Author Topic: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."  (Read 11122 times)

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circlekiller

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2013, 04:44:14 PM »
Thanks everyone.  I know it's too late this time to say anything, but as this is not the first time my brother has pushed me to include her, I was looking for phrases for the next time.  My brother actually met my SIL through me.  When I met her, I was a teenager.  As I've gotten older, her behavior, her dress, her maturity, nothing has changed.  When I talk to her, its like talking to a teenager.  I've seen her pitch fits like a toddler.  I just lead a very different life, I work, I'm into fitness, we just have nothing in common. Plus, there have been several times her behavior has been completely unacceptable, and while my brother may forgive and forget, when it affects other family members (like driving blitzed out of her mind with my niece in the car, in which she hit and damaged property and then drove off), I'm not as quick to just sweep it under the rug as he is.  Then I'm the villain because I refuse to take her anywhere alcohol is involved.  After that incident, it was about a year before I would even speak to her again and only because she had stopped drinking. 

If it wasn't for the fact she was my brother's wife, she would have long since faded away.  As for brother, he will get over it and hopefully before the slew of family/holiday events coming up.  I just do my best to try and stay away from the entire situation but my brother does his best to involve me in it.   ::)

sammycat

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2013, 05:20:53 PM »
I can't help feeling a bit sorry for your SIL - stay at home mom, so not much adult interaction during the day. Her husband doesn't want to go out with her, her sister-in-law doesn't want anything to do with her. She needs somebody to pay attention to her and just as kids sometimes do - negative attention is better than none at all.  I agree that your brother shouldn't have foisted her off on you without asking, but still have to wonder what kind of pain she's going through...

I know this is going to sound mean, but I don't feel sorry for her.  Her behavior is leading to her isolation.  And you can't say, "Well, maybe she doesn't realize how badly she's behaving" because she's been told/demonstrated to repeatedly that what she's doing is unacceptable. (The friend telling her to stop massaging him, the OP's friends agreeing that the behavior was inappropriate, etc.)  She just doesn't care.  As long as it's more important to her to behave as she wishes than to behave appropriately, she will be lonely.

I don't feel sorry for her either. Plenty of people spend the day at home alone/could be lonely and don't turn into alcoholics who behave and dress inappropriately in public.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 07:59:32 PM by sammycat »

*inviteseller

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2013, 07:49:30 PM »
Many moons ago, I had a long term temp job in an attorney's office.  While not the top firm in the least, I do know that these events are classy and also, for many top firm attorney's who have to do alot of client entertaining, spouses are seen as an asset.  I think showing up with your SIL, trashy or not would seem like you just brought along someone for the free food/booze.  The fact though that she is basically, such a hot mess her own husband doesn't want her at HIS holiday party speaks volumes.  Quit apologizing to your brother.  You did nothing wrong.  He made an (incorrect) assumption and invited his wife to your business function which is not even in the realm of polite.  He isn't mad you said what you did..he is mad he can't palm her off on you, IMO.

sammycat

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2013, 08:00:15 PM »
Many moons ago, I had a long term temp job in an attorney's office.  While not the top firm in the least, I do know that these events are classy and also, for many top firm attorney's who have to do alot of client entertaining, spouses are seen as an asset.  I think showing up with your SIL, trashy or not would seem like you just brought along someone for the free food/booze.  The fact though that she is basically, such a hot mess her own husband doesn't want her at HIS holiday party speaks volumes.  Quit apologizing to your brother.  You did nothing wrong.  He made an (incorrect) assumption and invited his wife to your business function which is not even in the realm of polite.  He isn't mad you said what you did..he is mad he can't palm her off on you, IMO.

I agree.

katycoo

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2013, 08:30:08 PM »
Thanks ladies, I don't want to lie about not being able to bring another person other than a significant other but I do like the "I've made other plans" line. 

"It woudln't be appropriate for me to bring SIL.  I expect the other Plus 1s to be partners or significant others."

Its not a lie.  You're not saying you wouldn't be allowed, but based on what you've said, it absolutely wouldn't be appropriate.

gramma dishes

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2013, 09:02:06 PM »
Thanks ladies, I don't want to lie about not being able to bring another person other than a significant other but I do like the "I've made other plans" line. 

"It woudln't be appropriate for me to bring SIL.  I expect The firm expects  Plus 1s to be partners or significant others."

Its not a lie.  You're not saying you wouldn't be allowed, but based on what you've said, it absolutely wouldn't be appropriate.

Or you could even change that just ever so slightly.

cheyne

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2013, 09:44:02 PM »

A male coworker married an exotic dancer and brought her to a company dinner.  She was dressed very revealingly and flirted with other men.  The next day management had a talk with him.  The incident provoked a lot of gossip and resulted in the man losing respect from his coworkers.  That was 15 years ago, and it still gets brought up every holiday season.

