Author Topic: You are not the captain of this team - I am.  (Read 14764 times)

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Lynn2000

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2014, 04:39:34 PM »
lmyrs has a good point. Do you want to be on a team with Luke and people who reinforce his rude behavior, or on a team with people who respect your authority and contribute to a good vibe? Because I feel like that is what it's coming down to.  :-\

I don't know anything about sports. But the impression I get is that Luke is allowed to trample all over the rules, treat other players badly, and undermine the coaches and I'm not seeing any consequences for it. Compromise? That just tells Luke his opinion has weight, that he has power in this situation. I'm sure recruiting reliable players is hard, but there are so many people in the world, what does Luke bring to this team that is so wonderful he can't be kicked out? It's almost like working in an office with the disagreeable boss's son who can't be fired, where the best the manager can hope for is blunting him. That's not an office where I would want to work, and given that this is totally voluntary and recreational, I wouldn't blame others for dropping out/not returning next season due to Luke.

Maybe the team would benefit from some more officially-listed regular players anyway. For example, when Luke showed up at the game with an unregistered friend he hoped could play, for the second time in this thread, I think one would be justified in telling Luke that neither his friend nor he were going to play, because he has been repeatedly reminded of this rule. But, it seems like you had only just enough people to play--so if Luke had been kicked out of the game before it started, no one would have been able to play. And if that's the case, that's a situation where he has the power. Even if you aren't going to kick Luke off the team entirely, I think you need a more comfortable margin of error so he can't hold the game hostage like that.
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VorFemme

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2014, 05:12:58 PM »
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.
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Outdoor Girl

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2014, 06:21:17 PM »
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.

I agree.  Better to lose players who want to go with Luke and rebuild a team with like minded members.
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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2014, 06:54:07 PM »
And when you are building your team for next season remember: The wants and needs of one person should not outweigh the wants and needs of the group as a whole. 

TootsNYC

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2014, 08:46:09 PM »
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.

I would suggest this as well.

Luke does have a leader's instincts--so encourage him to follow them by forming his own team. Start suggesting it, even if it's admiringly.

And start recruiting. Maybe even mention that you have a sneaking suspicion that Luke will want to branch out on his own, so you want to fill your roster with people who'll enjoy playing.

artk2002

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2014, 09:06:55 PM »
Luke does have a leader's instincts ...

I disagree, very strongly. Someone with a leader's instincts knows to respect other leaders and knows when they should be following. Luke has an ego, not leadership potential. A leader doesn't ignore the rules, despite being reminded of them repeatedly. A leader doesn't pull a player arbitrarily. A leader doesn't shove someone else out of the way in their rush to show how great they are.
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Katana_Geldar

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2014, 09:15:27 PM »
I'd personally like to watch how Luke would go running his own team, to be honest. I can't see it going well.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2014, 09:19:09 PM »
I agree that Luke needs to leave the team, or it's likely that other team members will...

I was once in Joseph's position. It was mixed softball - a friendly league. I was playing second base and dropped a catch. The guy playing left field decided that wasn't good enough. He came running up, and ordered me to swap positions with him. (He basically snapped "You're playing outfield!"). Because the game was in play, I had no option but to go to left field. To make matters worse, the team captain saw all this, but never said a thing. In fairness, the other guy was a much stronger player than me. Nonetheless, the incident really affected my enjoyment of the game, and my view of the team.

blarg314

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2014, 09:32:29 PM »
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.

I think that's the best approach.  Wait until the last game, and tell Luke that he's not welcome back the following season, because of his refusal to learn or follow the rules of the game, and his boorish behaviour towards other people.

If most of the people wanted Luke to stay, I would personally consider resigning as Captain and letting Luke take over - you can't lead people who don't want you in charge. But as it's a bit of a split, I'd side with the people who are behaving politely, rather than rewarding the bullies.

