Author Topic: You are not the captain of this team - I am.  (Read 14256 times)

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Mergatroyd

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2013, 09:03:07 PM »
I'd like to know how this turns out!

kherbert05

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2013, 09:06:16 PM »
I captain a number of sports teams, I once sent the following email to my team and the "hijacking captain" CC to everyone (not BCC either, clear to everyone so they could hit reply all) 

I am captain of this team, I put it together.  If you would like another captain please say so and I will leave and put another team together.  Otherwise, the information I send you is the information this team will go with.

Responses were along the lines of oh, no Redneck we want you, we were confused by the conflicting instructions so from now on we will listen to you and ONLY YOU.

I have done this for over 20 years and quite frankly no one else wants the thankless payment free job.  I don't bring on players that aren't a good personality fit, I don't care how darn good they are either!


I LOVE this. If this wouldn't be appropriate for the OP for some reason, she and her back up need to have a come to Jesus meeting with Luke that gives him 3 options


1. Quit now
2. Stay with the team and behave
3. Stay with the team claiming to behave, but keep up the same behavior resulting in him being kicked off the team with a notice to the league that he is being kicked off the team due to unsportsmanlike behavior.


In my book being disrespectful to the captain/coach, and attempting to break rules is unsportsmanlike - and his behavior on the field ordering teammates around tops the cake.
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AzaleaBloom

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2014, 09:33:16 PM »
So, tonight, everything blew up.  I think I may have gotten through to Luke, but we will see what happens.

I arrived early, and warmed up with some teammates.  Luke showed up with a friend.  When we were approaching game time and were still a player short, Luke announced that his friend would play.  Before I could say anything, another teammate showed up and the subject was dropped.  So, I decided not to argue it at that point - it was game time - and we continued on.

The first two games went fine.  Then came game three.  We haven't played in three weeks, and it showed.  Luke started ripping into one member of the team in particular.  Joseph is the oldest person on the team, and has been there the longest.  He is also more than capable of taking care of himself.  He turned around and told Luke that he knew how to play and that he could knock it off.  Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.  Several plays later, Luke came back out, putting Joseph in.  Things went fine, Joseph had another bad hit, and Luke literally ran onto the court to pull Joseph out.  He refused, and I backed him up.  Later in the game, I quickly asked Joseph if he would be okay with subbing in Luke for the last few points, and he agreed.  So, I called for the sub, Luke came in - and proceeded to literally shove me out of the way to get to a ball.

So, after the game, I gave him an earful.  He refused to admit he was wrong for the shoving.  However, he did agree that yes, I am the captain, and that means he is to not show up with unrostered subs without my permission.  I also told him that he needed to knock off the nagging and the harping during the game - we all know how to play, and all he is doing is creating a distraction.  We compromised that those who want extra help are welcome to show up early - but he also needs to understand that several players are coming straight from work and getting there early is next to impossible.

I did tell him that I do enjoy playing with him - which is true - and that I like having him on the team, but he needs to tone it down.

We'll see what comes of it.  I wasn't always nice during the whole confrontation, but based on what I know about the guy, I think it's how it needed to be said. 

TootsNYC

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2014, 10:44:28 PM »
Yeah, if he's going to sub for someone without saying anything to that person or the captain, and he's going to physically shove you, you're going to need to clock him on the head pretty hard with that clue-by-four.

Thanks for the update--I'm so glad to hear more of this. I think you've got a problem that has a lot of similarities to stuff other people go through (I recognize some work situations in your story).


Honestly, I think you should just touch base quietly with a few people, to manage the uproar on the team, and then kick him out. Be prepared--if he does this again, you need to.


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Luke announced that his friend would play.  Before I could say anything, another teammate showed up and the subject was dropped.

I don't think *you* should have dropped the subject. I think you should have gone directly to Luke and said to him (not announcing to everyone, just say directly to him), "Luke, you are not the captain of this team, and you are not to recruit substitutes. In addition to the whole 'chain of command' thing, and the whole 'other people have been paying team members for a long time' thing, you don't seem to be aware of the league rules. We will be punished if we use an unrostered substitute. Don't do that again."

