I can't believe he said this!

[Heavenly]

This statement implies that what they will have to cry about is being physically punished.  If a parent is going to ground, time-out, or take away privileges from a child, they can do it without this sentence.  The sentence isn't just stupid if the child thinks it's a real threat; it's really cruel.

I agree.

And, yes...I spank my children on very rare occasion.  Just for clarification.

I have seen this phrase used many times and, trust me, the child(ren) was(were) well aware of the reality of the threat.  It may not be the worse thing you can say to a child, but to say it's just a stupid meaningless sentence is simply not true for a lot of children.

Also, I would never tell my child that they were a "pain in the bacon-fed knave".  First of all, it's name calling--not acceptable from other people, why would it be acceptable from a parent?  Second, it's not effective parenting--address the behavior you want modified, enact discipline for the misbehavior--what does name calling do?  Nothing.  Third, it's demeaning to the child--they're going to make mistakes, they don't need hurtful labels because they make mistakes.  How would you feel if everytime you made a mistake at work, your supervisor called you stupid?  Make it again and you're a "pain in the bacon-fed knave".  Oh yeah--that's acceptable.  (not).

Discipline and name calling are NOT the same thing. 

If it makes the kids feel bad, then good - the kids should be made to feel bad if they've done something they shouldn't have.

You can make children understand that they've done something wrong (and feel remorse) without resorting to making them feel that they are the thing that is wrong.  Calling a child a "pain..." says to the child that they are the problem--not what they did.

[blue2000]

Count me in as one who would have to know what the relationship was between the two, and what tone the adult was using.

I have heard parents use these sayings all my life. Sometimes they honestly don't mean anything cruel by it, and the child knows this. Sometimes they do.

My parents were not physically violent with us, or inclined to swear at us. But if they had said "I'll give you something to cry about" they would have meant it literally. And believe me, we shut up pretty darn quick. If they had said "You are a pain in the (whatever)", they would also mean their words literally. And decades later, my brother's therapist has made big money on these words.

I think this is somewhat like teasing the child - if they know the parent isn't serious, just irritated, there is no harm done. If the child is upset by these sayings, the parent needs to seriously rethink what comes out of their mouth.

[VorFemme]

As far as the old "Ill give you something to cry about" cliche, I mean come on. Its just a saying. Perhaps not the nicest saying but not abusive~more laughable then abusive really since I have never seen a parent actually follow thru.

Sadly, there are people in this world to whom that sentence is NOT rhetorical.  It is followed by a swat to the rump, a slap to the face, or worse...........

[EvilAlice]

I've participated on a lot of message boards over the years, and what strikes me about this post and the reaction is this:

I've seen hundreds of posts from someone pointing out bad behavior in a child and what they consider to be ineffective parenting handling it.  These threads never get more than 3 deep without people coming out of the woodwork to say "you don't understand, my child is autistic/has ADD/ thinks Chuckie Cheese is a real giant rat coming to eat him/has some disorder or something/ and this is TRULY the best way for me to handle this."

Everyone then falls over themselves to acknowledge that only the parents TRULY know what is going on between the parent and child, and that OF COURSE the parent is the ultimate expert and knows how to handle this, and any second guessers be damned.

However, that courtesy is rarely extended to "old fashioned" parenting.  No, it's just not possible that this child has done this 5 times today, that the parent knows that the child uses tears to try to avoid punishment, that the child knows that "I'll give you something to cry about" means that something unpleasant but not abusive may happen, and that the child is not so sensitive that it will be scarred for life for hearing a simple statement of fact- that children ARE indeed, sometimes, a pain in the bacon-fed knave.

Even the slightest hint of sheer humanity from a parent in this case is enough to call the authorities and prognosticate years of therapy for the poor broken little child.

This kind of parenting was common for far longer than the current method of treating children like a glass easily shattered.  I tend to believe that  non abusive parents know if their kid is too sensitive to be talked to in a realistic fashion or hear them acknowledge that every second tending their child is anything but rainbows and daisies.  Abusive parents are going to be abusive despite all the tut tutting in the world about them not following trendy parenting methods .  Why don't parents get the benefit of the doubt in knowing that little snookums won't shatter upon hearing that they are, indeed, sometimes a brat, and it's frustrating to their parents?

[Lisbeth]

I've participated on a lot of message boards over the years, and what strikes me about this post and the reaction is this:

I've seen hundreds of posts from someone pointing out bad behavior in a child and what they consider to be ineffective parenting handling it.  These threads never get more than 3 deep without people coming out of the woodwork to say "you don't understand, my child is autistic/has ADD/ thinks Chuckie Cheese is a real giant rat coming to eat him/has some disorder or something/ and this is TRULY the best way for me to handle this."

Everyone then falls over themselves to acknowledge that only the parents TRULY know what is going on between the parent and child, and that OF COURSE the parent is the ultimate expert and knows how to handle this, and any second guessers be damned.

However, that courtesy is rarely extended to "old fashioned" parenting.  No, it's just not possible that this child has done this 5 times today, that the parent knows that the child uses tears to try to avoid punishment, that the child knows that "I'll give you something to cry about" means that something unpleasant but not abusive may happen, and that the child is not so sensitive that it will be scarred for life for hearing a simple statement of fact- that children ARE indeed, sometimes, a pain in the bacon-fed knave.

Even the slightest hint of sheer humanity from a parent in this case is enough to call the authorities and prognosticate years of therapy for the poor broken little child.