Margo

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2014, 11:58:08 AM »
It sounds as though part of the difficulty with addressing this with Luke is that tere isn't really time, or a convenient moment, to have that conversation with him at games. For that reason, I would do an e-mail to him, cc'd to the other team-members, in the sorts of terms which have bee nsugegsted above - e.g. telling (not asking) him not to send out notifications about timings / lines ups / subs, reminfing him that you as captain (or in your absence, James as deputy)  will determine whether subs are needed, and that during games neither he does not have the authority to make substitutions unless you have explicitly  given him that authority for that particular game, and that you expect him to accept the direct he is given by the team captain, or by whomever you have authorised for a particular game, whether he agrees with it or not.

I would then add in that he is clearly very into the game and obviously feels ready to lead a team so if he does not feel that he can keep to the rules of your team, you will compeltely understand  if he choses to leave to set up his own team.

I would speciafically ask him to confirm to you whether he wishes to remain in you team, in which case he will need to also confirm that he understands and will keep to the ground rules which have been set out, or whether he wishes to leave, in which case you wish him well.

I would be inclined to add that if you don't hear back from him by [date] with confirmation that he is willing to paly by the team rules, that you will presume he is not staying and will plan  for next season accordingly.

This means that if he wants to stay, he has to explicitly acknowledge your rules and confirm he will stick to them.

I would also be inclined to make it a condition of his staying that he apologises, publically , to you and to Joseph for his behaviour at the last game, but you may wish to raise that in a separate, private email to him only (although I would cc James as your deputy)

I think you do need to take the bull by the horns and either kick him out or give him an ultimatum and hold him to it. I can see why James is worries about losing half the team, but I think that is going to happen either way. Either Luke goes, with his pals, or other members of the team will go rather than have to put up with him.  But if you give him a choice, and are totally open and very, very clear about the options, then if he stays, the rest of the team can feel confident that you are going to keep him under control, and are more likely to be willing to stay, and if he goes, the others can see that you're willing to take tough decisions for the good of the team and I suspect that word of mouth may mean you find new people to replace those who go, more easily than you might expect.

RooRoo

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2014, 11:33:21 PM »
I'm wondering, are there team members who were there in the beginning, but haven't been showing up lately?

That is the way I have handled Luke types of thing in the past: I just disappear. If I feel unwanted or unnecessary, I'm gone. (Which I would feel if I was treated like Joseph was.) If I was important to the team, the leader would have said or done something, right? (And, yes, that's passive-aggressive. I'm working on it.) If people have disappeared from your team, Luke is the reason.

I like Margo's suggestion, though I think it's a last resort. But you do, right now, have to stop Luke's interference.

"My friend can sub!"
"No, he can't. That's the rule." (No explaining, or soothing him.)

"Joseph, I'm taking over."
"Luke, I'll make a substitution if we need one." No smile. (Joseph really feels appreciated now!)

"Everybody show up half an hour early!"
"Luke, that's my decision to make. If you want to volunteer to give extra coaching, you can come early and work with anyone who wants to."

Free gratis advice from Ms. Do-as-I-say-not-what-I-do! (Though I'm working on it.)
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Queen of Clubs

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2014, 01:01:15 PM »
As others have said, I'd kick Luke out once the season is over.  At this point, half the team might walk with him.  If you let the situation continue, the team will be full of Luke's friends and subs he's brought in when the other, non-Luke-friend people have quit.

Right now, you'll be looking for people to fill maybe half a team; later, you'll lose your entire team to Luke and run the risk of not being able to build a whole team if people who quit have talked about how Luke took over the team and you, as Captain, didn't seem able to stop him.  If I were one of those people, I'd be wary of joining another team you captain since you weren't able to stop Luke from taking over your other one.

TootsNYC

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #57 on: January 11, 2014, 01:05:37 PM »
I'm wondering, are there team members who were there in the beginning, but haven't been showing up lately?


That's a good question--especially since at your last game, you nearly had to forfeit because you didn't have enough people at first.

