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Author Topic: Teaching moment?  (Read 20719 times)

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perpetua

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #105 on: December 13, 2013, 03:58:18 AM »
I think that teaching the child the values of the coins in line pushed it across the line to unreasonable. Had it merely been a matter of having the child count out the coins (a child who knew the values, but was a bit slower in counting than an adult would be) then I'd think it was totally appropriate - even after she had noticed somebody coming up in the line behind her.

Yes, that. Perfectly reasonable (and cute!)

Peppergirl

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2013, 05:11:39 AM »
Lets take this a step further.  From the responses, it appears that even the PP's who were okay with the mother at first teaching the child, eventually then took issue with her looking at the OP, stating 'there's someone behind us' then proceeding to finish the lesson.

What if it weren't a child being taught money management?  What if it were someone who spotted someone she knew, and decided to chit-chat with the person as she blocked the cashier and the person behind her from starting her transaction.  What if she turned around and said 'oh, there's someone waiting behind me', and then made no move to continue her chatting elsewhere, but stayed in place and continued to chat.

Would that have been rude?  If so, how is it any different because it's a mother teaching a child instead of someone rudely blocking the register to gab with a friend?

To me, this is where the mother lost me.  Hurry or not, I could have dealt with the transaction being a bit slower due to the process of involving the child.  I probably would have even thought it was cute.  However, where she became incredibly rude was when she acknowledged the OP was waiting, then continued counting in place, and not making the step to move her lesson a few feet away so that the OP could continue on with her day.  To me, this bit actually (in my eyes) detracted from the lesson itself and possibly instilled the belief to the child that it's okay to keep people waiting needlessly.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 05:13:27 AM by Peppergirl »

etiquettenut

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2013, 06:42:07 AM »
I think the mother was rude for several reasons.

1. Primarily - her child was not ready to be participating in a transaction if she's still learning what each individual coin is. The child is only on the knowledge/comprehension level of the learning scale but the mother's trying to jam the application part in with it. Her lesson on recognizing coins and their values is one for home, not a grocery store. When the child is actually ready to complete a transaction, albeit a bit more slowly than an adult, of course they should be able to.

2. She commented on the OP behind her, yet made no moves to hurry along or adjust in any way. What was the point of even saying it then? She might have well just added, "and she'll have to wait till we're good and ready."

3. Some of this lesson took place with the change, with the mother again going over each coin and its value. To me, this is where it takes a turn into completely unacceptable. Her transaction was over, she should get out of the way. It's the same for people who want to pour over their receipt. No one's saying you can't, just get out of the way of the actual line first.

To sum up: I think the mother was rude because her child was not actually ready to be participating in a transaction. It's a grocery store not a classroom.

EllenS

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2013, 10:16:12 AM »

2. She commented on the OP behind her, yet made no moves to hurry along or adjust in any way. What was the point of even saying it then? She might have well just added, "and she'll have to wait till we're good and ready."

This particular point has come up often, and I am still seeing this as possibly the mom giving OP an opening. 

If I am talking to my child, and it is obvious that the person behind me in line is observing me (which could be characterized as "eavesdropping", but I am not meaning to be negative), I will sometimes include that person in the conversation with a remark or joke over my child's head.

I can see the mom saying "well, there's someone behind us in line....." and kind of waiting to see if OP says anything about wanting to go through. "No?" she thinks, "Well, it must be OK by her, we'll finish what we were doing."

Now that may not be what happened, but I think we are at that point in the conversation where everyone is "what if" -ing the OP into different imaginary scenes - some of them are definitely rude, some are not - overall, it seems like a hard call based on the info given.

Take2

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #109 on: December 13, 2013, 10:17:18 AM »
I think it's important for parents to be flexible in their teaching moments. If I think my kid can do the whole transaction, but it turns out he struggles with counting the denominations, it's MY job to brightly tell him "good try! Since people are waiting, I will give you this $20 to pay with and I will count the change today, and we can practice at home and try again next week all by yourself. You are getting so big!" And then at home I will hand the child random piles of change to count as a game and we will work on speed in my kitchen where there are no customers inconvenienced.

Sometimes the best teachable moments are just the opening gambit for a lot of follow-up at home that is more fun for the child because it has been made relevant out in the real world.

perpetua

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #110 on: December 13, 2013, 10:20:39 AM »
If I am talking to my child, and it is obvious that the person behind me in line is observing me (which could be characterized as "eavesdropping", but I am not meaning to be negative), I will sometimes include that person in the conversation with a remark or joke over my child's head.

I can see the mom saying "well, there's someone behind us in line....." and kind of waiting to see if OP says anything about wanting to go through. "No?" she thinks, "Well, it must be OK by her, we'll finish what we were doing."

I'm sorry, but the person behind in line shouldn't *have* to say anything. It should be obvious to the mother that they're holding people up with something completely unnecessary and the polite reaction in that situation should be "Oh, sorry, let me get out of your way here" and to carry on the activity elsewhere.

