Author Topic: You are not the captain of this team - I am.  (Read 14249 times)

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AzaleaBloom

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You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« on: December 17, 2013, 02:53:22 PM »
I need an EH-approved way of saying the subject heading to a person who is making me hate the sport I play for fun.

Background:

I captain a rec-level sports team.  I took over the team when the previous captain had to quit playing.  Another member of the team is more or less my co-captain, and has been since I took over two years ago.  On weeks where I can't be there, "James" takes care of the captain duties.  We have no problem with this arrangement, and it has worked well.

When a player moved and had to quit, we asked "Luke" to join the team.  Since he joined, he has decided that he is in charge, and has undermined me on several occasions.  For example, I can say in an e-mail that I need everyone there and ready to play at 7:30.  He'll respond by saying that everyone needs to be there at 7:15.  If James gives a certain line-up, he'll respond by telling everyone to do something else.  Luke also has a tendency to talk to me like I'm an overly emotional five year old - which is pretty much the surest way to get me to snap.  I nearly bit through my tongue last game.


His most recent stunt is one that could get us in trouble with the league and cause us to have to forfeit games.  James and I are in full agreement that we are only to call on subs - and even then, only subs we have on our roster - when we are missing players.  One of the rules of the league is that all players have to be on the roster, and using non-rostered subs, if caught, can lead to forfeiture of games.  In the past, we have had issues with other teammates wanting to bring in subs so we can have extra players.  However, James and I both strongly feel that top priority should be given to those who actually paid to play, and subs are only in situtations where they are needed.  On this week's game reminder e-mail, there was one person who said she most likely wouldn't be there, leaving us with exactly enough people to play.  Luke responded by saying that he could get someone else there so we could have extra players there that night.  Since he does not have contact with our regular subs, this would be someone non-roster - as well as someone who hasn't paid and would be taking playing time away from those of us who did.

While I am fine with shutting this down - I have made it very clear that we don't need a sub - it's a prime example of how Luke has steamrolled over James and myself.  Since I'm the official captain of record, it is my job to deal with the situation.  Any e-hell approved suggestions on how I can politely tell him "Shut up, play ball, and talk to either myself or James after the game/e-mail us if you have any questions or suggestions"?

Zizi-K

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 03:16:35 PM »
How about some version of "That will not be possible."?

I assume this is over email? A reply like this could work:

Dear Luke (and all),

The policy of the club is very clear that using any non-roster subs will cause us to forfeit the game. As co-captains of the team, and those responsible for administering and keeping track of these rules, Luke and I have decided not to test the limits, so off-roster subs will not be allowed. Please do not invite any friends to come and play, as they will just be disappointed when they arrive and are not able to play.

Best,
AzaleaBloom

To deal with Luke's butting-in to other decisions, a private word with you, James and Luke would suffice, the message being - back off. If you want to captain a team, start one yourself.

lmyrs

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 03:19:02 PM »
I think it's multi-part.

First you have to correct Luke immediately and publicly every time he tries to undermine you. If you send out an email that says the team needs to arrive at 7:30 and he sends one out that says 7:15, just Reply All to his email and say, "7:30 is fine. No need to be there sooner."

If James sets the line up and Luke says something else, immediately say, "No, Luke, James has Jodi playing third base, not first. Jodi, you're on first."

And, when he starts talking down to you, roll your eyes and walk away.

If Luke wants to be in charge of his own team, he can go create his own team. This kind of behaviour can quickly become toxic on a for-fun recreational team. I've been there.

Then, after a few public corrections, if Luke continues, I'd pull him aside after a game or at another time and say, "Luke, you need to go along with what James and I say. If you want to run your own team, you're free to create one. But. this isn't your team and if you're unhappy with how we do things, you'll need to go to a different team." It may be worthwhile to have James with you for the conversation if at all possible to show it's a team decision (captains' decision) and not you being and over-emotional four year old.

Outdoor Girl

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 03:20:03 PM »
How about some version of "That will not be possible."?

I assume this is over email? A reply like this could work:

Dear Luke (and all),

The policy of the club is very clear that using any non-roster subs will cause us to forfeit the game. As co-captains of the team, and those responsible for administering and keeping track of these rules, Luke James and I have decided not to test the limits, so off-roster subs will not be allowed. Please do not invite any friends to come and play, as they will just be disappointed when they arrive and are not able to play.

Best,
AzaleaBloom

To deal with Luke's butting-in to other decisions, a private word with you, James and Luke would suffice, the message being - back off. If you want to captain a team, start one yourself.

