invited them at all? 

Adults form social units and others do not get to judge how significant someone else's significant other is.  I think the "rule" was rude to begin with and she should have known better.

Just because you are planning on dying before next Thanksgiving doesn't give you a right to push other people around.

The only rude one in this entire scenario was Larry.

Tea Drinker

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2013, 12:47:11 AM »
I don't think Larry--or anybody--gets to say "I don't care what the host says, I'm bringing my new girlfriend/boyfriend no matter what." This isn't "If I can't bring so-and-so, I'll go to their family instead" (which is polite so long as said other family has invited them). It's not "you'd let me bring 'Mary,' I should be able to bring Mark," or a long-established couple who either choose not to marry, or can't. (In that circumstance, the aunt still gets to say no, but Larry would, I think, have been more likely to say something like "Aunt Letitia, Ganymede has been to the last five family Thanksgivings, he'd be very hurt to be left out now" rather than "I'm bringing her even though you told me not to.")

If this would have been the first time that Larry's girlfriend met his family, I second the poster who said that he was really being (or trying to be) unkind to her, as well as to Elderly Aunt and to any other unmarried relatives who agreed not to bring their partners.
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Library Dragon

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2013, 12:49:07 AM »
Larry was not only rude to his aunt, but to his new girlfriend as well. He put her in the awkward position of being the uninvited guest.  No matter how gracious Aunt was it would be obvious that her presence brought tension.  Unless he told her, "Hey my aunt didn't invite you but we're going anyway," she might not know why the tension is there. 

She may be as insensitive as Larry, but I'd like to presume that she isn't.  She could be left wondering if the family isn't open to Larry having a new girlfriend.  Not a great way to begin incorporating your new girlfriend into family events and relationships.

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MariaE

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2013, 01:22:00 AM »
I think it was rude for Auntie to turn Thanksgiving into her own "going into the an assisted living apartment" party.

If she didn't feel she could host properly, she should not have been hosting.  Presumably, had Larry still been married and not divorced, his wife would have been welcome.  Or, would she have simply not invited them at all? 

Adults form social units and others do not get to judge how significant someone else's significant other is.  I think the "rule" was rude to begin with and she should have known better.

Just because you are planning on dying before next Thanksgiving doesn't give you a right to push other people around.

I could not disagree more. We don't know whether Larry and his gf form a social unit, but chances are that they don't or Aunt would probably have invited her. This isn't about her, specifically, it's about Aunt hosting the number of people she feels comfortable with, and we don't know the situation - if she invited Larry's gf, she might have had to invite several other "new girlfriends/boyfriends" as well. Nowhere did the OP state that Larry was the only person there without a date... And even if he were, it still wouldn't have been rude. "Only family and social units" is a completely reasonable and polite line to draw.

And even, if... if I could agree with you that Aunt should have invited gf, that still doesn't make Larry not-rude. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Larry's only polite options would have been to either A) come alone, or B) decline the invitation. What he actually did was rude, rude, rude, rude.
 
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AnnaJ

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2013, 01:51:23 AM »
If Larry didn't like the option of not attending with his girlfriend, then he had to choice to decline the invitation and make other plans with her - this is the only polite choice he had and he managed to get it wrong.

TurtleDove

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2013, 01:55:04 AM »
  Larry recently divorced from his third wife, and he really wanted to bring his new girlfriend to Thanksgiving dinner.

I get the sense this is a new relationship, so in that sense I can see standing firm that this is not a social unit situation. However, the bolded seems quite judgmental, which makes me think that fact is coloring this situation.  This decision was not about space at the Thanksgiving table, but rather about not including non-married partners.  Which, fine, but I can understand Larry feeling excluded by that stance.

Pen^2

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2013, 02:19:02 AM »
Wow, Larry was horribly self-centred. If you disagree with a host's rules, you absolutely do not go and challenge that on the day, making the entire event awkward for everyone. Especially if the host is an 89 year old woman who isn't as able to cope with these things and made the rules based on practicality.

She would have been within the realms of etiquette to turn him away, and that possibly might have been better for the guests. I can imagine it would have been very uncomfortable with him there, and he may have continued his entitlement throughout the meal with other things.

She invited him, and him only, to a family meal. He shows up with another person => he didn't accept the invitation that was offered. In effect, he made up his own version of the invitation, didn't inform her that he had done this, and expected her to be on board with it. Again, this is an 89 year old woman who is only just able to live on her own anymore and is trying to do something nice for her family before she no longer can. Since he didn't accept her invitation, it's perfectly polite to turn him away. I feel very sorry for his new girlfriend. I hope that this at least showed her what kind of person he was, and she moved on to someone who was above disrespecting the elderly.

It is perfectly acceptable for a host to limit attendees due to space, money, or practicality-based means. If you don't like that, then you don't go. Limiting it to blood family and married or long-term couples is an easy and largely accepted way to do this. Another often done thing is to say, "No-one under the age of 18." This is done at events with alcohol a lot, and is considered just as okay. What if an 18 year old has a new girlfriend who is a month shy of 18? Too bad. They deal with it, as any mature person should. It's not a personal jab, just a rule based on the practicality of what the host is able to offer. If a host can't create the extravaganza you want, then they are not obligated to book out a restaurant or hire a caterer. It's fine to scale back. If people still want a bigger party, they are always welcome to host one as well.

cicero

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2013, 02:30:00 AM »
A date is not the same as a "significant other."  I disagree that a family Thanksgiving dinner is an event to which one should expect to be able to bring a date.

