Author Topic: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest - UPDATE #219  (Read 30389 times)

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secretrebel

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2013, 12:07:23 PM »
I don't understand why Larry and his girlfriend absolutely, positively have to be together every second.  They can't stand to be out of each other's sight for a few hours on one day so Aunt can host her party the way she wants to?

You could say that of anyone - a husband and wife don't *have to be* in each other's company but you'd expect to include both in a party. Larry's new GF might be new and his track history with relationships might suggest to some that the relationship isn't serious. But - clearly to Larry - he considers her his partner and wants her to be included in family events.

To aunt she might be a stranger now but some day she could be Larry's wife. Is it better for her first memory of the family to be that she was invited and warmly welcomed to their holiday partner or that she was turned away at the door because she and Larry had only been dating recently.

Now, array should not have brought her when she was not invited but I can see why he would expect her to be invited and feel upset by her being characterised as a "total stranger". She's not a stranger to Larry.

Peppergirl

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2013, 12:22:47 PM »
I don't understand why Larry and his girlfriend absolutely, positively have to be together every second.  They can't stand to be out of each other's sight for a few hours on one day so Aunt can host her party the way she wants to?

I thought this too, but assumed my fiercely independent single-girl ways were just clouding my judgment.  :D  Glad to see I wasn't the only one that was thinking this.  It's a few hours in a day.  The world certainly wont stop if you take the high road and cater to the (justified, imo) whim of an old lady.

gramma dishes

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2013, 12:43:34 PM »
Even if they felt they couldn't be apart for even one second, Larry still had the option of not attending this function and doing something else with his girlfriend instead.  I'm sure the Aunt would have missed his presence, but I'm also sure she knew that her limits might possibly mean that a few people would be unable (or unwilling) to attend.

shhh its me

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2013, 12:58:32 PM »
I don't understand why Larry and his girlfriend absolutely, positively have to be together every second.  They can't stand to be out of each other's sight for a few hours on one day so Aunt can host her party the way she wants to?

You could say that of anyone - a husband and wife don't *have to be* in each other's company but you'd expect to include both in a party. Larry's new GF might be new and his track history with relationships might suggest to some that the relationship isn't serious. But - clearly to Larry - he considers her his partner and wants her to be included in family events.

To aunt she might be a stranger now but some day she could be Larry's wife. Is it better for her first memory of the family to be that she was invited and warmly welcomed to their holiday partner or that she was turned away at the door because she and Larry had only been dating recently.

Now, array should not have brought her when she was not invited but I can see why he would expect her to be invited and feel upset by her being characterised as a "total stranger". She's not a stranger to Larry.

Just useing the last post making this type of point.

I do think that if someone close believes its important a person they're dating attend a family function , its wise and kind to consider closely before saying "no"  but its not rude or bad hosting to simply flatly refuse.

I would point out though its an assumption that Larry feels his GF is "family" and a possible future wife.  Plenty of people very casually date many families don't mind a casual date at holiday celebrations.  Quiet a few people may use the designation of BF/GF after a few dates knowing they will never get more serious and will only date a few months or weeks.

perpetua

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #154 on: December 15, 2013, 01:13:34 PM »
Even if they felt they couldn't be apart for even one second, Larry still had the option of not attending this function and doing something else with his girlfriend instead. 

And, like I said a few posts up which nobody seems to have considered, perhaps he then runs the risk of getting it in the head for not attending Auntie's last Thanksgiving. He can't win.

nayberry

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #155 on: December 15, 2013, 01:27:01 PM »
Even if they felt they couldn't be apart for even one second, Larry still had the option of not attending this function and doing something else with his girlfriend instead. 

