Author Topic: another question  (Read 4456 times)

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artk2002

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Re: another question
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 08:33:12 PM »
While I agree that kids need to learn to deal with conflict, the spitting raises this to another level. That's something that an adult needs to deal with -- and should have been present to deal with. I have trouble believing that any responsible school would leave a bunch of kindergardners unsupervised to the point where that wasn't noticed.
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NyaChan

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Re: another question
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 08:37:31 PM »
Ok normally I say parents should be cautious about being overbearing - but if her daughter was really spit upon, then this crossed the line into something a parent should ask the school about to see what is going on.  That's just my opinion - don't have kids myself, but I remember wishing desperately an adult would intercede on my behalf as a kid and no one ever went so far as to spit on me.

Mergatroyd

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Re: another question
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2013, 09:14:39 PM »
Ok normally I say parents should be cautious about being overbearing - but if her daughter was really spit upon, then this crossed the line into something a parent should ask the school about to see what is going on.  That's just my opinion - don't have kids myself, but I remember wishing desperately an adult would intercede on my behalf as a kid and no one ever went so far as to spit on me.

There is still some ambiguity on whether the DD was in fact spat on (hucked a lugi style) or merely sprayed on by an overly spitty talker. In my experience it would be rare to find a very young kid who both can spit on command, aim for the face, and a kid who was spat on who didn't immediately wail at the top of their lungs. OP did say there was a teacher nearby. This age group is losing front teeth at an alarming rate, I'm afraid they can be a very spitty group.

NyaChan

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Re: another question
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2013, 11:24:16 PM »
Ok normally I say parents should be cautious about being overbearing - but if her daughter was really spit upon, then this crossed the line into something a parent should ask the school about to see what is going on.  That's just my opinion - don't have kids myself, but I remember wishing desperately an adult would intercede on my behalf as a kid and no one ever went so far as to spit on me.

There is still some ambiguity on whether the DD was in fact spat on (hucked a lugi style) or merely sprayed on by an overly spitty talker. In my experience it would be rare to find a very young kid who both can spit on command, aim for the face, and a kid who was spat on who didn't immediately wail at the top of their lungs. OP did say there was a teacher nearby. This age group is losing front teeth at an alarming rate, I'm afraid they can be a very spitty group.

Yeah that's why I said "if her daughter was really spit upon"

kareng57

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Re: another question
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2013, 11:36:31 PM »
::delurks::

I thought I could shed some light by pointing out that to "budge" means to cut in line.
"Don't budge" = "Don't cut in front of me."

::relurks::

Thank you. I think that most of us have never heard the term used that way. To me "budge" means to move. "Don't budge" means "stay right there."


I too had never heard the term used that way.

I'm also a bit baffled about involving the school-secretary in this dispute.  IME, this would not be part of his/her duties.


citadelle

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Re: another question
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2013, 11:50:09 PM »
Definition of "budge" via Wikipedia:

"Cutting in line, also known as line/queue jumping, butting, barging, budding, budging, skipping, ditching, breaking, shorting, or pushing in is the act of entering a queue or line at any position other than the end. The act, which may be taboo in some instances, stands in stark contrast to the normal policy of first come, first served that governs most queue areas."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_in_line

m2kbug

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Re: another question
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2013, 11:55:58 PM »
::delurks::

I thought I could shed some light by pointing out that to "budge" means to cut in line.
"Don't budge" = "Don't cut in front of me."

::relurks::

Thank you. I think that most of us have never heard the term used that way. To me "budge" means to move. "Don't budge" means "stay right there."


I too had never heard the term used that way.

I'm also a bit baffled about involving the school-secretary in this dispute.  IME, this would not be part of his/her duties.

I'm not sure what the school secretary is.  I think we're dealing with regional differences/terminology here.  I think it is appropriate to call the school if you need to sort out the details of what happened.  You may not get a good description from your 5-year-old, and it would be nice to hear the other side of the story from another adult, presumably the aide/teacher who supervises on the bus and was there during the dispute, and who better than to call than the school/teacher who could, at the very least, direct you?  You may come across as "one of those," but my motivation would only be to figure out the other side of the story and go from there.  I don't know that I would call the school straight up in this situation, but I can assume from the OP's child's description, she felt it warranted a call.  It can be a balancing act, when to call/not call.