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Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.
   If you'd stepped in and interfered with this--even if it WAS awkward at the time--you'd probably have prevented this:

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Things went fine, Joseph had another bad hit, and Luke literally ran onto the court to pull Joseph out.  He refused, and I backed him up.  Later in the game, I quickly asked Joseph if he would be okay with subbing in Luke for the last few points, and he agreed.  So, I called for the sub, Luke came in - and proceeded to literally shove me out of the way to get to a ball.

It's so easy for me to Monday-morning quarterback, and I don't mean to. It's hard to act on the spot. But I just want to encourage you--and any other people who might need it--to be confrontational with Luke. It's the only thing that will work, and other people on the team need you to do this.

One thing that happens is, if -you- create a power vacuum (which you have, actually, by not directly addressing these things, and maybe by not announcing early enough what your plan is for rostering enough players--I have created exactly such a power vacuum by keeping my thoughts to myself, or by not being proactive enough), people like Luke will try to fill that vacuum.


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We compromised that those who want extra help are welcome to show up early but he also needs to understand that several players are coming straight from work and getting there early is next to impossible.
How is that a compromise? You may have just reinforced his idea that he's the one who gets to decide whether things are acceptable.

This is a great start, but I have this feeling you're going to need to be even tougher, and more confrontational "in the moment."

Don't be afraid, going forward to be firm, stern, and really, really bossy.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 10:46:12 PM by TootsNYC »

Onyx_TKD

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2014, 11:15:52 PM »
Quote
We compromised that those who want extra help are welcome to show up early but he also needs to understand that several players are coming straight from work and getting there early is next to impossible.
How is that a compromise? You may have just reinforced his idea that he's the one who gets to decide whether things are acceptable.

I think the compromise is that Luke gets an officially sanctioned time to coach players who want his help, but (a) he only gets to coach those who actively seek his help and (b) he has to do it outside of official practice or games. Once actual practice or game time starts, he has to keep his critiques to himself and not bother players who aren't up to his personal standards. He doesn't get to decide who needs to play better; he only gets to help those who decide on their own that they want to improve and who seek him out.

If Luke is genuinely good at the sport and if he complies with the limits set by the team captains, I think it could actually be a very good solution. Players who want some extra help can get it. Players who just want to play don't have to put up with Luke's critiques. Luke has an outlet to share his expertise without harassing other players or dealing with league administrative rules. The captains get to turn Luke's enthusiasm into a team asset rather than a team liability. Everyone wins, if Luke can manage to behave himself.

TootsNYC

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2014, 11:52:10 PM »
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

LeveeWoman

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2014, 11:59:17 PM »
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

Especially that bit about the shoving AzaleaBloom!

Katana_Geldar

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2014, 02:05:37 AM »
Azalea, have you considered how then other team members are being affected by Luke? Your league is a recreational one, right? If I was on your team, I'd consider approaching you and dating having Luke there makes it less fun.

If that were me, if there's even a hint at another display like that Luke would be off the team, and if that happened the middle of the game I'd bench him. Luke is one player, one player that is obviously causing problems. You need to think about the entire team.

Winterlight

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2014, 09:25:44 AM »
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

Have to agree.

And honestly, if I were on your team, I'd be looking at leaving. Luke would be too much stress for what's supposed to be recreation.
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English1

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2014, 09:52:57 AM »
My OH could be a Luke if he were that way inclined. He plays in a team for a sport he used to play as a semi-pro, and he is their best player. However, he accepts the others' limitations (it's a vets team, one of the players is aged over 60!) and works with the Manager, not against him. The manager often gets him to do team talks and drill sessions and he is sort of unofficial captain on the pitch. He pushes those with ability quite hard when they make mistakes, but when a less able player makes a mistake he'll tell them 'great effort, try again'. He certainly doesn't humiliate lesser players in the way Luke did. For him, although he'd love to be winning more often, it's now a recreational thing. He has been asked to join other more successful teams, but he sticks with his own team. He would never contradict the manager and when the manager is doing the half time talk and some players always start losing interest/chatting, he'll tell them to be quiet and pay attention to 'Manager'.