EllenS

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #111 on: December 13, 2013, 11:18:30 AM »
If I am talking to my child, and it is obvious that the person behind me in line is observing me (which could be characterized as "eavesdropping", but I am not meaning to be negative), I will sometimes include that person in the conversation with a remark or joke over my child's head.

I can see the mom saying "well, there's someone behind us in line....." and kind of waiting to see if OP says anything about wanting to go through. "No?" she thinks, "Well, it must be OK by her, we'll finish what we were doing."

I'm sorry, but the person behind in line shouldn't *have* to say anything. It should be obvious to the mother that they're holding people up with something completely unnecessary and the polite reaction in that situation should be "Oh, sorry, let me get out of your way here" and to carry on the activity elsewhere.

I think there is a correlation between the number of people who think they shouldn't *have* to say anything, and the number of people who walk around infuriated by other people's obliviousness.

Amanita

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #112 on: December 13, 2013, 11:47:23 AM »
I think the mother was rude for several reasons.

1. Primarily - her child was not ready to be participating in a transaction if she's still learning what each individual coin is. The child is only on the knowledge/comprehension level of the learning scale but the mother's trying to jam the application part in with it. Her lesson on recognizing coins and their values is one for home, not a grocery store. When the child is actually ready to complete a transaction, albeit a bit more slowly than an adult, of course they should be able to.

2. She commented on the OP behind her, yet made no moves to hurry along or adjust in any way. What was the point of even saying it then? She might have well just added, "and she'll have to wait till we're good and ready."

3. Some of this lesson took place with the change, with the mother again going over each coin and its value. To me, this is where it takes a turn into completely unacceptable. Her transaction was over, she should get out of the way. It's the same for people who want to pour over their receipt. No one's saying you can't, just get out of the way of the actual line first.

To sum up: I think the mother was rude because her child was not actually ready to be participating in a transaction. It's a grocery store not a classroom.

^Pretty much All Of This.

I talked to my dad about the OP's scenario on the way to work last night. I asked him if he felt that what the mom in the OP did was over the line, and whether or not he would say anything. Now, my dad is one of the nicest people, not big on confrontation unless he really needs to be. And even he said that the mother was rude for insisting on having a teachable moment at THAT time and place, not caring who she held up. Especially one like teaching her kid what each coin's value was, which should have been done at home, before coming to the store.
And even he said he would have said something, asking the mother to please move over so he could pay for his groceries.

Having a child who already knows about coins and their value hand the money to the cashier isn't rude, even if it takes a moment or two longer. But holding up the line with a lesson which should have been handled before coming to the store IS rude.

bah12

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #113 on: December 13, 2013, 01:05:29 PM »
Again, you can go around and take offense at every two minute delay or unnecessary/inefficient act you come across if you want.  I think you'll spend your life very frustrated...but to each his own.  Taking two minutes during a non-busy time to let her child count out coins is hardly inappropriate (and I dont' think it's possible to explain all the coins in great detail in under five minutes, so obviously the child had these lessons before).  I'm sure we all think our time is the most important thing in the world...I know I value mine highly.  I wouldn't even blink an eye at a couple of minutes during that time of the day.  I'm not surprised so many of you disagree, but the attitude is disappointing.

QueenfaninCA

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #114 on: December 13, 2013, 01:29:10 PM »
I think taking more than 10% longer than the transaction needs to take is rude as soon as someone is behind you and needs to wait (unless the extra time really can't be avoided). If someone is behind you, you need to get your transaction done in a reasonably speedy manner.

So taking five minutes because your shopping cart is full, is not rude, because it just takes that long to scan your shoppings. Taking five minutes for a transaction that can be conducted in under a minute is incredibly rude as soon as you make someone wait.

Dawdling, chitchatting, teaching your kid about coins for more than a moment is rude.

LadyL

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #115 on: December 13, 2013, 02:16:53 PM »
Again, you can go around and take offense at every two minute delay or unnecessary/inefficient act you come across if you want.  I think you'll spend your life very frustrated...but to each his own.  Taking two minutes during a non-busy time to let her child count out coins is hardly inappropriate (and I dont' think it's possible to explain all the coins in great detail in under five minutes, so obviously the child had these lessons before).  I'm sure we all think our time is the most important thing in the world...I know I value mine highly.  I wouldn't even blink an eye at a couple of minutes during that time of the day.  I'm not surprised so many of you disagree, but the attitude is disappointing.

I don't see as merely inefficient. I see it as inconsiderate. I don't like it when people are inconsiderate of others, whether it costs me much time or not. I don't see what is "disappointing" about my view. You may have more time, or a more relaxed attitude about time, than others here (an unnecessary 5 minute delay for me might mean missing a train leading to a total delay of at least 20 min., for example). But to imply that those who object are being selfish with their time seems unnecessary.