And, like I said a few posts up which nobody seems to have considered, perhaps he then runs the risk of getting it in the head for not attending Auntie's last Thanksgiving. He can't win.

so he says to his gf that he'll have a tg on the weekend with her but this is his aunts last year hosting as she's elderly and if the gf doesn't understand that then she's not a very nice person.

greencat

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #156 on: December 15, 2013, 01:38:44 PM »
Or even do what I did, the first year I was with my ex, when I knew he knew absolutely no one in town, and would be alone for the holidays, but our relationship was still far too new for him to attend my family's celebrations - I went to visit my family, but I cut it short instead of spending a long day there, and then came back and had dinner with him.  This worked because the big holiday meals in my family were being done at lunch.  Had they been done at dinner time I might have done it the other way around - have lunch with the bf, then eaten dinner with my family. 

gramma dishes

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #157 on: December 15, 2013, 01:41:35 PM »
Even if they felt they couldn't be apart for even one second, Larry still had the option of not attending this function and doing something else with his girlfriend instead. 

And, like I said a few posts up which nobody seems to have considered, perhaps he then runs the risk of getting it in the head for not attending Auntie's last Thanksgiving. He can't win.

Of course he can win!  He can attend Aunt's gathering for a while and spend the rest of the day with his girlfriend doing whatever they want!  Aunt and the rest of his family are happy he showed up.  Girlfriend is happy he showed up for her too.

He does need to explain the specifics of Aunt's request (and the why of it) to his girlfriend in advance so that she knows he's not deliberately leaving her out of the family festivities. 

Hmmmmm

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #158 on: December 15, 2013, 01:54:13 PM »
I don't understand why Larry and his girlfriend absolutely, positively have to be together every second.  They can't stand to be out of each other's sight for a few hours on one day so Aunt can host her party the way she wants to?

You could say that of anyone - a husband and wife don't *have to be* in each other's company but you'd expect to include both in a party. Larry's new GF might be new and his track history with relationships might suggest to some that the relationship isn't serious. But - clearly to Larry - he considers her his partner and wants her to be included in family events.

To aunt she might be a stranger now but some day she could be Larry's wife. Is it better for her first memory of the family to be that she was invited and warmly welcomed to their holiday partner or that she was turned away at the door because she and Larry had only been dating recently.

Now, array should not have brought her when she was not invited but I can see why he would expect her to be invited and feel upset by her being characterised as a "total stranger". She's not a stranger to Larry.

I don't think any of us know why Larry insisted. Based on his behavior of insisting this new girlfriend be invited, I will admit I don't attribute his desire to wanting his partner with him on a major holiday. I'm inclined to seeing it as wanting to show off for either his family or the girlfriend.

During our mid 20s DH and I entered into a pretty committed relationship very quickly. We'd both dated a lot and knew within a few weeks that this was it. But if I had been invited to a family only event I wouldn't have expected my family to include him as part of the family, especially if they hadn't met him.

Tea Drinker

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #159 on: December 15, 2013, 02:04:16 PM »
Larry spoiled his aunt's desire for one last good memory of a happy Thanksgiving, because his desire to be seen with his girlfriend trumped any consideration he should given his elderly relative.

Hmm. I think an occasion (holiday, dinner, wedding etc) is only ever spoiled if you let it be. People focus too much on having an occasion be 'perfect' and think it is 'ruined' if something goes awry.

I don't think Larry was right to bring his GF - although I'm not sure I agree that she shouldn't have been invited.  But I hope the aunt didn't let it 'spoil' the holiday for her. I think the last part of the story we got was "their aunt got very upset and angry…" I hope she got over it and was able to make her peace with the GF's presence.

Yes, sometimes people will claim that a small thing "ruined" an event because they're focusing on details or want to fit something exactly to a script. It doesn't "ruin" a wedding if one of the attendants has the wrong hairdo, or cousin Jay is caught in traffic and misses the ceremony and half the reception. But that doesn't mean nothing can ruin an event; using the wedding example again, a huge fight between the bride's parents, or someone getting drunk and screaming insults at the groom, might ruin the wedding even if the happy couple were able to slip off to their honeymoon hotel and say "well, that's done with, and at least now we're married, so that's okay."