All we know is that this is Larry's new girlfriend.  "New" says to me not yet a social unit.  I do not think that the aunt was required to invite her, although I do agree that if they lived together or were otherwise an established couple, she should have.  But it doesn't sound like it.

And once she made her decision, even if she was wrong, Larry was wrong to disrespect it.

That said, I hope that Aunt was a gracious hostess and welcomed Larry and his guest without letting them see how irritating it was.  Turning away people at the door is pretty harsh, and we don't even know if the girlfriend knew she wasn't invited by Aunt.  As someone else said, it would throw cold water on the evening for everyone else, too.
I agree. and i think the fact that other family members stepped in to protect Aunt's stance speaks volumes.

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JoieGirl7

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2013, 03:52:08 AM »
Wait a minute...  She's a "date."  The OP clearly says that shes is his girkfriend.

And, we'e not talking about dates beacuse Auntie's rule does not address dates, but instead secofically boyfriends and girlfriends.

The social unity is not up for others' debate.  That is their business.

MariaE

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2013, 03:57:27 AM »
Wait a minute...  She's a "date."  The OP clearly says that shes is his girkfriend.

And, we'e not talking about dates beacuse Auntie's rule does not address dates, but instead secofically boyfriends and girlfriends.

The social unity is not up for others' debate.  That is their business.

A fiancee is a social unit.

A married partner is a social unit.

A live-in partner is a social unit.

A girlfriend / boyfriend who doesn't fall into any of the above categories is not a social unit. Specifically so that people don't have to determine the "seriousness-factor" of other people's relationships.

Do some families still treat them as such? Of course! But it's not required by etiquette.
 
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Iris

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2013, 04:09:53 AM »
Wait a minute...  She's a "date."  The OP clearly says that shes is his girkfriend.

And, we'e not talking about dates beacuse Auntie's rule does not address dates, but instead secofically boyfriends and girlfriends.

The social unity is not up for others' debate.  That is their business.

??? People do this all the time. Any wedding where married/live-in/engaged partners are invited and boyfriends/girlfriends aren't does it - and surely weddings fall under 'family event' for many people.

I think you may be reading more into the relationship than is really there. If it was a snub to not invite this girlfriend then I'm sure that the other guests would have said something more like "I know, it's horrible gf isn't invited, but it's her last thanksgiving in her house is there any way we can work around this?" rather than the blunt "No, you can't take her. That's no okay" that is being portrayed here.

At any rate we know empirically that they are not engaged, married or living together and so putting everything else aside they simply are not a social unit under formal etiquette and so do not have to be invited as a couple.
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cicero

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2013, 04:30:54 AM »


Wait a minute...  She's a "date."  The OP clearly says that shes is his girkfriend.

And, we'e not talking about dates beacuse Auntie's rule does not address dates, but instead secofically boyfriends and girlfriends.

The social unity is not up for others' debate.  That is their business.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. whether she is a "date" or a "girlfriend" - she wasn't invited. And I think there is a huge difference between "a recent girlfriend" and a "long time significant other". and i think that there is a big difference between a large party/open house (where even a *casua* or *recent* girlfriend might be welcome, and a small, intimate "family only" event.

And while i think you are splitting hairs over the exact definition, it *was* actually addressed in the Aunt's rule - she said "family members only", no girlfriends, boyfriends, old family friends etc.

so this year, she was limiting her invitation to family members only.  No girlfriends or boyfriends, no lonely neighbors, no old family friends this year, just family members.



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Runningstar

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2013, 06:51:08 AM »
I had this happen to me long ago.  My then BF invited me to his Aunt's Thanksgiving dinner.  The Aunt welcomed me in, put a plate and found an extra chair - for one of her younger kids at the corner of the table.  I was seated in a regular spot (not at the squeezed in spot).  Had no clue that I wasn't expected or invited until the Aunt's son (who was about 25 years old, I was about 22 myself) told me quietly that the reason they ran out of the mashed potatoes was because of me and how rude BF was to bring me.   I was really embarrassed and then angry at the BF as I had my own family dinner (where the mashed potatoes never ran out). 
IMO Larry was the rude one, but that is assuming the new GF didn't know about the invitation parameters.  If she did (which I doubt) then she would also be rude.
I'm still mad about those potatoes.

cicero

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2013, 06:54:56 AM »
I had this happen to me long ago.  My then BF invited me to his Aunt's Thanksgiving dinner.  The Aunt welcomed me in, put a plate and found an extra chair - for one of her younger kids at the corner of the table.  I was seated in a regular spot (not at the squeezed in spot).  Had no clue that I wasn't expected or invited until the Aunt's son (who was about 25 years old, I was about 22 myself) told me quietly that the reason they ran out of the mashed potatoes was because of me and how rude BF was to bring me.   I was really embarrassed and then angry at the BF as I had my own family dinner (where the mashed potatoes never ran out). 
IMO Larry was the rude one, but that is assuming the new GF didn't know about the invitation parameters.  If she did (which I doubt) then she would also be rude.
I'm still mad about those potatoes.
sorry for the 22 year old you that felt bad but i really doubt that *you* were the reason they ran out of potatoes! that's ridiculous - who makes *exactly* the precise amount of mashed potatoes at a t-giving dinner (with, i assume, a lot of guests)? your BF's cousin was a turd - if his mother very graciously invited you in and didn't make you feel that you were an "uninvited guest" he should have followed her lead.

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Catananche

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2013, 07:08:11 AM »
The aunt is free to dictate her guest-list and guests are free to accept invitations to the event (and by doing that accept the rules that come with the invitation) or decline if they can't accept those rules. Larry should have declined the invitation.