One name change there and I agree with this, including a little talk with Luke, using the bolded wording.  Sounds like this guy needs the direct approach.
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SamiHami

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 03:26:09 PM »
I think you and James need to speak with Luke together. Sit him down and point out specific instances, as you have here, where he has overstepped. And then clearly and concisely tell him that as captains, those decisions are for you and James to make, not him. If he tries to argue (and he will) point out that this is not a discussion; this is simply you and James informing him of the way things run on this team and that he is not to do it again.

Then, if he does (and he will, to test the boundaries) I suggest suspsending him for a couple of games until he understands that he is not the captain.

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Hmmmmm

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 03:27:21 PM »
I think it's multi-part.

First you have to correct Luke immediately and publicly every time he tries to undermine you. If you send out an email that says the team needs to arrive at 7:30 and he sends one out that says 7:15, just Reply All to his email and say, "7:30 is fine. No need to be there sooner."

If James sets the line up and Luke says something else, immediately say, "No, Luke, James has Jodi playing third base, not first. Jodi, you're on first."

And, when he starts talking down to you, roll your eyes and walk away.

If Luke wants to be in charge of his own team, he can go create his own team. This kind of behaviour can quickly become toxic on a for-fun recreational team. I've been there.

Then, after a few public corrections, if Luke continues, I'd pull him aside after a game or at another time and say, "Luke, you need to go along with what James and I say. If you want to run your own team, you're free to create one. But. this isn't your team and if you're unhappy with how we do things, you'll need to go to a different team." It may be worthwhile to have James with you for the conversation if at all possible to show it's a team decision (captains' decision) and not you being and over-emotional four year old.

All of this. Call him out public ally. "Luke, only James or I set the line up or schedule. If you are unhappy with this, I understand if you choose to leave the team"

tinkytinky

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 03:31:03 PM »
Wow!  :o

I think you have to shut him down every. single. time. he does this. if its an email changing the time, reply to all: Sorry, no. The official practice time is 7:30. No need to be standing around for 15 minutes.
If its an email about the lineup reply to all: No the original lineup is the one we will use. No need for the confusion.
If its a conversation about subs: No need to get someone else. League rules state that the subs have to be on the roster. I have that list, and they have paid to be a sub. If we need someone else, I will handle it.

every. single. time.

You may even have to email him seperately so that HE can't just reply to all. Make him go thru the effort of putting in everyones email address. You may also be proactive and send a team email to that states that the only official changes being made will come from you and/or James. If they have questions or are getting emails changing everything, they should contact you.

You may need to look at the requirements of putting him on the sub list, and get a different player for the team.

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SamiHami

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 03:45:40 PM »
Wow!  :o

I think you have to shut him down every. single. time. he does this. if its an email changing the time, reply to all: Sorry, no. The official practice time is 7:30. No need to be standing around for 15 minutes.
If its an email about the lineup reply to all: No the original lineup is the one we will use. No need for the confusion.
If its a conversation about subs: No need to get someone else. League rules state that the subs have to be on the roster. I have that list, and they have paid to be a sub. If we need someone else, as captain I will handle it.

every. single. time.

You may even have to email him seperately so that HE can't just reply to all. Make him go thru the effort of putting in everyones email address. You may also be proactive and send a team email to that states that the only official changes being made will come from you and/or James. If they have questions or are getting emails changing everything, they should contact you.

You may need to look at the requirements of putting him on the sub list, and get a different player for the team.

I like what you've said here, and modified it slightly. I don't think it's necessary to explain to Luke why he can't bring in a sub. He just needs to know that he cannot do it. And the idea of sending an email to the entire team, including Luke, explaining that the only changes will come directly from the captains, is excellent. It may help drive the point home that he is not one of the captains.

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MrTango

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 03:46:33 PM »
I'd send him an email (and copy James):

"Luke,

There seems to be a misconception that needs to be cleared up: I am the Captain of this team.  James is my backup.  If and when I determine that substitues are needed for a game, I will make the arrangements or ask James to do so.

Also, as Captain of this team, it is my responsibility to determine the times players need to arrive for events and our line-ups for those events.  In the event that I am unable to personally attend these events, I delegate those responsibilities to James.

If you are unable to accept these terms, then I encourage you to seek out another team that is better suited to you.  Any further attempts to undermine my or James' decisions made in our roles as Co-Captains of this team will result in your immediate removal from the team.

Regards,
AzaleaBloom"

It's not impolite to be very direct.  Also, I'd suggest considering this note to be his one and only warning.  The next time he steps out of line, he's gone.

tinkytinky

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 04:15:57 PM »
Wow!  :o

I think you have to shut him down every. single. time. he does this. if its an email changing the time, reply to all: Sorry, no. The official practice time is 7:30. No need to be standing around for 15 minutes.
If its an email about the lineup reply to all: No the original lineup is the one we will use. No need for the confusion.
If its a conversation about subs: No need to get someone else. League rules state that the subs have to be on the roster. I have that list, and they have paid to be a sub. If we need someone else, as captain I will handle it.

every. single. time.