I considered no budging=no moving, so it made no sense at all.  :)

figee

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Re: another question
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2013, 03:39:54 AM »
Definition of "budge" via Wikipedia:

"Cutting in line, also known as line/queue jumping, butting, barging, budding, budging, skipping, ditching, breaking, shorting, or pushing in is the act of entering a queue or line at any position other than the end. The act, which may be taboo in some instances, stands in stark contrast to the normal policy of first come, first served that governs most queue areas."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_in_line

From the same source, "Budge is a verb, meaning to move."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budge

And every other definition of the term I've found is the same.

So maybe the whole incident is a misunderstanding?



daen

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Re: another question
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2013, 08:50:46 AM »
I haven't heard "budging" used as "cutting in line" for years - probably not since I had to wait in line for the elementary school bus myself. I always thought it was because people either had misheard "butting (in)" as "budging", or used it as a less-offensive and abbreviated form of "butting in."

I would agree that the tipping point would be deliberate vs accidental spitting. Spit happens, and one needs to learn to deal with it on one's own. Deliberate spitting, though, would indicate a need to intervene.

jaxsue

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Re: another question
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2013, 01:11:27 PM »
::delurks::

I thought I could shed some light by pointing out that to "budge" means to cut in line.
"Don't budge" = "Don't cut in front of me."

::relurks::

Thank you. I think that most of us have never heard the term used that way. To me "budge" means to move. "Don't budge" means "stay right there."


I too had never heard the term used that way.

I'm also a bit baffled about involving the school-secretary in this dispute.  IME, this would not be part of his/her duties.

Count me as another person who uses "don't budge" to mean "don't move." So that's why it was confusing.

Lynn2000

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Re: another question
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2013, 06:07:52 PM »
This reminds me of an incident from my childhood. I was in elementary school, so maybe 8 years old. In addition to the hot lunch the school provided peanut butter sandwiches for kids to eat at lunch time, all stacked up in a bin. I went up to get one and was picking through them. Another kid my age came up to me and yelled, "You touch it, you take it!" Now, he was absolutely correct that I shouldn't be touching all the (unwrapped) sandwiches. I don't think that negates him yelling at me in a curt tone, though, so I think we were both in the wrong. I remember telling my mom about it later and we had a good discussion about how the way you say something can be as important as the message you convey--that you can be "in the right" but also rude (obviously in much simpler terms).

So maybe that would be a good starting point for the OP's daughter. Probably, the boy was wrong to cut in line, and her daughter was right to assert herself (as we would do with an adult who cut in line). But the tone and words she used might have been overly hostile, and maybe they could talk about other ways to handle that part of it. I think she did well in telling the other girl to stop and in not escalating that part, so I would praise her for that.

I would also talk through other possibilities--I guess I don't know how many other facets kids that age can handle, but it might be good to think about things like, did it look like this kid had a legitimate need to go first? Was he joining his sister (the hostile girl?) who happened to be at the front already, and if so, does that really constitute cutting in line? I would ask, do you think she really meant to spit on you, or did it just happen by accident? Maybe these aren't questions that are possible to answer, but I think it's important to think about them--kids often have trouble seeing other POVs and imagining that things are different from what they first supposed. I think of an angry guy who shouts that someone "shoved" him when they just accidentally brushed him--that's a guy who has not learned to de-escalate situations, you know? So the whole thing might make a good teaching moment.

I would probably only call the school if the incident was part of a pattern, or involved physical violence like shoving.
~Lynn2000

fountainof

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Re: another question
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2013, 01:04:34 PM »
I like Lynn's advice.  I have a 4.5 yo who like to police people's actions and I have had to have many a discussion with her that it is not her place to tell people what to do or enforce rules.  She can ask people not to do things to her (like push) but telling others kids not to do things that are against the rules is the place of a teacher.  At such a young age correcting other kids can really get out of hand as they have no discretion on what is reasonable or not.  Telling someone not to hit someone else good.  Telling someone that socks must be worn in the play structure at McDonalds, none of your business.

My daughter thinks blowing raspberries is spitting so saying someone spit at her really doesn't mean much.  This has caused a few issues with younger kids as often near babies blow raspberries as part of their vocalization process.  But other kids might understand spitting better than my DD.

Allyson

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Re: another question
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2013, 01:49:34 PM »
When I was in elementary school, "don't budge" was a very common way to say "don't cut in line". I don't know where it came from, and I don't know that I've heard it since then, but when I read the OP I immediately knew what it meant; so it's not just her. It is kind of a weird term, now that I think about it...