Author Topic: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG  (Read 10199 times)

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TurtleDove

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2013, 09:28:26 PM »
I wouldn't expect my friends to escort me anywhere, and I would be irritated if they wanted to. I wonder if the friends are just more like me? Different people expect different things - I wonder if Rachel's friends have no idea she is upset. Like I said, I would never in a million years expect my friends to escort me home when they are having a fun time. I would be upset if they wanted to.

TurtleDove

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2013, 09:32:34 PM »
"To run off without bothering to make sure that Rachel had a safe way home, IMO, says clearly that they don't really care."

This is so interesting to me. I would never expect my friends to ensure my well being. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself! So a friend walks me to the train....who walks her to where she needs to go? Where does it end?

stargazer

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2013, 09:45:23 PM »
Because you are physically fit and not ill!  They are aware she has been sick and obviously has trouble moving at least as quickly as them.  I would hope if one of your friends was in a situation like Rachel you wouldn't just assume they were fine and run off to go to a bar but looking at your post above I'm not sure.

greencat

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2013, 09:45:47 PM »
"To run off without bothering to make sure that Rachel had a safe way home, IMO, says clearly that they don't really care."

This is so interesting to me. I would never expect my friends to ensure my well being. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself! So a friend walks me to the train....who walks her to where she needs to go? Where does it end?

They didn't tell Rachel they were going to the bar - they just left her in the venue and told her where they were at after they'd gotten there!  They had, apparently, arrived with Rachel - usually that would mean that you all leave together or only split up by mutual agreement.  And TurtleDove, if you are perfectly capable of protecting yourself, then YOU are the one who provides the walk-to-the-transportation to those who are not so certain of their physical safety walking alone.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2013, 09:47:27 PM »
But making sure Rachel had a safe way home doesn't take more than saying "You have a way home, right? Need any help?".  Not even a minute would it take to ask this.   Sure Rachel could say "Oh I'm good, go on and have fun" and I wouldn't think them bad friends if they did go and do their own thing.

From the information we have, they didn't do that. And Rachel sound like she would have appreciated some help but no one even asked.
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Yvaine

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2013, 09:49:34 PM »
Because you are physically fit and not ill!  They are aware she has been sick and obviously has trouble moving at least as quickly as them.  I would hope if one of your friends was in a situation like Rachel you wouldn't just assume they were fine and run off to go to a bar but looking at your post above I'm not sure.

This. They knew she was sick! She tried to demur from the outing because she knew she'd be moving slowly due to her illness. The friends urged her to come along anyway, implying they were fine with the limitations she was dealing with, and then they spent the whole night first badgering her about her walking speed, then just blowing her off. On two separate occasions.

Joeschmo

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2013, 09:51:19 PM »
"To run off without bothering to make sure that Rachel had a safe way home, IMO, says clearly that they don't really care."

This is so interesting to me. I would never expect my friends to ensure my well being. I am perfectly capable of protecting myself! So a friend walks me to the train....who walks her to where she needs to go? Where does it end?

Hopefully you are always able to get around well on your own and ensure your own well being because if not it sounds like from your description your friends would drop you like a hot potato.

TurtleDove

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2013, 09:52:28 PM »
"From the information we have, they didn't do that. And Rachel sound like she would have appreciated some help but no one even asked."

I maybe missed where Rachel asked for help and was denied? If she asked and her friends said, "no way! You are on your own!" I would share the outrage. But if, instead, as the OP said Rachel downplays her disability, I would assume the friends had no idea she was upset or needed help.

TurtleDove

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2013, 09:58:29 PM »
Perhaps this is a life stage thing. I wouldn't go somewhere if I couldn't handle myself. I am uncertain what Rachel wanted and whether she communicated that to her friends.

Yvaine

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2013, 09:59:31 PM »
"From the information we have, they didn't do that. And Rachel sound like she would have appreciated some help but no one even asked."

I maybe missed where Rachel asked for help and was denied? If she asked and her friends said, "no way! You are on your own!" I would share the outrage. But if, instead, as the OP said Rachel downplays her disability, I would assume the friends had no idea she was upset or needed help.

BG

Two events have occurred since then that Rachel is really upset at.

First: The group decided to go to the city for a movie at gold class. Rachel declined at first because she couldn't offer to drive and has to walk slowly and was worried the stairs would be an issue for her. The group all rallied around her and told her she HAD to come. They hadn't caught up for ages (i've seen the text messages back and forth). So Rachel goes. The girls decide to eat dinner at a restaurant they heard about. A considerable walking distance. rachel was slow and tells me the girls kept calling back to her to hurry up, to move faster etc. At one point they all ran across the road, leaving Rachel on one side on her own because she couldn't move fast enough to beat the traffic.
At the movies, the three girls walked up to the top of gold class. Rachel couldn't so sat down the bottom in a disabled seat.

