I can't believe he said this!

[fklwmn]

Telling the child not to open store merchandise is reasonable parenting.  Beyond that, what this man said to the child was abusive.  Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about it by the authorities, and I don't think etiquette allows people to step in on the child's behalf in a situation like this.

I think abusive is a really strong word to use here especially since we have no idea of exactly what happened. I can honestly say that I have been told more then once by my parents that I am a pain in the bacon-fed knave. I lived to tell the tale. I dont feel abused or mistreated~as a matter of fact I was being a pain in the bacon-fed knave!

As far as the old "Ill give you something to cry about" cliche, I mean come on. Its just a saying. Perhaps not the nicest saying but not abusive~more laughable then abusive really since I have never seen a parent actually follow thru.

Aleyria,

My mother used to say that to me when I was a kid, and believe me, I was terrified.  A small child does not have the life experience to know whether or not it is a saying.  And even if the kid is being a pain in the butt, saying so to the child accomplishes nothing constructive and is in fact name-calling.  It is okay for a parent to say, "You're misbehaving, and I'm really annoyed at you," but that's not what this man said.

So, no, I won't "come on" about this.  These are incredibly hurtful things for any child to hear.

I heard this as a kid too, but it never terrified me. I actually always just thought my dad was being stupid when he said it b/c i obviously already HAD something to cry about or else I would not be crying. Duh.

That said, I have never said it to my kids. I don't think it is an abusive statement (but then again, I never had any problem with fear as a parenting tool... It is not abuse for kids to be afraid of their parents' reaction to misbehavior), but I do still think it's a stupid one.

[Lisbeth]

Telling the child not to open store merchandise is reasonable parenting.  Beyond that, what this man said to the child was abusive.  Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about it by the authorities, and I don't think etiquette allows people to step in on the child's behalf in a situation like this.

I think abusive is a really strong word to use here especially since we have no idea of exactly what happened. I can honestly say that I have been told more then once by my parents that I am a pain in the bacon-fed knave. I lived to tell the tale. I dont feel abused or mistreated~as a matter of fact I was being a pain in the bacon-fed knave!

As far as the old "Ill give you something to cry about" cliche, I mean come on. Its just a saying. Perhaps not the nicest saying but not abusive~more laughable then abusive really since I have never seen a parent actually follow thru.

Aleyria,

My mother used to say that to me when I was a kid, and believe me, I was terrified.  A small child does not have the life experience to know whether or not it is a saying.  And even if the kid is being a pain in the butt, saying so to the child accomplishes nothing constructive and is in fact name-calling.  It is okay for a parent to say, "You're misbehaving, and I'm really annoyed at you," but that's not what this man said.

So, no, I won't "come on" about this.  These are incredibly hurtful things for any child to hear.

I heard this as a kid too, but it never terrified me. I actually always just thought my dad was being stupid when he said it b/c i obviously already HAD something to cry about or else I would not be crying. Duh.

That said, I have never said it to my kids. I don't think it is an abusive statement (but then again, I never had any problem with fear as a parenting tool... It is not abuse for kids to be afraid of their parents' reaction to misbehavior), but I do still think it's a stupid one.

This statement implies that what they will have to cry about is being physically punished.  If a parent is going to ground, time-out, or take away privileges from a child, they can do it without this sentence.  The sentence isn't just stupid if the child thinks it's a real threat; it's really cruel.

I got smacked and spanked as a small kid, and was threatened with smacks and spankings, and I have really horrible memories of it.

[fklwmn]

Telling the child not to open store merchandise is reasonable parenting.  Beyond that, what this man said to the child was abusive.  Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about it by the authorities, and I don't think etiquette allows people to step in on the child's behalf in a situation like this.

I think abusive is a really strong word to use here especially since we have no idea of exactly what happened. I can honestly say that I have been told more then once by my parents that I am a pain in the bacon-fed knave. I lived to tell the tale. I dont feel abused or mistreated~as a matter of fact I was being a pain in the bacon-fed knave!

As far as the old "Ill give you something to cry about" cliche, I mean come on. Its just a saying. Perhaps not the nicest saying but not abusive~more laughable then abusive really since I have never seen a parent actually follow thru.

Aleyria,

My mother used to say that to me when I was a kid, and believe me, I was terrified.  A small child does not have the life experience to know whether or not it is a saying.  And even if the kid is being a pain in the butt, saying so to the child accomplishes nothing constructive and is in fact name-calling.  It is okay for a parent to say, "You're misbehaving, and I'm really annoyed at you," but that's not what this man said.

So, no, I won't "come on" about this.  These are incredibly hurtful things for any child to hear.

I heard this as a kid too, but it never terrified me. I actually always just thought my dad was being stupid when he said it b/c i obviously already HAD something to cry about or else I would not be crying. Duh.