Stick to your guns.  Your brother is in the wrong, and as has already been said, he can get over it or die mad.

This makes no sense to me, CDL, what was the guy supposed to do?  He is married to the exotic dancer, was he supposed to leave her at home?  What the heck could management say to him as he brought his wife to the party, not some random woman?  Was she banned from company parties for life? 

I don't think much of your co-workers if they have continued to gossip over something this silly for 15 years, IMO they need to get a life.

*I am not saying you were gossiping or had anything to do with this at all, it just seems so odd to me.*

jedikaiti

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2013, 09:49:03 PM »

A male coworker married an exotic dancer and brought her to a company dinner.  She was dressed very revealingly and flirted with other men.  The next day management had a talk with him.  The incident provoked a lot of gossip and resulted in the man losing respect from his coworkers.  That was 15 years ago, and it still gets brought up every holiday season.

Stick to your guns.  Your brother is in the wrong, and as has already been said, he can get over it or die mad.

This makes no sense to me, CDL, what was the guy supposed to do?  He is married to the exotic dancer, was he supposed to leave her at home?  What the heck could management say to him as he brought his wife to the party, not some random woman?  Was she banned from company parties for life? 

I don't think much of your co-workers if they have continued to gossip over something this silly for 15 years, IMO they need to get a life.

*I am not saying you were gossiping or had anything to do with this at all, it just seems so odd to me.*

They probably explained the need to instruct her on appropriate dress and behavior at office functions, and warned him about the likely professional consequences of the incident were to be repeated, at theirs or any other company.
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citadelle

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2013, 09:58:07 PM »

A male coworker married an exotic dancer and brought her to a company dinner.  She was dressed very revealingly and flirted with other men.  The next day management had a talk with him.  The incident provoked a lot of gossip and resulted in the man losing respect from his coworkers.  That was 15 years ago, and it still gets brought up every holiday season.

Stick to your guns.  Your brother is in the wrong, and as has already been said, he can get over it or die mad.

This makes no sense to me, CDL, what was the guy supposed to do?  He is married to the exotic dancer, was he supposed to leave her at home?  What the heck could management say to him as he brought his wife to the party, not some random woman?  Was she banned from company parties for life? 

I don't think much of your co-workers if they have continued to gossip over something this silly for 15 years, IMO they need to get a life.

*I am not saying you were gossiping or had anything to do with this at all, it just seems so odd to me.*

They probably explained the need to instruct her on appropriate dress and behavior at office functions, and warned him about the likely professional consequences of the incident were to be repeated, at theirs or any other company.

If there was a dress code, explicit or implied, she should have followed it. If it is just that her profession and perceived flirtatiousness were titallating, I find that kind of small and sad.

Emmy

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2013, 09:59:36 PM »

A male coworker married an exotic dancer and brought her to a company dinner.  She was dressed very revealingly and flirted with other men.  The next day management had a talk with him.  The incident provoked a lot of gossip and resulted in the man losing respect from his coworkers.  That was 15 years ago, and it still gets brought up every holiday season.

Stick to your guns.  Your brother is in the wrong, and as has already been said, he can get over it or die mad.

This makes no sense to me, CDL, what was the guy supposed to do?  He is married to the exotic dancer, was he supposed to leave her at home?  What the heck could management say to him as he brought his wife to the party, not some random woman?  Was she banned from company parties for life? 

I don't think much of your co-workers if they have continued to gossip over something this silly for 15 years, IMO they need to get a life.

*I am not saying you were gossiping or had anything to do with this at all, it just seems so odd to me.*

I think the point is that when somebody bring a guest that acts inappropriately to work party, it is remembered, often for many years and may reflect upon the worker.  The same thing happened at my work.  The wife of a co-worker got really drunk one year at the holiday party and that incident was brought up at every holiday party for years.  I do think CDL's co-worker should have left his wife at home if she was going to dress and act provocative at his work holiday party.

Even if SIL was an angel at the party, charming, appropriately dressed and made up, the OP would spend a lot of mental energy before the event worrying about it.  (And from the description, it sounds as if there is a much greater probability of her dressing and acting inappropriate).  Her brother foisted this on her and I think she should say 'no' and try not to feel bad.  It may be too late this time, but next time OP can say, "that won't be possible" without offering other excuses. 

*inviteseller

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2013, 10:08:40 PM »

A male coworker married an exotic dancer and brought her to a company dinner.  She was dressed very revealingly and flirted with other men.  The next day management had a talk with him.  The incident provoked a lot of gossip and resulted in the man losing respect from his coworkers.  That was 15 years ago, and it still gets brought up every holiday season.

Stick to your guns.  Your brother is in the wrong, and as has already been said, he can get over it or die mad.

