Author Topic: Why isn't she speaking to me?  (Read 7768 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

VorFemme

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12787
  • Strolls with scissors! Too tired to run today!
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2013, 05:05:26 PM »
The way that I see it - Diamond and her mother are innocent of wrong doing - as Jade doesn't seem to have mentioned Ruby's trip to Diamond at all.  The OP is innocent of wrong doing, as she was not involved in the fiasco of "but where am I going to stay NOW?" - until some time later, when Jade doesn't know/remember/admit to herself why Ruby is no longer talking to her.

I'd have to get an apology and see a change in manners from Jade to believe that it wasn't going to happen again, if I were Ruby - but since I'm not Ruby, it's up to Ruby to let Jade know that what she did "absentmindedly" has consequences that she can't ignore - namely, Ruby is out of her social circle and the OP does NOT want to be dragged into the fiasco.
Let sleeping dragons be.......morning breath......need I say more?

baglady

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4609
  • A big lass and a bonny lass and she loves her beer
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2013, 06:25:06 PM »
I'm in the minority here, but I don't see any harm in OP letting Jade know why Ruby is upset. I don't see it as "being caught in the middle" or "it's none of my business" as much as it is helping two of my friends resolve a communication issue.

I was in a similar situation once many years ago, although it wasn't a friendship-killer. I was in charge of organizing an event -- a job that usually fell to someone else but this time it fell to me. Dave likes to do X at this sort of event, but he only does it when the person who usually does X isn't available. I told Dave a couple of weeks before the event that I would like to do X this time, *if it was OK with him.* He misheard this as "I'm going to do X." And he bailed on the event, to punish me for appropriating his X.

If it wasn't for a mutual friend telling me *why* Dave bailed, and then telling Dave how upset I was that he'd misunderstood me, Dave and I would not be friends today. As it turned out, after this mutual-friend-facilitated communication, Dave contacted me, explained his position, we exchanged apologies for the misunderstanding, and we made up.

If Jade were given a chance to explain and apologize, I think the friendship could be saved, or at least ended amicably. But if nobody (Ruby or OP) is willing to let her know exactly *what* she did wrong, that can't happen.

I'm not inside Jade's brain, so I have no way of knowing what the deal was. Did she forget her promise to Ruby? Did she flake on telling Diamond about the plan? Did her email access go south while she was out of the country? I'm not trying to make light of Ruby's disappointment in her, but I would like to think if she actually *knew* the reason for the cut, she would be falling all over herself to make amends.
My photography is on Redbubble! Come see: http://www.redbubble.com/people/baglady

AnnaJ

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 615
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2013, 09:13:21 PM »
I'm surprised that Ruby and Jade both assumed that Jade could speak for Diamond, and if I were Diamond I'd be miffed. 

Jade should have said she'd check with Diamond and get back to Ruby (love the names, by the way).  If she didn't, as soon as Ruby found out that Jade would be out of town she should have either checked with Diamond herself (if they were close enough) or asked Jade to get back to her after Diamond confirmed the plan would work. 

Allyson

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1929
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2013, 09:42:02 PM »
I don't think Ruby was being very considerate of the OP by essentially telling her why she was mad at Jade, but not wanting Jade to find out. I *do* find it passive-aggressive to do the "I'm mad at you, and you should *just know why." This sounds like it really could've been a nasty miscommunication anywhere along the line.

Leaving someone to wonder what they did wrong is nightmarish for me; I have been 'Jade' before, in that I've accidentally offended someone and not known why. They thought it should be obvious, but it wasn't. Everybody has such different boundaries that to cut someone over *one* issue and never talking to them about it just seems harsh and mean to me.

But then I am someone who really can't imagine ditching a friend for one offense without talking to them about it regardless of what it was, unless it was part of a pattern of behaviour.

CrochetFanatic

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 850
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2013, 10:29:47 PM »
I don't think Ruby is being childish or cruel, and I don't see how she owes Jade an explanation about anything.  I do think that this is between the two of them, and I wouldn't get in the middle of it.

bopper

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 12288
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2013, 09:15:26 AM »
Ruby no longer wants to have a relationship with Jade, so she isn't having one.
If she talked with her, that would be prolonging the relationship.

