The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest - UPDATE #219

[Oh Joy]

Of course Larry was in the wrong.

And I defend the aunt on the presumption that there were many boyfriends and girlfriends, such as the guest list difference being 20 vs. 28, not 12 vs. 14.

In the aunt's shoes, I would act on the presumption that the girlfriend is innocent to Larry's game, greet them with a smile, and say 'It's so sweet of you two to stop by on the way to your dinner.  We have twenty minutes for everyone to visit before we eat.  Excuse me - I have duties in the kitchen - please pop in to say 'goodbye' before you leave.'

[lady_disdain]

In the aunt's shoes, I would act on the presumption that the girlfriend is innocent to Larry's game, greet them with a smile, and say 'It's so sweet of you two to stop by on the way to your dinner.  We have twenty minutes for everyone to visit before we eat.  Excuse me - I have duties in the kitchen - please pop in to say 'goodbye' before you leave.'

Good luck getting them out of the house before the meal, with or without a scene.

[Runningstar]

I had this happen to me long ago.  My then BF invited me to his Aunt's Thanksgiving dinner.  The Aunt welcomed me in, put a plate and found an extra chair - for one of her younger kids at the corner of the table.  I was seated in a regular spot (not at the squeezed in spot).  Had no clue that I wasn't expected or invited until the Aunt's son (who was about 25 years old, I was about 22 myself) told me quietly that the reason they ran out of the mashed potatoes was because of me and how rude BF was to bring me.   I was really embarrassed and then angry at the BF as I had my own family dinner (where the mashed potatoes never ran out). 
IMO Larry was the rude one, but that is assuming the new GF didn't know about the invitation parameters.  If she did (which I doubt) then she would also be rude.
I'm still mad about those potatoes.

sorry for the 22 year old you that felt bad but i really doubt that *you* were the reason they ran out of potatoes! that's ridiculous - who makes *exactly* the precise amount of mashed potatoes at a t-giving dinner (with, i assume, a lot of guests)? your BF's cousin was a turd - if his mother very graciously invited you in and didn't make you feel that you were an "uninvited guest" he should have followed her lead.

Totally agree with you Cicero - and that being a turd was also what the ex BF was for putting me in that situation.  The funny thing was that the kid who had to squeeze in at the corner never uttered a complaint or a word about it. 

[esposita]

Audrey, I don't understand how these two statements jive>>

"But, what she should do, if she cannot accommodate all of the family--which includes significant others--these are full grown adults, we're talking about, not high schoolers--"

and

"The social unity is not up for others' debate.  That is their business."

Why is it up for debate if its high-schoolers? I've known people who were married during high school; one couple, literally, in between classes in high school (the husband had to sit through detention for being late to his next class) and have been joyfully married for more than 50 years.

Even with my example, I would take the position that it is completely acceptable to say "no" to inviting (even serious) high-school boyfriends or girlfriends, just as its acceptable to not invite new girlfriends of nephews.

[nayberry]

Larry was rude, no ifs, buts or maybe's.  he was told it was family only by more than one person and he ignored them.

Aunt was well within her rights to only invite who she wanted, if larry didn't like it, he didn't have to attend.

[SamiHami]

I think it was rude for Auntie to turn Thanksgiving into her own "going into the an assisted living apartment" party.

If she didn't feel she could host properly, she should not have been hosting.  Presumably, had Larry still been married and not divorced, his wife would have been welcome.  Or, would she have simply not invited them at all? 

Adults form social units and others do not get to judge how significant someone else's significant other is.  I think the "rule" was rude to begin with and she should have known better.

Just because you are planning on dying before next Thanksgiving doesn't give you a right to push other people around.

Completely disagree. Aunt is free to invite anyone she wishes to her own home for a meal, whether it is a holiday or not. The invitees do not have to like the parameters of the invitation, and are free to accept or decline only-but not to try to change the terms of the invitation. The only rudeness here was Larry being a giant, entitled horses hiney for bringing along an uninvited and unwelcome guest.