This makes no sense to me, CDL, what was the guy supposed to do?  He is married to the exotic dancer, was he supposed to leave her at home?  What the heck could management say to him as he brought his wife to the party, not some random woman?  Was she banned from company parties for life? 

I don't think much of your co-workers if they have continued to gossip over something this silly for 15 years, IMO they need to get a life.

*I am not saying you were gossiping or had anything to do with this at all, it just seems so odd to me.*


It wouldn't have been a big deal that he married an exotic dancer if she comported herself in a proper manner in a corporate setting instead of dressing provocatively and hitting on his co workers.  It is never a good thing if your spouse embarrasses you professionally and in some fields, it can be a career killer.  If John and Bob are both up for a lucrative promotion that consists of dinners and outings with clients the boss is not going to pick John if his wife can't hold her alcohol or treats his co workers with disrespect or is too flirty when Bob's wife knows how to dress properly for events, can hold a conversation, and has impeccable manners towards everyone from the janitor to the CEO.  And to keep from being accused of sexism..this stands true for Mary & Joan if Mary's husband drinks too much, gets loud, tells off color jokes but Joan's husband is mannered, a good conversationalist and friendly. 

SoCalVal

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2013, 10:29:35 PM »

A male coworker married an exotic dancer and brought her to a company dinner.  She was dressed very revealingly and flirted with other men.  The next day management had a talk with him.  The incident provoked a lot of gossip and resulted in the man losing respect from his coworkers.  That was 15 years ago, and it still gets brought up every holiday season.

Stick to your guns.  Your brother is in the wrong, and as has already been said, he can get over it or die mad.

This makes no sense to me, CDL, what was the guy supposed to do?  He is married to the exotic dancer, was he supposed to leave her at home?  What the heck could management say to him as he brought his wife to the party, not some random woman?  Was she banned from company parties for life? 

I don't think much of your co-workers if they have continued to gossip over something this silly for 15 years, IMO they need to get a life.

*I am not saying you were gossiping or had anything to do with this at all, it just seems so odd to me.*


It wouldn't have been a big deal that he married an exotic dancer if she comported herself in a proper manner in a corporate setting instead of dressing provocatively and hitting on his co workers.  It is never a good thing if your spouse embarrasses you professionally and in some fields, it can be a career killer.  If John and Bob are both up for a lucrative promotion that consists of dinners and outings with clients the boss is not going to pick John if his wife can't hold her alcohol or treats his co workers with disrespect or is too flirty when Bob's wife knows how to dress properly for events, can hold a conversation, and has impeccable manners towards everyone from the janitor to the CEO.  And to keep from being accused of sexism..this stands true for Mary & Joan if Mary's husband drinks too much, gets loud, tells off color jokes but Joan's husband is mannered, a good conversationalist and friendly.

Like it or not, this often is the way the world works.  If you have two individuals vying for the same promotion and they are equal in everything, the powers-that-be have to figure out how to select one over the other and, like it or not, inappropriate spouse behavior could be the deciding factor if things like client meetings that include spouses have to be taken into consideration.



CrazyDaffodilLady

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2013, 10:55:46 PM »
More about the exotic dancer wife . . .

No one would've thought twice if she had dressed and acted appropriately.  She was wearing a bright red dress, with her enormous bazoongas hanging out; the dress was slit to hip level, and she was purposely flashing a lot of leg.  She was brazenly flirting with men as if she were at her place of business rather than ours.  She was making enough of a scene that it was a disruption.

There were conservative high level executives present, and I think the decision to discuss the matter with her husband came from the top.

The responsibility really lies with the husband.  The wife may not have been to a professional function before and not known what to expect.  He should've provided some guidance, as well as reining her in once there.
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LeveeWoman

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2013, 12:46:03 AM »
More about the exotic dancer wife . . .

No one would've thought twice if she had dressed and acted appropriately.  She was wearing a bright red dress, with her enormous bazoongas hanging out; the dress was slit to hip level, and she was purposely flashing a lot of leg.  She was brazenly flirting with men as if she were at her place of business rather than ours.  She was making enough of a scene that it was a disruption.

There were conservative high level executives present, and I think the decision to discuss the matter with her husband came from the top.

The responsibility really lies with the husband.  The wife may not have been to a professional function before and not known what to expect.  He should've provided some guidance, as well as reining her in once there.

TootsNYC

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Re: How to say, "You can't come because of how you look."
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2013, 11:10:18 AM »


Like it or not, this often is the way the world works.  If you have two individuals vying for the same promotion and they are equal in everything, the powers-that-be have to figure out how to select one over the other and, like it or not, inappropriate spouse behavior could be the deciding factor if things like client meetings that include spouses have to be taken into consideration.

I think it absolutely is appropriate for the world to judge you by your choice of spouse.
Or by your choice of friends.

The key word is choice.

I don't think it's fair to judge someone by the behavior of the people they don't -choose- to be around.