Yes, you have to stay out of it.

lmyrs

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1114
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2013, 10:45:55 AM »
I prefer to have plans "nailed down" when made, or I do not consider them to be solid plans. "Let's get coffee next week!" is not a "plan" to me. If someone said this to me, I would respond with, "Okay - can you meet at the coffee shop at 2 p.m. next Tuesday?"  And I would get a date, time and location in place.  Otherwise it is an aspiration, not a plan.  I suspect Jade thinks the way I do, and Ruby thinks the way several other posters have expressed.  This is why I absolutely think it is plausible that Jade does not understand what Ruby is upset about.

I think there's a huge chasm of difference between "Let's have coffee next week" and "I'll be in your town on October 15-17 for medical procedure. Can I stay with you?"

In the first example, it is really vague, no date/time, etc. And, if coffee doesn't happen, then the worst thing that happens is that coffee doesn't happen. In the OP's example, a date was set, Jade said it was ok for Ruby to stay and the only thing outstanding was Ruby's arrival time. Which likely wasn't yet set when the original agreement was made. To make matters worse, Jade did not return Ruby's follow up calls in a timely fashion, but instead waited until the night before Ruby's flight to back out of their agreement. If there was truly a problem, it was Jade's responsibility to let Ruby know as soon as possible, but especially to let her know as soon as Ruby started trying to confirm.

I'm with Ruby here. I think Jade was rude and, even worse, I think she was a really bad friend to Ruby. If this is Ruby's "last straw" with Jade, then I don't think she really needs to explain herself, but if she's waiting for Jade to "see the light" and apologize, then Ruby is dreaming and she should just let the friendship go.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5759
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2013, 10:57:34 AM »
...but if she's waiting for Jade to "see the light" and apologize, then Ruby is dreaming and she should just let the friendship go.

Regardless of how the arrangements were made or not made, and regardless of who is right and who is wrong (or more wrong), this is absolutely true, and this is why I think Ruby should either tell Jade why she is upset and give her the chance to apologize, or end the friendship and stop badmouthing Jade to other people.  It does not make Ruby look good, and is entirely unproductive.

As an aside, especially in situation where I am asking a favor, I am absolutely certain that I am on the same page as the other person.  Ruby did not do that here.  For all we know, last summer Ruby said, "I am coming to your town this winter for my surgery.  Can I stay with you?" and Jade responded, "I'll be traveling this winter but that could work out."  To me, the onus is on Ruby, who is asking the favor, to then confirm (and I would have done it right then and there) that the dates will be X to Y, I will be flying in at X time, etc.  The onus is not on the person doing the favor to follow up on vague plans with someone asking the favor.  Especially given the OP's updates, I strongly suspect this was not Jade being a horrible awful person but rather a misunderstanding....and Ruby refuses to clue Jade in on what she is upset about.

shhh its me

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6927
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2013, 03:02:35 PM »
I prefer to have plans "nailed down" when made, or I do not consider them to be solid plans. "Let's get coffee next week!" is not a "plan" to me. If someone said this to me, I would respond with, "Okay - can you meet at the coffee shop at 2 p.m. next Tuesday?"  And I would get a date, time and location in place.  Otherwise it is an aspiration, not a plan.  I suspect Jade thinks the way I do, and Ruby thinks the way several other posters have expressed.  This is why I absolutely think it is plausible that Jade does not understand what Ruby is upset about.

I think there's a huge chasm of difference between "Let's have coffee next week" and "I'll be in your town on October 15-17 for medical procedure. Can I stay with you?"

In the first example, it is really vague, no date/time, etc. And, if coffee doesn't happen, then the worst thing that happens is that coffee doesn't happen. In the OP's example, a date was set, Jade said it was ok for Ruby to stay and the only thing outstanding was Ruby's arrival time. Which likely wasn't yet set when the original agreement was made. To make matters worse, Jade did not return Ruby's follow up calls in a timely fashion, but instead waited until the night before Ruby's flight to back out of their agreement. If there was truly a problem, it was Jade's responsibility to let Ruby know as soon as possible, but especially to let her know as soon as Ruby started trying to confirm.

