Author Topic: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.  (Read 8092 times)

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Psychopoesie

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More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« on: December 23, 2013, 10:15:53 PM »
The issue of uninvited guests has cropped up a bit on the boards recently and reminded me of this situation from several years ago.

I was staying with a relative, Linda, and her two kids, Pete and Pam who were around 9 and 10 years old as I recall. It was Pam's 11th birthday during the week I was there and Linda had planned a nice backyard pool party for Pam and her friends on the afternoon of her birthday.

Linda had been divorced from the kids' dad, Dave, for four or five years. Pam got to celebrate her birthday with her dad in the morning - an outing to the bowling alley with a few friends (plus her brother).

When Dave brought the kids back for the party, he stayed, although Linda had not invited him to be there. Apparently Pam had asked her dad to stay.

Although Dave and Linda have a reasonable working relationship because of the kids, they don't socialise together and hadn't done shared celebrations for anything since they split. Dave is a nice enough guy. I'm sure he loves his kids.

Linda remained courteous during the party. She was not best pleased by the situation and had a bit of a vent to me out of earshot when she was organising the party supplies. Apparently Dave's attendance at the party had not come up when they'd discussed the birthday arrangements (or with during discussions with the daughter).

The birthday celebrations, including the food and games were all held outside - in the pool, yard or covered area. Guests only went into the house to use the loo. Except Dave who went inside, had a good look around then went into the lounge room and made himself at home. He had not been invited inside either. The house was not the former family home (if that makes a difference). Nor had he been invited inside the house before (as Linda had not been to his). The hostess was outside organising games and only came inside to get more supplies. I had ducked inside to grab a couple of things when I ran into Dave.

The party was fine. Silly games, too much sugar, splashing kids, lots of squealing and running around. I doubt the other kids or the few parents who stayed even noticed.

I felt uncomfortable at the time. I think Linda was going to talk with Dave afterwards about it. If she did, I never heard how it turned out.

Sorry that ended up a bit on the long side.

My questions are:

Was Dave rude for accepting his daughter's invitation, since she was the GoH?

Would it have been better if he phoned the mum to see if it was okay first?

Was it rude for Dave to come inside without an invitation?

Could Linda have handled this better/differently?







greencat

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2013, 11:33:42 PM »
Dave was invited - by his daughter.

I'd guess Dave was feeling unwelcome at the party and went inside instead of outright leaving.

Dindrane

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2013, 11:43:16 PM »
I think given the age of the GoH, Dave really should have checked with Linda before saying he'd go. As an 11 year old, Pam likely doesn't precisely understand the dynamic between her parents (it's possible that she sees them getting along well enough when they interact, but doesn't realize how hard it would be for her mother to have her ex-husband in her home). She also isn't old enough to invite people to her house on just her say-so, in addition to the fact that while she might be the GoH, she wasn't the hostess. In that situation, she gets to have input and can make requests related to the guest list, but it's Linda's house and Linda is the hostess, so she gets final say (moreso than she would if Pam weren't still a minor child in her care).

I do think it would have been gracious for Linda to allow Dave to attend the party, had he asked to, because Pam obviously wanted him there. But at the same time, I completely understand why she would be so annoyed that he just showed up. Pam might not understand the dynamic between divorced parents, but Dave sure as heck ought to. Linda would have been well within politeness to turn him away at the door, but I imagine that would have left Pam rather upset, so I'm not surprised she didn't do it.

It would have been rude for anyone to wander the house when they weren't invited in (since the location of the party really was the yard), but it's particularly awkward that Dave did it. I don't think he was any ruder than anyone else would have been, but I do think his rudeness was far more likely to feel sort of unforgivable to Linda.

I don't think there's anything else Linda could have done without disappointing Pam right before her party. I do hope that she had a talk with Pam about not adding people to the guest list without checking with her host in advance, because even as the GoH, she still can't invite people without telling the person who is making the preparations for the party.


zyrs

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 11:46:11 PM »
1.  Was Dave rude for accepting his daughter's invitation, since she was the GoH? It wasn't rude to accept her invitation; however, he should have at least called his ex to give her a heads up.