You may even have to email him seperately so that HE can't just reply to all. Make him go thru the effort of putting in everyones email address. You may also be proactive and send a team email to that states that the only official changes being made will come from you and/or James. If they have questions or are getting emails changing everything, they should contact you.

You may need to look at the requirements of putting him on the sub list, and get a different player for the team.

I like what you've said here, and modified it slightly. I don't think it's necessary to explain to Luke why he can't bring in a sub. He just needs to know that he cannot do it. And the idea of sending an email to the entire team, including Luke, explaining that the only changes will come directly from the captains, is excellent. It may help drive the point home that he is not one of the captains.

Thank you, SamiHami! I agree you don't need to explain why. (In fact I actually had a similar response written out!)

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blarg314

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 07:28:28 PM »

I think you need a three-pronged approach.

The first is to sit him down (along with James) and tell him directly that he is not to call in subs, and he is not to try to interfere with your coaching arrangements.

The second is to smack him down, politely, but publicly, every single time he does this. He sends an email, you send a group email saying that no, the practice time is 7:30. He tries to change the lineup, you say "No, Luke, the lineup is XXX".

The third is to not explain or defend your decisions at the time. You can give a brief explanation of rules, etc, but don't get sucked into arguments about which player is better, or why 7:30.

If these methods don't work, you may need to see whether you can kick him off the team - he's interfering with the arrangements of the team, and he's doing things as if he were captain that could get the whole team in trouble.

kckgirl

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 07:43:57 PM »
As a last resort, you may also want to change to an email group (Yahoo, Google, something like that) and make it announcements only. The members would receive the information they need and could email you and James as administrators of the group, but they wouldn't be able to reply to all.
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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 07:54:15 PM »
I'd send him an email (and copy James):

"Luke,

There seems to be a misconception that needs to be cleared up: I am the Captain of this team.  James is my backup.  If and when I determine that substitues are needed for a game, I will make the arrangements or ask James to do so.

Also, as Captain of this team, it is my responsibility to determine the times players need to arrive for events and our line-ups for those events.  In the event that I am unable to personally attend these events, I delegate those responsibilities to James.

If you are unable to accept these terms, then I encourage you to seek out another team that is better suited to you.  Any further attempts to undermine my or James' decisions made in our roles as Co-Captains of this team will result in your immediate removal from the team.

Regards,
AzaleaBloom"

It's not impolite to be very direct.  Also, I'd suggest considering this note to be his one and only warning.  The next time he steps out of line, he's gone.
First start using BCC so he can't reply to all and send out a reminder that NO unregistered subs will be allowed to play at all.


Then do this except tell him if he puts a toe over the line again he is going to be kicked off the team. Don't accept him on the team again after this season is over.

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 09:36:08 PM »
I think it's multi-part.

First you have to correct Luke immediately and publicly every time he tries to undermine you. If you send out an email that says the team needs to arrive at 7:30 and he sends one out that says 7:15, just Reply All to his email and say, "7:30 is fine. No need to be there sooner."

If James sets the line up and Luke says something else, immediately say, "No, Luke, James has Jodi playing third base, not first. Jodi, you're on first."

And, when he starts talking down to you, roll your eyes and walk away.

If Luke wants to be in charge of his own team, he can go create his own team. This kind of behaviour can quickly become toxic on a for-fun recreational team. I've been there.

Then, after a few public corrections, if Luke continues, I'd pull him aside after a game or at another time and say, "Luke, you need to go along with what James and I say. If you want to run your own team, you're free to create one. But. this isn't your team and if you're unhappy with how we do things, you'll need to go to a different team." It may be worthwhile to have James with you for the conversation if at all possible to show it's a team decision (captains' decision) and not you being and over-emotional four year old.

I agree with this entire post.

This is complete speculation, but I wonder if Luke thinks that "girls can't be good sports captains"? (I assume you're a woman, OP) hence, he (as "the man") has no compunction in undermining your authority?

Ceallach

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 09:46:59 PM »
I agree with the posters who say shut him down everytime.   If he is saying something wrong, send out a correction and be clear and firm in what you say.   That way people will know who has the authority.

Do you think that he is being deliberately rude, or is it more that he is over-enthusiastic and trying to be helpful?   Because I could see the latter being possible too in which case you can hopefully reign him in.   If it's the former and he is just a jerk who things he's in charge then I doubt anything will change his behaviour!
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