I'm with Ruby here. I think Jade was rude and, even worse, I think she was a really bad friend to Ruby. If this is Ruby's "last straw" with Jade, then I don't think she really needs to explain herself, but if she's waiting for Jade to "see the light" and apologize, then Ruby is dreaming and she should just let the friendship go.

IF Ruby is exactly right. This is the story as Ruby recalls events.  A small misunderstanding on each side could leave both people reasonable blameless.    Reverse it..... "My friend called and asked to stay at my place. I let her know I would be out of the country and added "you can (I think) still stay at mine with my partner , you'll have to speak with them to confirm though." meaning ask partner (maybe Jade said "I think" maybe she just meant it so recalls it as she meant it) I didn't hear back from friend and I didn't think to follow up.  While I was out of the country Friend left some voice mails and then emailed me. Its so expensive to listen to voice mails overseas I didn't know what she wanted until she sent an email.  I had no idea she was still planning on staying at my place I did the best I could and sent her an email right back."   I got back into town friend wont return my calls  etc.   

The issue is if I think you didn't even bother to tell me you were staying at my place I may not put together that misunderstanding with you not speaking to me.

Jade may have done a pretty horrendous thing but I don't think its 100% that she did.   

I think the etiquette is ....you can cut off whomever you like given some sort of reason is not necessary until they try to contact you 3 times.  At that point I think you do owe all but the most extreme cases(I mean criminal here) " don't speak to me again" if you cant say/write that phrase because you are still thinking about it you owe them an explanation.  I also don't think you can tell a  mutual friend whats wrong and swear them to secrecy 


dirtyweasel

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1395
  • Just keep swimming, just keep swimming...
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2013, 04:56:51 PM »
I prefer to have plans "nailed down" when made, or I do not consider them to be solid plans. "Let's get coffee next week!" is not a "plan" to me. If someone said this to me, I would respond with, "Okay - can you meet at the coffee shop at 2 p.m. next Tuesday?"  And I would get a date, time and location in place.  Otherwise it is an aspiration, not a plan.  I suspect Jade thinks the way I do, and Ruby thinks the way several other posters have expressed.  This is why I absolutely think it is plausible that Jade does not understand what Ruby is upset about.


IF Ruby is exactly right. This is the story as Ruby recalls events.  A small misunderstanding on each side could leave both people reasonable blameless.    Reverse it..... "My friend called and asked to stay at my place. I let her know I would be out of the country and added "you can (I think) still stay at mine with my partner , you'll have to speak with them to confirm though." meaning ask partner (maybe Jade said "I think" maybe she just meant it so recalls it as she meant it) I didn't hear back from friend and I didn't think to follow up.  While I was out of the country Friend left some voice mails and then emailed me. Its so expensive to listen to voice mails overseas I didn't know what she wanted until she sent an email.  I had no idea she was still planning on staying at my place I did the best I could and sent her an email right back."   I got back into town friend wont return my calls  etc.   

The issue is if I think you didn't even bother to tell me you were staying at my place I may not put together that misunderstanding with you not speaking to me.

I can totally see myself doing something like this and I'm one of those people like TurtleDove who needs a date, time and place nailed down before I consider plans solid.  I've just learned from experience with my friends and family that if they say we should meet up and give me a date that that's not solid enough and I should follow up with more solid details before I consider the meet up a definite go. 

I just think there was a huge miscommunication between both parties and I feel like Ruby is being really unreasonable in this situation by not telling Jade why she's angry.  No one is a mind reader and expecting Jade to "just know" why she's angry really smacks of unreasonableness.  It's obvious that Jade doesn't get the "lesson" that Ruby is trying to teach her and as evidenced by this site what some might consider common sense isn't by others.  If Ruby truly wants this friendship then she needs to bend a little and explain her anger.



GLaDOS

  • FKA TheAscension
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 266
  • Would you like some delicious cake?
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2013, 12:02:14 AM »
I think  mistakes were made on both sides.

Jade shouldn't have volunteered Diamond for hosting. From the posts, it doesn't sound like Diamond had any clue about what was planned. She also should have responded much sooner, or once she realised that she wasn't going to be available, passed on Ruby's info to Diamond.


