Author Topic: You are not the captain of this team - I am.  (Read 14696 times)

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bopper

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2014, 09:21:04 AM »

POD to all of this

Don't just be called the Captain with all its administrative rights but BE the Captain.

Make sure there is not a leadership vacuum that Luke feels need to be filled.

English1

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2014, 11:41:33 AM »
I dont' think it's right to send an email to the team calling Luke a bully and snarking about him. Just focus on what has happened and giving everyone an update without the commentary. Or giving anyone the chance to also undermine your authority by 'disputing' your decision. Keep it professional, and not personal.

 "Team, just to keep you updated. Luke has been given a three-game suspension for physically handling two players at our last match, and for not respecting team management decisions and policies on several occasions.  After those three games, he's free to return, but any further infractions will cause him to be removed from the team.

If you have questions, I'm here.

"Thanks.  Now, what's up for the end-of-season party?"

AzaleaBloom

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2014, 12:13:57 PM »
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may. 

Possum

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2014, 12:15:16 PM »
I dont' think it's right to send an email to the team calling Luke a bully and snarking about him. Just focus on what has happened and giving everyone an update without the commentary.
If you're referring to the letter I gave, believe me--that's not snarky.  It's nothing that the team doesn't already know quite well, and it's probably much milder than what they're saying amongst themselves.  It's more important for the captain to show some spine and acknowledge how she knows the team is feeling--if she wants to still have a team. 
Quote
"Team, just to keep you updated. Luke has been given a three-game suspension for physically handling two players at our last match, and for not respecting team management decisions and policies on several occasions.  After those three games, he's free to return, but any further infractions will cause him to be removed from the team.
However, I like that wording a lot, too.
Quote
Or giving anyone the chance to also undermine your authority by 'disputing' your decision. Keep it professional, and not personal.
I don't think my letter left the Luke situation open to debate, but even if it did, I doubt there's a single person on the team that would argue in Luke's favor.

Possum

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2014, 12:26:39 PM »
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.
Just so you know, by doing it this way, you're pretty much ceding your authority to all.  You're not making a decision--you're letting them do it, and you'll follow their lead.  If this was a divisive matter, it'd be one thing, but from what I've gathered, it's not.  It sounds like a situation where you need to make the call.

I only say this, as bluntly as I do, because I've been in your shoes.  Almost exactly.  It wasn't a sports team, but it was a team (several), and I took the drawn out, softer approach to dealing with some people who were tremendous bullies.  People were polite to me about it, and privately supportive, but in the end, it killed the team/community.

Three times.

I've put your plan into action three different times, in three different contexts, and each time has failed.  Even people who said they'd stay, they all bailed at the first polite chance they had.  It killed the team/community.  They may do that same thing this time--no one's left yet, but when next season rolls around, some may decide to "skip this season" or "try another team."

For the sake of your team, wear your spine proudly, and your authority with steel and modesty.  You're captain for a reason.  It's all right to rise to it.

I hope you realize I say this not out of criticism, but out of desperate support for you.  It's not an easy thing to do, no matter how in the right you are, and it's even harder to tell what the right thing to do--and the right way to do it--is when you're in the midst of it.  Forest and trees; hindsight, etc.  But you can do it.  Hell, I grew up with a spine of linguini.  If I can do it, you can!

Stay steely, Cap'n.

Bethalize

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2014, 12:36:14 PM »
Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.

I think you had better step down as captain. You seem extremely unwilling to lead, to make decisions, to stand by them and to ensure compliance. From what you say here it seems that you act like you are the chair of a committee. That's not the same thing.

I really don't know what you're expecting people to say at this meeting. People hate conflict, they won't declare their hands and they won't pick one person over another. Certainly being the person to say "He goes or I go" would see me choosing that you go.

TootsNYC

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2014, 04:31:47 PM »
I get the impression you aren't all that interested in being captain of this team.

Some snippets from the OP that created this impression:

Quote
making me hate the sport I play for fun.


 I took over the team when the previous captain had to quit playing. 


 Since I'm the official captain of record, it is my job to deal with the situation. 


I'm wondering if you've had a change to think about what *you* want from this sport.

I wonder if you'd enjoy the sport more if you simply said, "I'm going to find a different team, one that already has a captain, so I can just play."
  If so, it's OK to quit. It's OK to leave one team and join another (league rules rule, of course).

Hmmmmm

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2014, 04:39:51 PM »
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.
Just so you know, by doing it this way, you're pretty much ceding your authority to all.  You're not making a decision--you're letting them do it, and you'll follow their lead.  If this was a divisive matter, it'd be one thing, but from what I've gathered, it's not.  It sounds like a situation where you need to make the call.

I only say this, as bluntly as I do, because I've been in your shoes.  Almost exactly.  It wasn't a sports team, but it was a team (several), and I took the drawn out, softer approach to dealing with some people who were tremendous bullies.  People were polite to me about it, and privately supportive, but in the end, it killed the team/community.

Three times.