This kind of parenting was common for far longer than the current method of treating children like a glass easily shattered.  I tend to believe that  non abusive parents know if their kid is too sensitive to be talked to in a realistic fashion or hear them acknowledge that every second tending their child is anything but rainbows and daisies.  Abusive parents are going to be abusive despite all the tut tutting in the world about them not following trendy parenting methods .  Why don't parents get the benefit of the doubt in knowing that little snookums won't shatter upon hearing that they are, indeed, sometimes a brat, and it's frustrating to their parents?

Because "old fashioned parenting" has shattered children psychologically and physically.

As has been said earlier in this thread, it isn't necessary to call children names or threaten them with physical violence to achieve the same results as "old fashioned parenting" is supposed to supply.

[Brentwood]

I've participated on a lot of message boards over the years, and what strikes me about this post and the reaction is this:

I've seen hundreds of posts from someone pointing out bad behavior in a child and what they consider to be ineffective parenting handling it.  These threads never get more than 3 deep without people coming out of the woodwork to say "you don't understand, my child is autistic/has ADD/ thinks Chuckie Cheese is a real giant rat coming to eat him/has some disorder or something/ and this is TRULY the best way for me to handle this."

Everyone then falls over themselves to acknowledge that only the parents TRULY know what is going on between the parent and child, and that OF COURSE the parent is the ultimate expert and knows how to handle this, and any second guessers be damned.

However, that courtesy is rarely extended to "old fashioned" parenting.  No, it's just not possible that this child has done this 5 times today, that the parent knows that the child uses tears to try to avoid punishment, that the child knows that "I'll give you something to cry about" means that something unpleasant but not abusive may happen, and that the child is not so sensitive that it will be scarred for life for hearing a simple statement of fact- that children ARE indeed, sometimes, a pain in the bacon-fed knave.

Even the slightest hint of sheer humanity from a parent in this case is enough to call the authorities and prognosticate years of therapy for the poor broken little child.

This kind of parenting was common for far longer than the current method of treating children like a glass easily shattered.  I tend to believe that  non abusive parents know if their kid is too sensitive to be talked to in a realistic fashion or hear them acknowledge that every second tending their child is anything but rainbows and daisies.  Abusive parents are going to be abusive despite all the tut tutting in the world about them not following trendy parenting methods .  Why don't parents get the benefit of the doubt in knowing that little snookums won't shatter upon hearing that they are, indeed, sometimes a brat, and it's frustrating to their parents?

There is a whole lot of middle ground between the the two extremes of abusive and "rainbows and daisies." It really is possible to discipline, correct, and train children in good behavior without resorting to name-calling and threats of violence. A child hearing once or twice that he is a "pain in the bacon-fed knave" will likely not scar him for life. Children who repeatedly hear such things will internalize them. They won't recognize that it's the behavior that is the problem; all they will know is that they are bad people. And you know what? They'll live up to what they perceive is the expectation of them - that they're bad.

My parents were born in 1939. They raised children in the 60s, 70s and 80s, the "old fashioned" way. They did it without ever calling us names. I've never called my children names either. We all have weak moments as parents. We are all human. Sometimes parents do the wrong thing - and I'd include name-calling in that category.

[RuneGuardian]

Then tell the kid his behavior is inappropriate and discipline accordingly - don't tell the child he's a "pain in the @bacon-fed knave."

I always let my children know when their behavior is unacceptable. I manage to do it without calling them names.

Maybe the kid really is/was a pain in the butt. I know a lot of children who are such - is it really such a bad thing to tell the kid the truth? If I had a kid that was being a pain, I'd tell them so. If it hurts their precious little feelings, then I say 'hooray'; that's one of the ways they learn.

[Brentwood]

Then tell the kid his behavior is inappropriate and discipline accordingly - don't tell the child he's a "pain in the @bacon-fed knave."

I always let my children know when their behavior is unacceptable. I manage to do it without calling them names.

Maybe the kid really is/was a pain in the butt. I know a lot of children who are such - is it really such a bad thing to tell the kid the truth? If I had a kid that was being a pain, I'd tell them so. If it hurts their precious little feelings, then I say 'hooray'; that's one of the ways they learn.

"You are acting like a pain" is different from "You are a pain."

[Pixie]

I believe every family is unique, and since I wasn't there, I have no idea what was going on. 

[RoseRose]

I am not a parent yet, though I do work in childcare.  I am also still semi-at home (when I am at my dad's, it's being at "home" not as an adult in my parent's house).

I don't believe spanking (in the non-abusive sense of not leaving marks of any sort) is necessarily wrong.  I do believe it should be used as rarely as possible.

Even granting that, I find the statement "Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" completely and utterly wrong.  It's not punishing the negative behavior (opening the package), it's punishing the crying.  Also, children DO internalize what their parents say about them.  My father was never abusive in any legal sense.  However, I never did good enough for him, and I KNEW it.  It's taken a year and a half of being at college before I've hit my current point of only feeling that I'm not good enough occasionally.  Some children are more sensitive than others... And I never let my parents know how sensitive I was.  Some of my first conscious memories (of kindergarten) are of making sure I was calm before walking into my house after a day of teasing... that hurt, but I wanted, even at that age, to protect my parents.

Although I wouldn't necessarily call those statements in of themselves abusive, they may be indicators of possible abusive behavior, and even if not, that kid, if it really was his father, could easily grow up with issues.  *sigh*

This post comes out of my personal experiences a lot, though some of it also comes from my educational studies class... I acknowledge it's just opinion, but please be... not too harsh in arguing it, since some of this is still sensitive.

[Wordgeek]

This thread has wandered away from the realm of etiquette and is therefore closed.  Past experience has shown that discussions of this nature rarely end well.