That said, I have never said it to my kids. I don't think it is an abusive statement (but then again, I never had any problem with fear as a parenting tool... It is not abuse for kids to be afraid of their parents' reaction to misbehavior), but I do still think it's a stupid one.

This statement implies that what they will have to cry about is being physically punished.  If a parent is going to ground, time-out, or take away privileges from a child, they can do it without this sentence.  The sentence isn't just stupid if the child thinks it's a real threat; it's really cruel.

I got smacked and spanked as a small kid, and was threatened with smacks and spankings, and I have really horrible memories of it.

Oh, I know what it implies. I knew what it implied then too, as I was punished with spankings as well. ButI still thought it was a stupid statemetn. As though anything that is not physical pain is not a 'reason' to cry.As an adult I think it's even more stupid b/c It's been a LONG time since I have been in enough physical pain to make me cry. Yet, I cry on almost a daily basis lately.

I'd bet if the child thinks it is a real threat, that is b/c is is a real threat. At least, it was when my dad said it. I still wouldn't call it abusive. Just stupid.

[Lisbeth]

Adults who threaten their children with real violence, or imply it, are not being merely stupid.

They have crossed the line into abuse.

Effective discipline does not require threatening to smack, spank, or "give something to cry about" and often doesn't include those actions because they don't work as discipline.  They just cause pain.

[fklwmn]

Adults who threaten their children with real violence, or imply it, are not being merely stupid.

They have crossed the line into abuse.

Effective discipline does not require threatening to smack, spank, or "give something to cry about" and often doesn't include those actions because they don't work as discipline.  They just cause pain.

ahhh, well you're talking to a parent who believes that spanking is an effective parenting tool, when used correctly. So I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree, and you call it an abusive statement, and I call it a stupid one.

[Lisbeth]

Adults who threaten their children with real violence, or imply it, are not being merely stupid.

They have crossed the line into abuse.

Effective discipline does not require threatening to smack, spank, or "give something to cry about" and often doesn't include those actions because they don't work as discipline.  They just cause pain.

ahhh, well you're talking to a parent who believes that spanking is an effective parenting tool, when used correctly. So I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree, and you call it an abusive statement, and I call it a stupid one.

We'll have to do more than that, because I would at least consider reporting a parent who used this statement to the authorities.

[fklwmn]

Adults who threaten their children with real violence, or imply it, are not being merely stupid.

They have crossed the line into abuse.

Effective discipline does not require threatening to smack, spank, or "give something to cry about" and often doesn't include those actions because they don't work as discipline.  They just cause pain.

ahhh, well you're talking to a parent who believes that spanking is an effective parenting tool, when used correctly. So I guess this is where we have to agree to disagree, and you call it an abusive statement, and I call it a stupid one.

We'll have to do more than that, because I would at least consider reporting a parent who used this statement to the authorities.

I hope, if you heard an adult doing anything that you consider abusive to a child, that you WOULD report it to the authorities. So, if you'd consider this to be abusive, I agree that you should report it. That said, I still don't consider it abusive and if I heard a parent say it in public, I would likely just roll my eyes. I probably would have done the same thing when my dad said it to me if I wasn't busy crying about whatever I was crying about at the time.

[goblue2539]

I think the missing pieces of the puzzle are
1. What is the relationship between the two? Are we sure that this was a father talking to his son, or could it have been an older brother, cousin, neighbor, babysitter?  Now, I'm not saying that a different relationship would automatically make it right, but I do know that I can say things to my siblings that my mom can't get away with saying. 
2. What tone of voice did he use?  I'm guessing that we never would've heard this story had the man in question not been angry.  But, I think a lot of us are reading it in the tone that we would actually say it (if we would) as opposed to how it was said.  I know if I tell my brother he's being a pain, he knows I'm annoyed with him but there's no punishment coming.  It's just time for him to go home.  And I would never use the whole phrase.  If there is only one place in the entire world I manage to watch my language, it's in front of my siblings. 

[RuneGuardian]

To RuneGuardian: Can you describe what about "You're such a pain in the..." said to a child is at all effective as a method of discipline?

I wouldn't call that discipline - I'd call it being blunt. I see nothing wrong with it, and I honestly wish I could hear more parents telling that to their kids when said kids start acting like brats. If it makes the kids feel bad, then good - the kids should be made to feel bad if they've done something they shouldn't have.

[blue_bunny_paz]

I'd say the bit I object to was "I'll give you something to cry about" which suggests that crying is wrong. That can lead to a lot of repressed emotions.

I don't like parents using strong language in front of children, but I think threatening them for crying is worse.

[Brentwood]

To RuneGuardian: Can you describe what about "You're such a pain in the..." said to a child is at all effective as a method of discipline?