I've put your plan into action three different times, in three different contexts, and each time has failed.  Even people who said they'd stay, they all bailed at the first polite chance they had.  It killed the team/community.  They may do that same thing this time--no one's left yet, but when next season rolls around, some may decide to "skip this season" or "try another team."

For the sake of your team, wear your spine proudly, and your authority with steel and modesty.  You're captain for a reason.  It's all right to rise to it.

I hope you realize I say this not out of criticism, but out of desperate support for you.  It's not an easy thing to do, no matter how in the right you are, and it's even harder to tell what the right thing to do--and the right way to do it--is when you're in the midst of it.  Forest and trees; hindsight, etc.  But you can do it.  Hell, I grew up with a spine of linguini.  If I can do it, you can!

Stay steely, Cap'n.

POD to all of this. Do not allow the team to decide the team dynamics. You are the Captain and should establish and demonstrate the team dynamics.

Take the lead in the pre-game meeting. State team policies.

1. Only the captain or co-captain can set mandatory training times and game meet times. Team members may set up optional training sessions as they would like.
2. No one subs out other players other than the captain or co-captain. If it occurs again, the captain or co-captain will call a time out or the team will be penalized for late start and the penalty will be on the person doing attempting the non-sanctioned subbing.
3. This is a recreational team only. There will be no trash talking to other team members. There will be no physical contact such as shoving of other team members. This behavior will constitute a 1 game penalty.
4. If any team member does not agree to these terms, we will understand when they choose to not return next season.


Firecat

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2014, 05:14:56 PM »
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.
Just so you know, by doing it this way, you're pretty much ceding your authority to all.  You're not making a decision--you're letting them do it, and you'll follow their lead.  If this was a divisive matter, it'd be one thing, but from what I've gathered, it's not.  It sounds like a situation where you need to make the call.

I only say this, as bluntly as I do, because I've been in your shoes.  Almost exactly.  It wasn't a sports team, but it was a team (several), and I took the drawn out, softer approach to dealing with some people who were tremendous bullies.  People were polite to me about it, and privately supportive, but in the end, it killed the team/community.

Three times.

I've put your plan into action three different times, in three different contexts, and each time has failed.  Even people who said they'd stay, they all bailed at the first polite chance they had.  It killed the team/community.  They may do that same thing this time--no one's left yet, but when next season rolls around, some may decide to "skip this season" or "try another team."

For the sake of your team, wear your spine proudly, and your authority with steel and modesty.  You're captain for a reason.  It's all right to rise to it.

I hope you realize I say this not out of criticism, but out of desperate support for you.  It's not an easy thing to do, no matter how in the right you are, and it's even harder to tell what the right thing to do--and the right way to do it--is when you're in the midst of it.  Forest and trees; hindsight, etc.  But you can do it.  Hell, I grew up with a spine of linguini.  If I can do it, you can!

Stay steely, Cap'n.

POD to all of this. Do not allow the team to decide the team dynamics. You are the Captain and should establish and demonstrate the team dynamics.

Take the lead in the pre-game meeting. State team policies.

1. Only the captain or co-captain can set mandatory training times and game meet times. Team members may set up optional training sessions as they would like.
2. No one subs out other players other than the captain or co-captain. If it occurs again, the captain or co-captain will call a time out or the team will be penalized for late start and the penalty will be on the person doing attempting the non-sanctioned subbing.
3. This is a recreational team only. There will be no trash talking to other team members. There will be no physical contact such as shoving of other team members. This behavior will constitute a 1 game penalty.
4. If any team member does not agree to these terms, we will understand when they choose to not return next season.

Unfortunately, dealing with the "Lukes" of the world (and their apologists, who in my opinion are almost worse) is one of the down sides of being in a leadership position.

At one time, I was one of the coordinators (so, one of the two people in charge) for a local non-profit event. We had one volunteer who was very enthusiastic, but was disruptive during meetings in the sense that he felt he needed to have input on every single decision, would insist on talking on every agenda item, and was extremely opinionated. And could get very huffy/hostile if someone tried to move the conversation along. Basically, due to this one person, meetings were taking three times as long as necessary (I wish I was exaggerating). And this is someone who was a volunteer, not a board member.

Now, I did basically like the person, and appreciated the enthusiasm. But he was antagonizing some of our other volunteers who were board members, and some other things. So my co-leader and I decided that we needed to address the behavior, and we scheduled a private meeting with the volunteer in question. We intended to discuss, as respectfully as possible, the behaviors we were finding problematic and try to help him understand what we wanted him to do instead.

Sadly, before the meeting could take place, he decided to badger me and the other co-leader (while we were at our paid jobs) trying to insist on knowing exactly why we wanted to talk to him, what had he done wrong, etc., etc.. And upon our polite insistence that really, we wanted to talk in person, screamed at me "I resign" and hung up. Which did solve the problem, in the sense that it made meetings more manageable and improved the dynamic of the group as a whole, but it wasn't fun at the time.

The one thing I've had to make peace with in my volunteer activities, particularly those in which I have a leadership role, is that there will always be someone who disagrees with whatever decision you make.