2.  Would it have been better if he phoned the mum to see if it was okay first?  Yes, definitely.

3.  Was it rude for Dave to come inside without an invitation?  Not to use the restroom, but it was rude for him to then decide to stay in the house and make himself at home.

4.  Could Linda have handled this better/differently?  I think Linda handled it as well as you can expect.

AnnaJ

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 11:49:27 PM »
Dave should absolutely have checked with Linda before deciding to attend the party, and yes he was rude to assume he was invited to her house.  The fact that an 11 year old invited him makes no difference - if Pam had invited a child who isn't allowed in the house, or invited the guy that works in the snack bar at the skating rink, or the friendly homeless woman in the alley, would we think that an invitation from a child means that it's OK for that person to come into the home?

Could Linda have handled this better/differently?  I think she took the high road, here, and good for her; I would, however, be having a chat with Pam about the house rules and would sent a message to Dave that she didn't appreciate his tour of her home.








Nemesis

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2013, 11:57:16 PM »
Dave should absolutely have checked with Linda before deciding to attend the party, and yes he was rude to assume he was invited to her house.  The fact that an 11 year old invited him makes no difference - if Pam had invited a child who isn't allowed in the house, or invited the guy that works in the snack bar at the skating rink, or the friendly homeless woman in the alley, would we think that an invitation from a child means that it's OK for that person to come into the home?

Could Linda have handled this better/differently?  I think she took the high road, here, and good for her; I would, however, be having a chat with Pam about the house rules and would sent a message to Dave that she didn't appreciate his tour of her home.

I totally agree with this. My neighbour's kid always invites my daughter over to play. And I always check with the mom before sending my child over. Pam is a child. Dad ought to have known better.

kitchcat

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 01:58:47 AM »
I'd like to think that most adults know kids sometimes extend invites without asking their parents and the best thing to do it make sure it's okay with them before accepting. To me, it sounds like Dave knew he should have asked Linda if it was okay but decided to play dumb.
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cicero

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 02:30:13 AM »
I think that the fact that Dave is Pam and Pete's father makes this a *little* different. He isn't a stranger coming in to Linda's home. He isn't really an uninvited guest because it's the home where his children live. I understand that Dave and Linda need to have boundaries and respect but they also need to understand that for Pam - this is her dad and she wants him to be at her home/party. this is so not the time to pull the "i don't know i'll have to check" card IMHO.

So -
I don't think he was rude to accept the invitation. I do think he should have given the mom a head's up and discussed any ground rules with her.

I can't say if he was rude or not to go inside because I'm not sure what the set up was like. did Linda say "nobody enter the house unless you are using the bathroom"? If i were invited to a children's birthday party at their home, i wouldn't have thought the house was off limits unless specificially told (but i may be off base). he shouldn't be snooping, but I could see that he would be interested to see where his children live

(I will say this - my DS's bio-dad refuses to have anything to do with DS. for years. he once showed up on a surprise visit when i wasn't around. DS was so proud, showed him around etc (of course the @#$@ took photos of the house to "prove" i was a bad mom. to what end, i have no idea as he never wanted his son, but i digress). point is - as difficult as it was/would be for me to be civil with him, i would totally want DS to feel comfortable in inviting his father over *to his home*. would i want him roaming around without me there? no. but that's because my ex isn't a nice guy. if Dave and Linda have a civil relationship they should be able to work this out for the sake of their children.)

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Nemesis

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2013, 03:42:19 AM »
Of course they should try to work it out because of the children. But it doesn't mean that Dave can pop over and roam around the house just because his daughter lives there. I don't think it is reasonable for him to decide on plans with Pam that involves Linda (and Linda's house!) without first checking with Linda.

Hmmmmm

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2013, 05:55:45 AM »
I don't think it was rude for him to accept an invitation from Pam. She is a resident if the home and I would assume has some rights to invite guests to the home. And at 11 I would think she would know the difference between a stranger and a family member. But at 11, she should have also known to clear it with her mom first if she thought there could be an issue.

Since he had the kids with him, I'm not sure when he could have called in private before arriving a at the home. If he'd called to ask while the kids were in the car with him, he would be accused of putting her on the spot.