And if people are coming late, it may be because they don't feel as invested; why hurry to get to a place that makes you uncomfortable when it's supposed to be fun?

If you have members like that, you might touch base with them in a general way, and ask what they want in next year's team.

Possum

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2014, 03:36:53 PM »
Luke started ripping into one member of the team in particular.  Joseph is the oldest person on the team, and has been there the longest.  He is also more than capable of taking care of himself.  He turned around and told Luke that he knew how to play and that he could knock it off.
Even if Joseph can take care of himself, this is where you, as team captain, need to step in.  You need to make sure Luke knows that such behavior is *not* acceptable--and the team needs to see you take that stance.  They all know what Luke's been up to, and they need to know you're going to be proactive about it.
Quote
Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.
And here's where you absolutely should've stepped in.  He shouldn't have been able to make that call once, let alone numerous times.  But you didn't, and by letting Luke run the show the rest of the game, you ceded control to him--and the team saw it.

The first time he physically handled a teammate, you should've benched him.  There shouldn't have been a second time.

I'm sorry if I'm blunt, but you need the push here.  This has been going on so long, that Luke knows he can retain control if he just deals with you once in a while (probably sees it as "putting up with" you) and waits it out.  Don't worry about being nice anymore.  He's shown that nice does not work with him.  That doesn't mean you have to be mean, but you can be blunt. 

Don't couch what you say with compliments, don't get detailed.  Don't let him tie you up in minutiae about how this person played (he will), or about how that one was late (he will), or why he does the things he does (he will).  You already knows he thinks he can do no wrong, so he's going to try and argue his side if you let him.

Instead, cut to the core and only the core, and tell him like it is.

"Luke, I'm captain.  You are not.  We've talked about this before, but you keep doing it, and tonight, you were way over the line.  You've got no authority to say when people should show up, you're completely wrong to be making calls about who will play, when they will, and you know why.  Most of all, tonight, you were utterly out of line to physically handle your teammates.  I'm done.  I'm pulling you for the next three games, and after that, if you choose to return, it'll be to play my way--the way this team played long before you arrived.  If you can't do that, there's plenty of other teams in the league."

When you say it, pull him aside if you want, but don't worry about doing this where no one else will hear.  Your team needs to know you're doing something about this, and that you'll stand solid on it.  Whatever you do, don't be apologetic to Luke.  Don't express your sadness at having to do that.  He will see that as weakness, as a foothold. 

He will try to make this out to be your fault to some degree--or Joseph's, or someone else's.  He'll try to deflect, to muddy the waters.  Do not let him redirect.  Hell, just don't even engage.  It's no longer about him.  It's about fixing this fracture in your team--in this microcommunity. 

Just repeat "this discussion is over" and walk away.

It might feel like what you're doing is rude--and maybe it is, rude to him.  But to not end this is being rude to everyone else on the team, and enabling Luke to keep being ruder.  Your team will probably be glad to witness you firmly planting a foot down.

If you don't think you can do it in person, do it in mail.  One on one, CC'ing the directly affected--and then write your team.  "Team, I know there's been problems with Luke.  I'd be discreet and say 'a player,' but I think we're all aware.  This past game, he physically handled two players, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've given him an ultimatum about that and his other behaviors, and a three-game suspension.  If you want to dispute it, come to me.  After those three games, he's free to return, so long as he'll do it on our terms.  Any further bullying from him will cause him to be removed from the team.

"I'm sorry it's gone on this long.  I like to believe in the best in everyone, but sometimes, bullies just won't respond like normal folk.  Thank you for hanging in there, and I'm sorry to everyone who's been negatively impacted by him.  As your captain, I'll do my best to make sure that this is the last of it.  If you have questions or suggestions, I'm here.

"Thanks.  Now, what's up for the end-of-season party?"

Firm up that spine!  You need to shore it up with steel, even if temporarily.  Otherwise, plan on half of your team being gone next season, filled with Luke's picks, and your captainship being reduced to nothing but an emeritus position as he takes over.