And there will always be those who, for whatever reason, won't or can't take on such a role for themselves, but who seem to take delight in criticizing or carping about those who do take on these tasks. It's best to acknowledge their existence, to sometimes review the arguments of those who disagree with you, as sometimes they may actually have a point, but to try not to take any of it personally (as difficult as that is, sometimes).

So yes, I agree with those saying that you need to have a firm conversation with Luke, and to be willing to take action to deal with his behavior, which is WAY out of line. It may or may not go well, but at least you will have made the attempt to be very clear with him about expectations and appropriate behavior, and that gives you the opportunity to take further action later if you need to.

PastryGoddess

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2014, 06:57:24 PM »
I have to agree,  either be a leader or step down.  The only reason you need to have a team meeting is to TELL people how things are going to be.  There is no need to solicit opinions. 

AzaleaBloom

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2014, 07:02:11 PM »
I thought about this quite a bit over the weekend.  When I took over as captain two years ago, it was with the understanding that the team was just a bunch of adults playing a sport we love, and my job was just to keep everyone updated on the schedule, to communicate with the venue, nag people to pay their fees (okay, not much nagging was involved :) ), and line up subs as needed.  Had I known I'd be dealing with drama like this, I would have never accepted it.  It's supposed to be fun, and a nice diversion from a job that sometimes drives me insane. 

So, no matter how things work out, I will step down as captain.  I love to play.  I really like most of my teammates.  I just don't have the time and energy to deal with the extra drama.  And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life.  In my fun one hour a week of recreation, I shouldn't have to.  I think James would be happy to step up as captain, and probably has the temperament to deal with it more than I do. 

Thanks for all the help - I mean that sincerely.  This is just one of those things that I'm looking at and realizing that it really isn't worth the stress and aggravation that I've had to devote to it.  That's what my job is for.  :P

TootsNYC

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2014, 07:15:27 PM »
I am so not surprised by your update. I applaud you! You are very wise--knowing ourselves, determining what it is that we really want, can be a very hard thing to do.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people continue to bang their heads against the wall, thinking that they have to solve the problem, win the fight, without realizing that they *can* "retire from the field." All the while suffering. I've personally done it three times that I can point to. One of them nearly killed me.

It isn't "quitting"--it's realigning your priorities.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 07:46:52 PM by TootsNYC »

Deetee

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2014, 07:40:57 PM »
I thought about this quite a bit over the weekend.  When I took over as captain two years ago, it was with the understanding that the team was just a bunch of adults playing a sport we love, and my job was just to keep everyone updated on the schedule, to communicate with the venue, nag people to pay their fees (okay, not much nagging was involved :) ), and line up subs as needed.  Had I known I'd be dealing with drama like this, I would have never accepted it.  It's supposed to be fun, and a nice diversion from a job that sometimes drives me insane. 

So, no matter how things work out, I will step down as captain.  I love to play.  I really like most of my teammates.  I just don't have the time and energy to deal with the extra drama.  And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life.  In my fun one hour a week of recreation, I shouldn't have to.  I think James would be happy to step up as captain, and probably has the temperament to deal with it more than I do. 

Thanks for all the help - I mean that sincerely.  This is just one of those things that I'm looking at and realizing that it really isn't worth the stress and aggravation that I've had to devote to it.  That's what my job is for.  :P

As much as I would like to hear that Luke got his commuppance, I agree with TootsNYC. There is a strength in knowing what you want, what you are good at and what you enjoy.

AngelicGamer

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2014, 08:42:40 PM »
OP, I agree with everyone else in the way that you're deciding to go.  The only thing that I would do is give your co-captain a heads up so he's not blindsided.  And who knows - he might want to step up and be the full captain on his own.




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LifeOnPluto

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Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2014, 08:54:43 PM »
I thought about this quite a bit over the weekend.  When I took over as captain two years ago, it was with the understanding that the team was just a bunch of adults playing a sport we love, and my job was just to keep everyone updated on the schedule, to communicate with the venue, nag people to pay their fees (okay, not much nagging was involved :) ), and line up subs as needed.  Had I known I'd be dealing with drama like this, I would have never accepted it.  It's supposed to be fun, and a nice diversion from a job that sometimes drives me insane. 

So, no matter how things work out, I will step down as captain.  I love to play.  I really like most of my teammates.  I just don't have the time and energy to deal with the extra drama.  And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life.  In my fun one hour a week of recreation, I shouldn't have to.  I think James would be happy to step up as captain, and probably has the temperament to deal with it more than I do. 

Thanks for all the help - I mean that sincerely.  This is just one of those things that I'm looking at and realizing that it really isn't worth the stress and aggravation that I've had to devote to it.  That's what my job is for.  :P

Good luck OP. It sounds like the best outcome would be if James stepped up and became captain.

And I hope that Luke doesn't become captain, or co-captain, because it sounds like he'd just give the stronger players (like himself) the most playtime, and make the weaker platers sit on the bench for most of the game!