Rachel tells me she spoke to Joanne about this afterwards when Joanne said to her that it was a pain to have to wait for her everywhere. Rachel apologised if she didn't make clear the effects of her illness and said her vision and balance were still bad. Joanne seemed to accept this.

Three weeks after that, second big concert comes around. Rachel had again tried to pull out but was told no.
There were 3 other girls on this trip as well as Rachel, Joanne, Kim and Angela.
Everyone suggested going shopping in the 2 hours before the concert opened. Joanne approached Rachel and said "they're going shopping, i'm staying with you. We'll go straight to the concert." Rachel thought this was really nice and thanked Joanne.
They get to the concert, Rachel suggests getting drinks. Joanne says no, let's find our seats first. Rachel says "I won't be able to get back up again and then down again."Joanne says no problem. They find their seats (walking down a stack of stairs, Rachel holding on for dear life).
Joanne then says "let's go back up and get drinks and stuff." Rachel again says she can't because the stairs were hard the first time around. Joanne goes anyway and comes back an hour and a half later with the rest of the group. No drinks for Rachel and just hands her back her money and says "sorry I couldn't carry anymore".

When the concert is over, Rachel tells me they all rushed for the doors, leaving Rachel on her own again climbing the stairs grasping the rails and being pushed and shoved by everyone around her.

Rachel gets out of the concert and can't find the girls. Joanne sends her a text saying they're going to get a drink at a pub a few blocks away and for Rachel to "meet us there when you can".

Rachel is tired and sad by this time and says "i might give it a miss. I'll go to the station and catch the train home". No reply from Joanne.

Rachel advocated for herself. Her "friends" still blew her off.

TheBardess

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2013, 10:03:11 PM »
"From the information we have, they didn't do that. And Rachel sound like she would have appreciated some help but no one even asked."

I maybe missed where Rachel asked for help and was denied? If she asked and her friends said, "no way! You are on your own!" I would share the outrage. But if, instead, as the OP said Rachel downplays her disability, I would assume the friends had no idea she was upset or needed help.

Actually, prior to the second outing, we're told that "Rachel apologised if she didn't make clear the effects of her illness and said her vision and balance were still bad. Joanne seemed to accept this."

And then, while at the movie theater during the second outing, Rachel twice made it clear that she could not handle the stairs:

"Rachel suggests getting drinks. Joanne says no, let's find our seats first. Rachel says "I won't be able to get back up again and then down again."Joanne says no problem. They find their seats (walking down a stack of stairs, Rachel holding on for dear life).
Joanne then says "let's go back up and get drinks and stuff." Rachel again says she can't because the stairs were hard the first time around. Joanne goes anyway and comes back an hour and a half later with the rest of the group. No drinks for Rachel and just hands her back her money and says "sorry I couldn't carry anymore".

So yeah, Rachel did attempt to make it clear that she was having trouble. Her "friends" didn't seem to care. Heck, they couldn't even be bothered to make sure she was with them when they left the theater! Instead, *knowing* she had trouble with the stairs, they ran out ahead, didn't check to see if she needed help or was even with them, and headed off to a bar without telling her. That's pretty inconsiderate in my book.
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bopper

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2013, 10:07:17 PM »
I am assuming that you are from Australia.  Are you all like the british in that if someone does something you don't like, you just grimace a bit and say "thank you?"
That is, not standing up for yourself? I wonder if Rachel is doing that...not making it clear what she needs or how limited she is.  It is great that her friends keep inviting her out, but I say they are in the Clueless dept.

TurtleDove

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2013, 10:07:41 PM »
How old are these people? I wonder whether they are either so young they think of no one but themselves, or so old they assume everyone else is capable of handling themselves?

MrsJWine

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2013, 10:07:59 PM »
I don't think friendship should really be treated as a survival of the fittest type scenario. Either you're friends (so you help and care for one another), or you're not (so you don't pressure non-friends into an evening out). It seems a pretty cold friendship that lacks sensitivity to such great needs. I am often very thoughtless, and I can understand someone just being clueless, but this is way beyond that. They're behaving in a way that I would expect of children who haven't fully developed empathy yet; I expect more kindness out of my five year old.


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TurtleDove

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Re: Clueless? Frenemies? Or trying to tell you the friendship is over? LONG
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2013, 10:15:13 PM »
I think what constitutes empathy is not a universal truth though. I would be irritated or offended if a friend wanted to babysit me! That's why, unless someone asked me directly to do something for them, I would assume they had their life and choices in check.