I wouldn't call that discipline - I'd call it being blunt. I see nothing wrong with it, and I honestly wish I could hear more parents telling that to their kids when said kids start acting like brats. If it makes the kids feel bad, then good - the kids should be made to feel bad if they've done something they shouldn't have.

Then tell the kid his behavior is inappropriate and discipline accordingly - don't tell the child he's a "pain in the @bacon-fed knave."

I always let my children know when their behavior is unacceptable. I manage to do it without calling them names.

[CocoCamm]

Keenreader, Cathy F, FLKWN:

I think you are being a little dramatic. I'm not trying to say that this parent was totally in the right but to call what he said abusive is just well IMHO its this kind of over reaction that makes it hard for good parents to parent. (Not saying that this guy is a good parents, maybe he is not, but I'm not going to deem him abusive over something that was overheard at a supermarket.)

"I'll give you something to cry about" is nothing more then the threat of a punishment which may or may not be carried out. Now unless this dad is actually abusive its not a "threat of violence" unless you consider everytime you've smacked your kids "violent"

"You're a pain in the bacon-fed knave" Perhaps its not a tool in discipline so much as a statement of fact. Now perhaps daddy dearest should have used a more friendly word like butt or neck but the saying stays the same. The kid was being annoying and dad let him know. Where I come from thats known as a warning.

[Alida]

To RuneGuardian: Can you describe what about "You're such a pain in the..." said to a child is at all effective as a method of discipline?

I wouldn't call that discipline - I'd call it being blunt. I see nothing wrong with it, and I honestly wish I could hear more parents telling that to their kids when said kids start acting like brats. If it makes the kids feel bad, then good - the kids should be made to feel bad if they've done something they shouldn't have.

I would call it being rude.  But then again, I wouldn't swear at adults, much less children, even my own.  Especially my own

[Lisbeth]

Keenreader, Cathy F, FLKWN:

I think you are being a little dramatic. I'm not trying to say that this parent was totally in the right but to call what he said abusive is just well IMHO its this kind of over reaction that makes it hard for good parents to parent. (Not saying that this guy is a good parents, maybe he is not, but I'm not going to deem him abusive over something that was overheard at a supermarket.)

"I'll give you something to cry about" is nothing more then the threat of a punishment which may or may not be carried out. Now unless this dad is actually abusive its not a "threat of violence" unless you consider everytime you've smacked your kids "violent"

"You're a pain in the bacon-fed knave" Perhaps its not a tool in discipline so much as a statement of fact. Now perhaps daddy dearest should have used a more friendly word like butt or neck but the saying stays the same. The kid was being annoying and dad let him know. Where I come from thats known as a warning.

Aleyria,
Whether it is abusive depends on the child's perception of it.  If they think physical punishment is imminent, and with a small child whose memory systems are not well-developed, they may very well think it is a threat of violence.  And if you've smacked your kids even once, that's violent.  

As for "you're a pain in the bacon-fed knave," small children internalize such "statements of fact" as personal descriptions of themselves and of their worth, and that has been known to really damage them psychologically.  

Please stop trying to convince me that I'm being "overdramatic" or "overreacting" or that these are statements not to be taken seriously.  I've seen and read about people who really got hurt by these statements and I happen to be one.

[Brentwood]

Keenreader, Cathy F, FLKWN:

I think you are being a little dramatic. I'm not trying to say that this parent was totally in the right but to call what he said abusive is just well IMHO its this kind of over reaction that makes it hard for good parents to parent. (Not saying that this guy is a good parents, maybe he is not, but I'm not going to deem him abusive over something that was overheard at a supermarket.)

"I'll give you something to cry about" is nothing more then the threat of a punishment which may or may not be carried out. Now unless this dad is actually abusive its not a "threat of violence" unless you consider everytime you've smacked your kids "violent"

"You're a pain in the bacon-fed knave" Perhaps its not a tool in discipline so much as a statement of fact. Now perhaps daddy dearest should have used a more friendly word like butt or neck but the saying stays the same. The kid was being annoying and dad let him know. Where I come from thats known as a warning.

I haven't said anything remotely dramatic. "Shut up or I'll give you something to cry about" is a threat of physical violence. I am not discussing the pros and cons of spanking, because I believe that for some people some of the time, spanking can be an effective tool. However, such physical force is violence, whether anyone wants to see it that way or not. Also, for some children, the threat alone can be more frightening than any actual violence. You may note that I did not say "abuse" or "abusive."

Whatever word used to fill in the sentence "You're a pain in the ___", I still don't call my kids names. I've been raising children for almost 20 years and have never called any of them names.

It is entirely possible to let your child know that what he has done is unacceptable without resorting to calling him names. I understand being frustrated. I understand being angry and at the end of one's rope. But bad behavior on the part of a child does not justify bad behavior on the part of the parent in response.