It sounds to me as if Luke is not a good fit for your team. He is playing to win, whereas for other longer term members, it's played for recreation (and winning is a bonus). If Luke is a good player, he may well be frustrated at the skill levels of others and not able to accept that some people's abilities will never meet his ambitions. He'll get increasingly frustrated, and other team members will get increasingly discouraged. To be honest, I'd suggest he finds a team that is a better fit for him. Talented players that want to take it very seriously and competitively need to be in a team full of people like that or it causes trouble.

wolfie

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2014, 10:05:02 AM »
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

Have to agree.

And honestly, if I were on your team, I'd be looking at leaving. Luke would be too much stress for what's supposed to be recreation.

I would be doing the same thing. Not sure how it works exactly, since I don't play sports, but if i paid for the season then I would play until the end of it and then next season either not sign up or sign up for a different team.

SamiHami

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2014, 10:13:58 AM »
I think after the shoving incident ---  especially since he refused to understand that was wrong  ---  at the bare minimum I would suspend him for a game or two. That is not showing good sportsmanship by any stretch of the imagination. I really think you are being far too easy on this guy. As others have said, this is supposed to be for recreation and he is introducing far too much drama.

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artk2002

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2014, 10:28:38 AM »
Add me to the list of people who would be leaving your team. I'm sorry, but your 'compromise' is just the camel's nose under the edge of the tent. He's repeatedly broken (or tried to break) the rules. He attempted to do a substitution that wasn't wanted. Finally, he shoved you. That by itself should earn him the opportunity to join a different team, or to form his own.

I'm sure that he's played on other teams before. I'd suggest doing some research and finding out if he's done this to them. I think that you'll find that this is a pattern -- one that can result in the team breaking up.
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AzaleaBloom

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2014, 10:29:50 AM »
The reason I did not call him out for certain things - such as bringing someone to play - is because the game was either starting or in progress.  The ref we had last night is very strict about the rules, and gave us one warning about delay of game when I had to call him out for a certain behavior.  Had he actually called us for the delay, we would have lost points and possibly faced other penalties. 

As far as allowing the pre-game coaching sessions, the reason is two-fold - one, if there are those who genuinally want to work with him, they can do so.  Two, if no one shows up, then it will make it clear to him - I get the impression he doesn't belive what he doesn't see - that the teammates don't want it.  I know at one time there were teammates who did appreciate this, and if that is still the case, then more power to them.  This was much less of a problem then the game time coaching - the bigger problem was the "No, you need to be here at x time" situation.  It's kind of a "what you do with your free time" sort of thing, if that makes sense.

I spoke with Joseph and Joshua after the game, and we discussed the whole situation.  The two of them had played drop-in during the holiday break, and they were telling me that Luke showed up later on and jumped in on their team.  (as is expected in the drop-in sessions.)  They said that he pulled the coaching crap on the drop-in team as well, and that the playing level dropped drastically when he started doing that.

At this point, I know half of the team - Joseph, Joshua and myself - are ready to boot Luke off the team.  If Luke leaves, he will bring "Linda" with him (a former teammate of his from his old team) and I suspect "Claire" will leave also.  (she is good friends with Luke's fiancee)  I know James has been frustrated with him, but I also think he worries about losing half the team.

Okay, that was confusing.  To sum up:  Half of the team wants him off.  Half of the team will want him to stay.  If I step up and boot him off, I need to be ready to form a new team.  Next week is the final week of the season, then there is a short break.  I can start recruiting then if it comes down to it.   

lmyrs

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2014, 04:07:57 PM »
I was on a team with a Luke and, I quit. And so did a bunch of other people. And the team folded and Luke put together a new team with some of the old teammates and like-minded people. I had created a new team by the and we were all a lot happier. In other words, you may lose half your team if you boot him but you may lose half your team if you don't. So decide which team you'd rather be on and act accordingly.