And nowhere does it say she is "planning on dying before next Thanksgiving." The point is that she is going into assisted living so this would be the last holiday she would be hosting in her own home, which is a big deal IMO. It's a huge change in her life status, and she obviously wanted to host one last, intimate holiday for her family. I sincerely hope that Larry was booted out and that his girlfriend dumped his selfish, entitled you-know-what.

OP, any way to find out the outcome of this story? I'd love to know what happened.

[SamiHami]

None of you seem to care that a celebration that is meant for family is deliberately excluding family on the basis of their love life.

She doesn't have the right to "own" Thanksgiving.  She can have all the dinner parties she wants.  But, what she should do, if she cannot accommodate all of the family--which includes significant others-

No. a girlfriend/boyfriend is not family.

Aunt was not trying to "own" Thanksgiving. She is issuing invitations to her own home with her own set of parameters. She, and only she, gets to decide who she entertains in her home, period.  No one was holding a gun to Larry's head, demanding that come to Aunt's house for Tday. How many times have we said that an invitation is not a summons? All he had to do was decline the invitation if he wanted to spend Tday with his girlfriend. What he doesn't get to do is bully an 89 year old woman and force her to serve the uninvited guests he chooses to force upon her.

There is no way around that fact that Larry was 100% inexcusably rude.

[bloo]

A date is not the same as a "significant other."  I disagree that a family Thanksgiving dinner is an event to which one should expect to be able to bring a date.

All we know is that this is Larry's new girlfriend.  "New" says to me not yet a social unit.  I do not think that the aunt was required to invite her, although I do agree that if they lived together or were otherwise an established couple, she should have.  But it doesn't sound like it.

And once she made her decision, even if she was wrong, Larry was wrong to disrespect it.

That said, I hope that Aunt was a gracious hostess and welcomed Larry and his guest without letting them see how irritating it was.  Turning away people at the door is pretty harsh, and we don't even know if the girlfriend knew she wasn't invited by Aunt.  As someone else said, it would throw cold water on the evening for everyone else, too.

I agree with this, although if there was a way for Larry's dad to pull him aside and tell him to take himself and his date off altogether, that would be okay in my book.

My parents invited us to a cabin they were renting in X state. We live in Y state, my parents and brother live in Z state. Plans were locked and loaded one year in advance. 4 or 5 months into the year my brother starts dating Jean and quickly decides to cohabitate with her. My DD said, "Does this mean we have to vacation with a stranger next year?" I told her 'no'. I said that I doubted my Dad would put up with living in a cabin for a week with someone of such new acquaintance and if he did, we could graciously decline joining them because the parameters changed.

I didn't even bring the issue up with my parents or worry about it in anyway because I told my DD the whole world could change in 8 months and they might not even be living together or dating anyways. My mother never mentioned Jean joining the family even though she liked Jean and Mom talked about the vacation with frequency during phone calls, so I took my Mom's silence on Jean to mean that Jean was not invited. I'm normally pretty direct, but knowing my parents as I do, I really felt like silence was best in this regard.

Jean dumped my brother and moved out 3 months or so before the vacation so it became a total non-issue for DD. It already was a non-issue for me.

Even though Jean was a significant other, in a sense, she was a stranger to 4 of the 7 people who would be sharing the cabin. In our opinion and with our personalities that would not have been a great way to get to know each other. I do realize that could be different with different personalities.

None of you seem to care that a celebration that is meant for family is deliberately excluding family on the basis of their love life.

She doesn't have the right to "own" Thanksgiving.  She can have all the dinner parties she wants.  But, what she should do, if she cannot accommodate all of the family--which includes significant others-

No. a girlfriend/boyfriend is not family.

Aunt was not trying to "own" Thanksgiving. She is issuing invitations to her own home with her own set of parameters. She, and only she, gets to decide who she entertains in her home, period.  No one was holding a gun to Larry's head, demanding that come to Aunt's house for Tday. How many times have we said that an invitation is not a summons? All he had to do was decline the invitation if he wanted to spend Tday with his girlfriend. What he doesn't get to do is bully an 89 year old woman and force her to serve the uninvited guests he chooses to force upon her.

