Author Topic: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest - UPDATE #219  (Read 30224 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DavidH

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1804
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2013, 03:10:11 PM »
Taking Audrey's first comment, "I think it was rude for Auntie to turn Thanksgiving into her own "going into the an assisted living apartment" party." and assuming that was what she was doing, then I can agree that this would be rude.  But, the correct solution to this problem would have been to ask, as he did if he could bring his GF.  Once it was clarified that he could not, the correct solution is not to crash the dinner, but to make other plans.  In some ways it doesn't matter if the invitation was rude or not, the correct solution is never to crash the party, but to decline. 

I'm not sure that hosting properly means inviting guests you want and anyone else they want to bring.  Further, society does judge the seriousness of relationships all the time.  Married vs. not is easy, deciding how significant one has to be to reach significant other is harder, but living together is not a bad way.  It doesn't account completely for the situation of living in different cities for work reasons, but have been together as a couple for many years, but a reasonable person would deal with unusual situations like that as they come up. 

Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6692
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2013, 03:15:47 PM »
None of you seem to care that a celebration that is meant for family is deliberately excluding family on the basis of their love life.

She doesn't have the right to "own" Thanksgiving.  She can have all the dinner parties she wants.  But, what she should do, if she cannot accommodate all of the family--which includes significant others--these are full grown adults, we're talking about, not high schoolers--she should defer to someone else to host it who can accommodate everyone.
 
Larry has been married and presumably lived as an adult for a very long time.  To host Thanksgiving and say that he can't bring a date is rude.  If you do that then it is not a truly a family event because you would exclude your family member because he is only dating someone and not married to them.

If he was married, his aunt would have to invite his wife.  I don't think it should be any different just because this woman is his girlfriend and not his wife.

No one should be presuming that because Larry is divorced that he will come single.

What if Larry was gay and not able to marry his boyfriend?  Is Auntie's rule ok then?

You don't split up social couples and its not up to someone else to decide what constitutes a social couple for a adult.

I find it rather presumptuous to tell people they should care about the same things that you do. No one excluded family, the hostess just wanted an intimate gathering which didn't include a stranger to her.

As for owning Thanksgiving, where did that come from? I read nothing that she declared herself queen of the holiday. She does, however, have the right to invite who she wants. It's up to nephew how to handle that the girlfriend isn't invited, but the option of bringing her against objections of the host and family isn't one of them.

And Hmmmmm, as for the girlfriend's attendance, assuming she was unaware of the conflict, I hope the aunt and family were gracious and then expressed their anger later. How embarrassing and humiliating it would have been for the girlfriend to be either unwelcomed or turned away.

I guess it's a per person issue. As the girlfriend, I would much prefer to be turned away at the time and learn a little more about the man I was dating. It would be worse for me to learn months or even a year later that I was an unexepcted and explicitely uninvited guest. And in my experience these type of stories don't stay secret in most families. 

EllenS

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1585
  • I write whimsical vintage mysteries.
    • My Author Page:
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2013, 03:25:19 PM »
I guess it's a per person issue. As the girlfriend, I would much prefer to be turned away at the time and learn a little more about the man I was dating. It would be worse for me to learn months or even a year later that I was an unexepcted and explicitely uninvited guest. And in my experience these type of stories don't stay secret in most families.

Rip the bandaid off, eh?
......................................................................
                www.ellenseltz.com
......................................................................


Margo

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1679
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2013, 03:32:03 PM »
I think that not inviting Larry's GF would only be rude if they were an established couple - for instance, cohabiting, married or engaged. And in that scenario, if GF wasn't invited, Larry could, I think, if he had a close relationship with Aunt, ask her whether she could include . However, if she said no, or if his relationship with her wasn't close enough that asking would be OK, then his *only* polite options would be to attend alone, or to decline the invitation.
Pushing it, and in particular turning up with an uninvited was staggeringly rude.

I do agree that if Larry was the only guest not to have a spouse or long-term partner and therefore the only one invited solo then it would be gracious of aunt to make an exception and invite his GF, but given that the invitation was clear from the outset, she would not be rude not to invite GF.

I don't think that Aunt in any way highjacked the holiday or failed to host properly - she invited the people she wanted and could manage.

Petticoats

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3494
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2013, 03:54:32 PM »
My only point was that, while Larry clearly handled this poorly, I can see that he is hurting.

I don't see that. To me his actions suggested outraged egotism, but obviously neither of us knows what was going on in his head.