If Dave noticed he was less than welcome by his Ex, he should have made an excuse to leave early.

Dave should not have entered the home if he was not invited inside.

You said Linda remained courteous so I'm not sure what she could have changed.

YummyMummy66

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2013, 09:13:27 AM »
Dave was not rude.  His daughted wanted him at her birthday party.   

But, Dave was rude in the fact that he decided to make himself at home in a home that was not his. 

I tihnk your friend handled Dave with grace and will be a shining example for her children.

Lesson learned.  Plan birthday activities on different days. 

staceym

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2013, 09:27:08 AM »
Dave was not rude.  His daughted wanted him at her birthday party.   

But, Dave was rude in the fact that he decided to make himself at home in a home that was not his. 

I tihnk your friend handled Dave with grace and will be a shining example for her children.

Lesson learned.  Plan birthday activities on different days.

I'm going to agree with this - I think that the parties were on the same day and the dad was dropping off might have made it hard for Pam.  She might have felt bad thinking her dad might have felt bad and left out; divorce and separation are hard on kids.  Or, simply, she wanted him there.
I don't think it was rude for the dad to stay as he was invited by the guest of honor.  And, I think it was kinda good that he didn't call the mom, what would have happened if the mom said no and the dad had to tell Pam?  Again, I'm guess I'm always thinking of kids of divorce in this case.
Now, as far as Dave walking through the house and staying in the house?  I guess I have to hear exactly what he did.  Did he stay in the house throughout the party?  Nonetheless, yes it was rude to walk through the house and stay.

The mom sound like she handled it the best she could - kuddos to her not ruining it for Pam.

Roodabega

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2013, 09:31:12 AM »
I think that the fact that Dave is Pam and Pete's father makes this a *little* different. He isn't a stranger coming in to Linda's home. He isn't really an uninvited guest because it's the home where his children live. I understand that Dave and Linda need to have boundaries and respect but they also need to understand that for Pam - this is her dad and she wants him to be at her home/party. this is so not the time to pull the "i don't know i'll have to check" card IMHO.

So -
I don't think he was rude to accept the invitation. I do think he should have given the mom a head's up and discussed any ground rules with her.

I can't say if he was rude or not to go inside because I'm not sure what the set up was like. did Linda say "nobody enter the house unless you are using the bathroom"? If i were invited to a children's birthday party at their home, i wouldn't have thought the house was off limits unless specificially told (but i may be off base). he shouldn't be snooping, but I could see that he would be interested to see where his children live


If I go to an outdoor party at someones house, I would consider the house off limits unless I needed to use the restroom or was specifically told that going into the house was OK.  For the restroom I would ask first, assuming that there would be no problem.   I almost hate to disagree with you because I usually just nod my head whenver I read your posts. :)

JoieGirl7

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2013, 09:49:58 AM »
Dave was rude.  He should have checked with the mom first to see if it was OK for him to stay.  And once there for his daughter,  he should have been there with his daughter, not wandering in the house or making himself at home there.

If, for some reason Pam's mother did not want him there, he has made it so that she now has no say in the matter without greatly upsetting the birthday girl.  His response to his daughter's invitation should have been a maybe.

m2kbug

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Re: More uninvited guest (sort of) questions - bit long sorry.
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2013, 09:57:10 AM »
Dave was rude for making himself at home and snooping about.  Linda should have been more forceful in removing him or establishing some boundaries, which could have been done discretely, though I see this easily turning into a scene, so take your chances, Linda would know.  I probably would have had my sister or BIL with me as backup. 

Dad should have also asked permission or waited for Mom to give the green light.  I would have said no.  "Sorry, sweetie, Daddy can't stay."  Dad could have easily backed out.  "Remember, I have to go to work, that's why we went bowling early."  Anything.  There's no way I would allowed it, at least not at my home.  Maybe I would think differently at a public location. 

I think the best solution would be to plan her parties at a different time than on a shared day.  We split birthdays odd/even years and each parent can do what they want independently on their weekend.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 12:15:24 PM by m2kbug »