There is no way around that fact that Larry was 100% inexcusably rude.

Truth.

[Oh Joy]

In the aunt's shoes, I would act on the presumption that the girlfriend is innocent to Larry's game, greet them with a smile, and say 'It's so sweet of you two to stop by on the way to your dinner.  We have twenty minutes for everyone to visit before we eat.  Excuse me - I have duties in the kitchen - please pop in to say 'goodbye' before you leave.'

Good luck getting them out of the house before the meal, with or without a scene.

Of course.  But why would I let that stop me from gracefully offering them a way out?

[BarensMom]

Agreed.  This is an 89-year old woman, facing her last Thanksgiving holiday before going into assisted living, wanting to host her family "one last time."  It occurred to me that this woman wanted only her family for this dinner because they would be more accepting of any lapses in her hospitality and be willing to assist when needed.  Perhaps the aunt did not want a "new" person in her home because, frankly, she did not want a stranger to see that her home wasn't up to its former standards or that most of her stuff is in packing boxes. Or she didn't want a stranger to experience what may have been a dinner that wasn't up to previous levels.

Just imagine, Aunt was thinking, "Thank diety, it's only family.  They won't mind if the gravy has lumps or the pie crust is too brown.  Oh, and my back was hurting, so I wasn't able to dust the table or wash the good dishes beforehand - I'll ask great-niece to help me with that."  Then, the doorbell rings, and it's Larry foisting a strange girl on her.  Aunt would have every right to be upset.

[JeanFromBNA]

Great points, Barens Mom.

[scansons]

Mostly posting for updates on this one. 

[Sweet_Thang]

Great Point BarensMom!

Larry was downright rude and being self centered.  And the poor girl, to show up at a family only function not knowing would be such an embarrassment, I know to me.  She would have more than likely felt out of place and unwanted, even if the Auntie and family liked her.  (Been there, done that)


And Audrey, the Hostess decides the guest list.  If she specifically wants family only, then it's family only.  Not family only plus Larry's date; family only. 

I would love to hear the "rest of the story" and what happened. 

[TootsNYC]

  Larry recently divorced from his third wife, and he really wanted to bring his new girlfriend to Thanksgiving dinner.

I get the sense this is a new relationship, so in that sense I can see standing firm that this is not a social unit situation. However, the bolded seems quite judgmental, which makes me think that fact is coloring this situation.  This decision was not about space at the Thanksgiving table, but rather about not including non-married partners.  Which, fine, but I can understand Larry feeling excluded by that stance.

I think this is useful background to establish that Larry's sense of "permanent relationship" or "important significant other" might not be in line with most other people's. Sure, people end up with more than one marriage, but by the time someone has ended -three- marriages, they're starting to deviate from the norm.
   One reason (only one reason, mind you--there are others, like death and youth and betrayal, etc., etc.) for this can be that commitments aren't taken as seriously--entered into lightly, discarded easily.
     I think that when people start to include that information about people like Larry, it is because they perceive (in this case, the OP, who actually knows him, may perceive) that the number of divorces -does- indicate something about this particular person.

And all the subsequent stuff we've learned about Larry makes me believe that this fact (he has married and divorced three wives) does indicate something important about him, something to factor in when regarding his outrage about his new girlfriend's being excluded.

[Winterlight]

Larry was not only rude to his aunt, but to his new girlfriend as well. He put her in the awkward position of being the uninvited guest.  No matter how gracious Aunt was it would be obvious that her presence brought tension.  Unless he told her, "Hey my aunt didn't invite you but we're going anyway," she might not know why the tension is there. 

She may be as insensitive as Larry, but I'd like to presume that she isn't.  She could be left wondering if the family isn't open to Larry having a new girlfriend.  Not a great way to begin incorporating your new girlfriend into family events and relationships.

Good point. I would be mortified in GF's place, apologize profusely to Aunt and dump Larry.