Mel the Redcap

  • Scheming Foreign Hussy!
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1019
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #65 on: December 10, 2013, 08:49:57 PM »
I have to agree that Larry is definitely the rude one here. Aunt declares "only family" (and yes, my reading of the conditions does sound like other people were invited without girlfriends/boyfriends, not just Larry). Larry decides that shouldn't apply to him and asks for an exception. Aunt refuses the exception.

At this point Larry *should* have either attended alone, or gone elsewhere with his girlfriend. Instead, he goes around telling people "Aunt says not to bring her but I'm going to anyway!" He gets told not to by at least two people, and then does it. Rude, entitled, boorish, pushy, the list of possible adjectives goes on.

This is ENTIRELY SEPARATE from the question of whether Aunt should have made the restrictions, or was trying to make Thanksgiving her own party, or take over, or whatever. The information we have doesn't sound to me like Aunt was doing anything wrong, but I'll agree that further info (which I hope is forthcoming! ;D) could make it clear that she was herself being rude, or entitled, or whatever. For what it's worth, unless we get an update that tells us she was doing a full-on drama queen "you have to do everything my way because this is My Laaaaasssst Thaaaaanksgivinnnnng" act, I think she was perfectly within her rights to host a Thanksgiving dinner within her own abilities and with a restricted guest list.
"Set aphasia to stun!"

JoieGirl7

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 7419
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #66 on: December 10, 2013, 09:13:21 PM »
There are different kinds of family holiday celebrations.  If it is typical for these certain members of the family to get together for Thanksgiving then that celebration is something that needs to be accommodated for everyone in the family, not just the oldest one who might die at any moment.

If she wants to have a dinner where only family are invited and it isnít a traditionally shared holiday like Thanksgiving, then she should knock herself out because turning down that invite is not the same as not spending a family holiday with your family because they wonít let you bring your girlfriend.

*inviteseller

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1821
  • I am Queen Mommy
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2013, 09:24:46 PM »
I think it was rude for Auntie to turn Thanksgiving into her own "going into the an assisted living apartment" party.

If she didn't feel she could host properly, she should not have been hosting.  Presumably, had Larry still been married and not divorced, his wife would have been welcome.  Or, would she have simply not invited them at all? 

Adults form social units and others do not get to judge how significant someone else's significant other is.  I think the "rule" was rude to begin with and she should have known better.

Just because you are planning on dying before next Thanksgiving doesn't give you a right to push other people around.

This is really harsh.  My dad wanted his birthday celebration (his  80th) a year ago the way he wanted because he was very ill and he knew he wouldn't have many more (managed 1 more..barely and he was too sick for us to do anything big) and he invited who he wanted.  It would have been rude for one of us to show up with someone he did not specifically invite just because we were dating (and I do not get this woman from the op was his LT gf..just someone he was dating so IMO not a social unit) and said "Well, just because you want a special family only celebration because you are gonna die soon, tough, this is what I want.".  The aunt wanted one last memory in her home with the people she was closest too..not cousin and his latest fling.  If the family knew this was a serious relationship, they could have said to aunt "Hey Cousin and X are really serious so we want her to enjoy Thanksgiving with the family too as she is a part of our family now.", instead even his own father said don't bring her, she is not part of the family.  Also, as it is her house, she can say who she wants to invite and if the invitees don't like the parameters she is setting for the guest list, they are free to decline the invitation instead of taking someones hospitality and throwing it in their face.

Also, I recently began working in an assisted living facility...the holidays are very tough on the residents as they remember all the times they had in their homes, surrounded by their families so to give her the last holiday she requests is the most generous thing the family can do for her.  Larry is a moron for only thinking of himself.

*inviteseller

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1821
  • I am Queen Mommy
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2013, 10:02:41 PM »
As another poster pointed out, I think it matters whether there were other excluded boyfriends and girlfriends, or whether everyone else was married and therefore had their SO there.  It can be hurtful to attend family events alone when everyone else has an SO with them.  Again, I am not saying the Aunt was wrong and I agree Larry handled it poorly.  I just can understand that he would feel hurt, especially if he was the only adult attending without his SO.

I don't think it matters at all since not only GF/BFs were excluded. Sounds like it usually extended to friends, etc and those were not allowed either. If Larry took this personally, it's because he was being self-centered.

Quote
No girlfriends or boyfriends, no lonely neighbors, no old family friends this year, just family members

I disagree.  Again, I think Larry handled this poorly.  But if every other adult has his or her SO at Thanksgiving except Larry, I can see how he would feel bad about that.  Going through divorce is hard.  A recently divorced person is used to having a significant other with him at events.  If Larry were the only adult who was without an SO at the event, I can see him being upset.  Again, I don't think the aunt was wrong to exclude GFs and BFs etc.  I am saying that, while Larry handled this horribly, if everyone else had their SO at Thanksgiving aside from him, I can understand how that would make him feel bad. 