EllenS

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #116 on: December 13, 2013, 02:29:55 PM »
Again, you can go around and take offense at every two minute delay or unnecessary/inefficient act you come across if you want.  I think you'll spend your life very frustrated...but to each his own.  Taking two minutes during a non-busy time to let her child count out coins is hardly inappropriate (and I dont' think it's possible to explain all the coins in great detail in under five minutes, so obviously the child had these lessons before).  I'm sure we all think our time is the most important thing in the world...I know I value mine highly.  I wouldn't even blink an eye at a couple of minutes during that time of the day.  I'm not surprised so many of you disagree, but the attitude is disappointing.

I don't see as merely inefficient. I see it as inconsiderate. I don't like it when people are inconsiderate of others, whether it costs me much time or not. I don't see what is "disappointing" about my view. You may have more time, or a more relaxed attitude about time, than others here (an unnecessary 5 minute delay for me might mean missing a train leading to a total delay of at least 20 min., for example). But to imply that those who object are being selfish with their time seems unnecessary.

But....but....but...if you were going to miss the last train to Clarksville, would you SAY something, or sit there and stew, and be upset because total strangers *should* psychically know you are in a hurry, or that every transaction *should* be completed within a maximum of 10% variance from optimal efficiency?

I think people (generally) are entitled to - you know - enjoy their lives. If I am in a hurry, I should say something.  If they get huffy, or refuse to let me through, then yeah that's rude.  But I just don't think the whole world is obligated to go fast, just because some people like to go fast.

whatsanenigma

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #117 on: December 13, 2013, 02:33:17 PM »
Again, you can go around and take offense at every two minute delay or unnecessary/inefficient act you come across if you want.  I think you'll spend your life very frustrated...but to each his own.  Taking two minutes during a non-busy time to let her child count out coins is hardly inappropriate (and I dont' think it's possible to explain all the coins in great detail in under five minutes, so obviously the child had these lessons before).  I'm sure we all think our time is the most important thing in the world...I know I value mine highly.  I wouldn't even blink an eye at a couple of minutes during that time of the day.  I'm not surprised so many of you disagree, but the attitude is disappointing.

I don't see as merely inefficient. I see it as inconsiderate. I don't like it when people are inconsiderate of others, whether it costs me much time or not. I don't see what is "disappointing" about my view. You may have more time, or a more relaxed attitude about time, than others here (an unnecessary 5 minute delay for me might mean missing a train leading to a total delay of at least 20 min., for example). But to imply that those who object are being selfish with their time seems unnecessary.

But....but....but...if you were going to miss the last train to Clarksville, would you SAY something, or sit there and stew, and be upset because total strangers *should* psychically know you are in a hurry, or that every transaction *should* be completed within a maximum of 10% variance from optimal efficiency?

I think people (generally) are entitled to - you know - enjoy their lives. If I am in a hurry, I should say something.  If they get huffy, or refuse to let me through, then yeah that's rude.  But I just don't think the whole world is obligated to go fast, just because some people like to go fast.

It is possible to be as efficient as possible without being fast, though.

perpetua

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #118 on: December 13, 2013, 02:35:45 PM »
Again, you can go around and take offense at every two minute delay or unnecessary/inefficient act you come across if you want.  I think you'll spend your life very frustrated...but to each his own.  Taking two minutes during a non-busy time to let her child count out coins is hardly inappropriate (and I dont' think it's possible to explain all the coins in great detail in under five minutes, so obviously the child had these lessons before).  I'm sure we all think our time is the most important thing in the world...I know I value mine highly.  I wouldn't even blink an eye at a couple of minutes during that time of the day.  I'm not surprised so many of you disagree, but the attitude is disappointing.

It has nothing to do with spending my life being frustrated at a two minute delay, and everything to do with the fact that it is massively, massively rude to deliberately hold people up. It is even ruder to *notice* that you're deliberately holding people up, then shrug and carry on like it's the person you're holding up who has the problem.




m2kbug

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Re: Teaching moment?
« Reply #119 on: December 13, 2013, 02:45:24 PM »
If you need to be somewhere at a specific time, you need to plan accordingly.  Whether or not someone will miss their train/bus, be late for work is irrelevant.  If you have to stop on your way to work to get gas or pick up dry cleaning, you need to plan for that extra time.  You need to make accommodations for potential delays.  That is YOUR responsibility, not mine, as another shopper.  If you have to meet a train or be at the doctor, you need to leave the house earlier to accommodate your errand or find another time to do it.  The extra time it took for this mother to help her child is no different than a delay that could be caused because there was no sticker on the merchandise and someone needs to go get anther one, or the cashier went to grab a pack of cigarettes.  To me, this slight delay is no different than any other slight delays that could occur and not the responsibility of the other shopper that you might be late for your appointment because of your mismanagement of time. 


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