If the aunt was worried about her dignity, especially at a point where she had limited stamina, an uninvited guest could make her day unpleasant. It's not just "well, everyone got some turkey, and nobody died." From the etiquette viewpoint, if I plan to do something for which my expected outcome is "I hope the person who invited me will be able to make their peace with this," that's problematic. (The examples I can come up with that would strike me as not rude are things like telling a relative that you're converting to a different religion, or moving halfway across the world, and wanting to give the news face to face. I don't think they apply here.)
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BarensMom

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #160 on: December 15, 2013, 02:50:25 PM »
Secretrebel, in many cases, an elderly person is emotionally fragile, especially considering the myriad health problems they face.  This aunt is in a position of giving up her home and her independence.

I don't know how old you are or if you've ever had close elderly relatives, but imagine that someday you will be in this aunt's position - you're elderly, you're infirm, you're facing having to leave the home you lived in with your husband or wife, raised your children and experienced many moments of happiness and sorrow.  You now have to move into an assisted living situation, among strangers, including those to whom you will have to submit in order to assist you in the most intimate physical details.

Since you'd be leaving your long-time home, you want one last intimate gathering of your family, as a good memory for them and for you to hold on to as you face the loss of your home, your independence, your health and your dignity.  You want your family to remember that one last good day as you were, instead of the person you are becoming.  However, since you are elderly, infirm, and emotional about leaving your home, you want this to be confined to your family, so they won't judge you.

Now, imagine, you are prepping for this last meal with your family.  You've set X number of places at the table, and it took you longer than it had previously, because the extra leaf in the table is almost more than you can handle and it took a good deal of effort to pull out X place settings and wash them by hand.  The turkey feels heavier than it used to, your hands hurt more when making the pies and mashing potatoes, and your legs and back hurts more from standing than it used to.  You're tired, you hurt, you know this is the last Thanksgiving you will ever host.  You're going to try to keep it together, but if you break down, it's just the family and they understand.

Now imagine, your nephew Larry shows up with some girl, a total stranger to you.  Now you need to rearrange the table, pull out that extra place setting, find the extra chair that you had put in the garage to be sent off.  Now you worry that there might not be enough biscuits, potatoes, or pie since you only made enough for X number of people.  Now you have to "perform" for a stranger instead of relaxing around family.

Now, Secretrebel,  whose feelings would you place first, the elderly aunt who is experiencing her last Thanksgiving as a independent host, or Larry, who has many years left of Thanksgivings he can spend with his girlfriend(s)?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 02:53:38 PM by BarensMom »

shhh its me

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #161 on: December 15, 2013, 02:55:22 PM »
Even if they felt they couldn't be apart for even one second, Larry still had the option of not attending this function and doing something else with his girlfriend instead. 

And, like I said a few posts up which nobody seems to have considered, perhaps he then runs the risk of getting it in the head for not attending Auntie's last Thanksgiving. He can't win.

It's possible but I still don't think its rude to say " You are invited , you may not bring a guest and if you do not attend I will be disappointed/mad/whatever"   There are cases were that would be down right mean but it's not an absolute that those conditions would even be mildly unpleasant.   

IF we do assume that Larry was in one of those " you must come" and it was MEAN not to include his GF , then while he may deserve some sympathy for having a difficult family. He was still rude to bring his GF.

gramma dishes

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #162 on: December 15, 2013, 03:01:51 PM »
Secretrebel, in many cases, an elderly person is emotionally fragile, especially considering the myriad health problems they face.  This aunt is in a position of giving up her home and her independence.

I don't know how old you are or if you've ever had close elderly relatives, but imagine that someday you will be in this aunt's position - you're elderly, you're infirm, you're facing having to leave the home you lived in with your husband or wife, raised your children and experienced many moments of happiness and sorrow.  You now have to move into an assisted living situation, among strangers, including those to whom you will have to submit in order to assist you in the most intimate physical details.

Since you'd be leaving your long-time home, you want one last intimate gathering of your family, as a good memory for them and for you to hold on to as you face the loss of your home, your independence, your health and your dignity.  You want your family to remember that one last good day as you were, instead of the person you are becoming.  However, since you are elderly, infirm, and emotional about leaving your home, you want this to be confined to your family, so they won't judge you.