We are actually dealing with this in my family.  I recently married into a family where my SIL is a young widow.  Her husband died two years ago in January.  She has had various BFs since then, and several have attended family functions.  Of course these people are not part of the family.  But I can absolutely understand how it would be hard for my SIL to attend family functions and feel all alone.  I also felt that way after I got divorced from my first husband, and after my second husband died.  The family asks if she is bringing anyone, and if she does, well, she does.  She has been through enough that showing some compassion seems to be the right thing for our family to do.  I grasp not everyone sees it that way.  My only point was that, while Larry clearly handled this poorly, I can see that he is hurting.

Well, after the 3 rd divorce, he should be used to what it feels like.  He sounds like a self centered jerk whose only cares about what he wanted, not helping an elderly family member celebrate her last holiday in her own home.  You can't even compare his situation to a widow/widower (I have been in both situations as you have).  He is not someone whose marriage broke up suddenly after many years or someone who is hurting over an untimely death of a spouse, or someone who was singled out to be the lonely one on Thanksgiving.

sammycat

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6143
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2013, 12:44:44 AM »
Well, after the 3 rd divorce, he should be used to what it feels like.  He sounds like a self centered jerk whose only cares about what he wanted, not helping an elderly family member celebrate her last holiday in her own home.  You can't even compare his situation to a widow/widower (I have been in both situations as you have).  He is not someone whose marriage broke up suddenly after many years or someone who is hurting over an untimely death of a spouse, or someone who was singled out to be the lonely one on Thanksgiving.

Once again I agree with inviteseller.

cass2591

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3364
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2013, 01:17:46 AM »
There are different kinds of family holiday celebrations.  If it is typical for these certain members of the family to get together for Thanksgiving then that celebration is something that needs to be accommodated for everyone in the family, not just the oldest one who might die at any moment.

If she wants to have a dinner where only family are invited and it isnít a traditionally shared holiday like Thanksgiving, then she should knock herself out because turning down that invite is not the same as not spending a family holiday with your family because they wonít let you bring your girlfriend.

Audrey, assuming that because someone chooses to move to an independent or assisted living facility means they are on death's door is ageist at best. What it mean is the kitchen is likely very small and there is less room to host. not to mention the amenities these places have, depending on need.

And surely you know that the host can invite whomever they choose. If the relationship evolved to the point of it being a social unit, likely the aunt would know or be informed.


There is no pie in Nighthawks, which is why it's such a desolate image. ~ Happy Stomach

I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened. ~ Mark Twain

Adopting a pet won't change the world, but it will change the world for that pet.

zyrs

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2037
  • spiffily male.
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2013, 01:38:01 AM »
1.)  It was not rude of the Aunt to set invitations to family only.

2.)  It was not rude for the Aunt to tell Larry 'No." about bringing his new girlfriend.

3.)  It was not rude for your friend or Larry's dad to share their opinions of the situation if Larry brought it up to them.

4.)  Larry was rude for bringing an uninvited guest. 

5.  I'm not sure how she could have handled it any better than some previous posters have mentioned.

weeblewobble

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3361
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2013, 07:29:24 AM »
1) It was not rude for auntie to set limits on the sort of event she wanted to host.  We encourage people to do that here all of the time.  Her home, her cooking/cleaning/efforts to host, her rules.

2) It was not rude for the Auntie to tell Larry he couldn't bring his girlfriend. See above.

3) It was not rude for other family members to discourage Larry from bringing his girlfriend. He opened the door to other people's opinions when he declared his intentions to directly violate auntie's wishes in his immature, "neener, neener" manner.

4) Larry was incredibly rude for bringing an uninvited guest. His behavior was all about HIS wants, HIS needs, HIS feelings. He didn't think about anybody else. If he wanted to spend Thanksgiving with his girlfriend that badly, he should have made alternate plans.

5)  Hosts are under no obligation to open the door to people who they have made clear are not welcome in their homes.

secretrebel

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1032
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2013, 07:56:20 AM »
I think the Aunt and Larry were both rude. Larry was rude to push in his latest flame where she wasn't wanted.

But I would find it incredibly hurtful to be excluded from my partner's family gathering because (as many in this thread have stated) unmarried couples don't count as 'family'.

I also thought the rule was that couples count as social units.

Goosey

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1182
Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #74 on: December 11, 2013, 08:07:19 AM »
I believe it was that ESTABLISHED couples are a social unit. Not every GF/BF couple.