Ruby should have started looking into alternate arrangements when Jade didn't reply for days.  Free with friends is always better, and money might be tight, but I much prefer having things settled and in stone well before I travel, so if I were leaving in two days and I hadn't heard from Jade at all, I would have at least tapped the other friend or started looking for a hotel.


 I think Ruby is being unreasonable with the silent treatment and no explanation to Jade. It'd be different if she kept it between herself and Jade, but what does she hope to accomplish by telling the OP and trying to rope her in? Yes, being left high and dry is not fun, but since this is the first huge misstep that Jade has made (from posts), I would probably explain why I was so hurt, and probably not rely on her for anything set in stone in the future.  People have different ways of communicating. People value different things. I'd base whether I wanted to continue the friendship on how Jade responded.
There's Science to do!

LifeOnPluto

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6525
    • Blog
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2013, 12:13:12 AM »
I'm leaning towards "Team Ruby".

Even if Jade assumed the plans were only tentative, once Ruby tried to nail down the details, Jade should have realised that Ruby was in a tight spot. By scrambling to make alternative arrangements one day before her flight, Ruby was seriously inconvenienced. Even if that inconvenience was not technically Jade's fault, Jade ought to have at least realised that Ruby *was* inconvenienced.

It also sounds like Jade's email to Ruby only made things worse. From what the OP stated, there was no acknowledgement of Ruby's situation. Instead, it sounded like Jade's tone was more "Oh well, you'll just have to find somewhere else to stay. That's how it is, etc."

Yes, Ruby could phone Jade and point out exactly how Jade upset her. But honestly, I can't fault Ruby too much for not wanting to "educate" Jade. I think most reasonable people would reflect back on previous interactions, and quite easily figure out that Ruby may be upset over the travel arrangements.

As for what the OP should do, I think she should tell Ruby that she won't actively seek out Jade to tell her why Ruby isn't speaking to her. But if Jade asks the OP directly, the OP will tell her the truth.

TurtleDove

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 5759
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2013, 11:20:51 AM »
I think the poster who said different people value different things nailed it. I would never ask a friend to stay with them because I would prefer a hotel and I hate to ask for favors. I would rather pay for a cab to or from the airport than ask someone for a ride. I suspect Jade is like me, so it is entirely reasonable that it did not register what Ruby was upset about.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:52:59 PM by TurtleDove »

TootsNYC

  • A Pillar of the Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 30506
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2013, 12:31:48 PM »
I will say that in the original dispute, Ruby goofed as well.

She asked "well in advance," per the OP:
Quote
She asked Jade well in advance

Then a week before, she started trying to confirm. If I hadn't heard back by day 3 of that week, I'd be making other plans; I'd have been contacting my other friend to say, "If this falls through, can I stay with you instead?"

Ruby let the silence go on too long without deciding that it was not a solid option for her any longer.

Doesn't mean Jade didn't screw up too.

As for the OP, I think were I her, I would do this:

As for what the OP should do, I think she should tell Ruby that she won't actively seek out Jade to tell her why Ruby isn't speaking to her. But if Jade asks the OP directly, the OP will tell her the truth.

But "tell her the truth" means just say, "Apparently it stems from Ruby's trip to your city in May. I don't know all the details, but that's what it is. And now I don't want to talk about it any more, because I don't want to be in the middle of it."



Nah, I just changed my mind. After I typed that all out and hit "submit," I thought, "what would be the next sentence from Jade? Yep, I'd be in the middle of it."

I'd just resign myself to the fact that I have two separate friends now, and never mention one to the other.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 12:33:51 PM by TootsNYC »

Two Ravens

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2297
  • One for sorrow, Two for mirth...
Re: Why isn't she speaking to me?
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2013, 12:38:36 PM »
I'm in the minority here, but I don't see any harm in OP letting Jade know why Ruby is upset. I don't see it as "being caught in the middle" or "it's none of my business" as much as it is helping two of my friends resolve a communication issue.

I'm with you. I would have zero problem letting Jade know what the deal was with Ruby.

I think Jade's big failing here was not immediately responding to Ruby's emails. Did she not get them? (Was she traveling at the time?) Or was she afraid of delivering bad news?