Now, imagine, you are prepping for this last meal with your family.  You've set X number of places at the table, and it took you longer than it had previously, because the extra leaf in the table is almost more than you can handle and it took a good deal of effort to pull out X place settings and wash them by hand.  The turkey feels heavier than it used to, your hands hurt more when making the pies and mashing potatoes, and your legs and back hurts more from standing than it used to.  You're tired, you hurt, you know this is the last Thanksgiving you will ever host.  You're going to try to keep it together, but if you break down, it's just the family and they understand.

Now imagine, your nephew Larry shows up with some girl, a total stranger to you.  Now you need to rearrange the table, pull out that extra place setting, find the extra chair that you had put in the garage to be sent off.  Now you worry that there might not be enough biscuits, potatoes, or pie since you only made enough for X number of people.  Now you have to "perform" for a stranger instead of relaxing around family.


Beautifully said, BarensMom.

doodlemor

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #163 on: December 15, 2013, 04:26:17 PM »
Secretrebel, in many cases, an elderly person is emotionally fragile, especially considering the myriad health problems they face.  This aunt is in a position of giving up her home and her independence.

I don't know how old you are or if you've ever had close elderly relatives, but imagine that someday you will be in this aunt's position - you're elderly, you're infirm, you're facing having to leave the home you lived in with your husband or wife, raised your children and experienced many moments of happiness and sorrow.  You now have to move into an assisted living situation, among strangers, including those to whom you will have to submit in order to assist you in the most intimate physical details.

Since you'd be leaving your long-time home, you want one last intimate gathering of your family, as a good memory for them and for you to hold on to as you face the loss of your home, your independence, your health and your dignity.  You want your family to remember that one last good day as you were, instead of the person you are becoming.  However, since you are elderly, infirm, and emotional about leaving your home, you want this to be confined to your family, so they won't judge you.

Now, imagine, you are prepping for this last meal with your family.  You've set X number of places at the table, and it took you longer than it had previously, because the extra leaf in the table is almost more than you can handle and it took a good deal of effort to pull out X place settings and wash them by hand.  The turkey feels heavier than it used to, your hands hurt more when making the pies and mashing potatoes, and your legs and back hurts more from standing than it used to.  You're tired, you hurt, you know this is the last Thanksgiving you will ever host.  You're going to try to keep it together, but if you break down, it's just the family and they understand.

Now imagine, your nephew Larry shows up with some girl, a total stranger to you.  Now you need to rearrange the table, pull out that extra place setting, find the extra chair that you had put in the garage to be sent off.  Now you worry that there might not be enough biscuits, potatoes, or pie since you only made enough for X number of people.  Now you have to "perform" for a stranger instead of relaxing around family.

Now, Secretrebel,  whose feelings would you place first, the elderly aunt who is experiencing her last Thanksgiving as a independent host, or Larry, who has many years left of Thanksgivings he can spend with his girlfriend(s)?

Wow, BarensMom, your post brought tears to my eyes.  You really have captured the essence of the situation.  What a great piece of evocative writing!

IMHO, Larry is a brat.  I doubt that he really cares greatly about the new GF.  I think that he just wanted to show his family that he was still hot stuff enough to attract another woman after the 2nd divorce.  He was "saving face," so to speak.

Amara

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Re: The SPECIFICALLY not-invited guest (who was brought along, nonetheless)
« Reply #164 on: December 15, 2013, 04:48:30 PM »
Yes, BarensMom, you hit it exactly. My mother is 90--my dad died a year and a half ago--and it means the world to her to have her children and grandchildren around her for the holidays and to have the memories she created for us for so many years to still be there for her. The opportunity to give to the elderly something so meaningful is wonderful, and for someone to want to selfishly change that is thoroughly wrong. If you can help make meaning for them, do it. You have time after that for your own wants and desires. They may not.