More power to you.  You can do this.

Alpacas

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2014, 09:19:15 PM »
Luke started ripping into one member of the team in particular.  Joseph is the oldest person on the team, and has been there the longest.  He is also more than capable of taking care of himself.  He turned around and told Luke that he knew how to play and that he could knock it off.
Even if Joseph can take care of himself, this is where you, as team captain, need to step in.  You need to make sure Luke knows that such behavior is *not* acceptable--and the team needs to see you take that stance.  They all know what Luke's been up to, and they need to know you're going to be proactive about it.
Quote
Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.
And here's where you absolutely should've stepped in.  He shouldn't have been able to make that call once, let alone numerous times.  But you didn't, and by letting Luke run the show the rest of the game, you ceded control to him--and the team saw it.

The first time he physically handled a teammate, you should've benched him.  There shouldn't have been a second time.

I'm sorry if I'm blunt, but you need the push here.  This has been going on so long, that Luke knows he can retain control if he just deals with you once in a while (probably sees it as "putting up with" you) and waits it out.  Don't worry about being nice anymore.  He's shown that nice does not work with him.  That doesn't mean you have to be mean, but you can be blunt. 

Don't couch what you say with compliments, don't get detailed.  Don't let him tie you up in minutiae about how this person played (he will), or about how that one was late (he will), or why he does the things he does (he will).  You already knows he thinks he can do no wrong, so he's going to try and argue his side if you let him.

Instead, cut to the core and only the core, and tell him like it is.

"Luke, I'm captain.  You are not.  We've talked about this before, but you keep doing it, and tonight, you were way over the line.  You've got no authority to say when people should show up, you're completely wrong to be making calls about who will play, when they will, and you know why.  Most of all, tonight, you were utterly out of line to physically handle your teammates.  I'm done.  I'm pulling you for the next three games, and after that, if you choose to return, it'll be to play my way--the way this team played long before you arrived.  If you can't do that, there's plenty of other teams in the league."

When you say it, pull him aside if you want, but don't worry about doing this where no one else will hear.  Your team needs to know you're doing something about this, and that you'll stand solid on it.  Whatever you do, don't be apologetic to Luke.  Don't express your sadness at having to do that.  He will see that as weakness, as a foothold. 

He will try to make this out to be your fault to some degree--or Joseph's, or someone else's.  He'll try to deflect, to muddy the waters.  Do not let him redirect.  Hell, just don't even engage.  It's no longer about him.  It's about fixing this fracture in your team--in this microcommunity. 

Just repeat "this discussion is over" and walk away.

It might feel like what you're doing is rude--and maybe it is, rude to him.  But to not end this is being rude to everyone else on the team, and enabling Luke to keep being ruder.  Your team will probably be glad to witness you firmly planting a foot down.

If you don't think you can do it in person, do it in mail.  One on one, CC'ing the directly affected--and then write your team.  "Team, I know there's been problems with Luke.  I'd be discreet and say 'a player,' but I think we're all aware.  This past game, he physically handled two players, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've given him an ultimatum about that and his other behaviors, and a three-game suspension.  If you want to dispute it, come to me.  After those three games, he's free to return, so long as he'll do it on our terms.  Any further bullying from him will cause him to be removed from the team.

"I'm sorry it's gone on this long.  I like to believe in the best in everyone, but sometimes, bullies just won't respond like normal folk.  Thank you for hanging in there, and I'm sorry to everyone who's been negatively impacted by him.  As your captain, I'll do my best to make sure that this is the last of it.  If you have questions or suggestions, I'm here.

"Thanks.  Now, what's up for the end-of-season party?"

Firm up that spine!  You need to shore it up with steel, even if temporarily.  Otherwise, plan on half of your team being gone next season, filled with Luke's picks, and your captainship being reduced to nothing but an emeritus position as he takes over.

More power to you.  You can do this.

POD to all of this

Don't just be called the Captain with all its administrative rights but BE the Captain.