Author Topic: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?  (Read 12228 times)

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GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2014, 02:59:12 PM »
I don't think you came over as a snob. I think one of the hardest things to remember is that  something which  is obvious / common sense to you or me, may not be obvious to others - which then led me to try to think whether I'd ever actually been *told* or *taught* how to write a resume/CV - and as far as I can remember, the only time that happened was when I was at University, and it was a short (optional) presentation. I did get advice from others, but it was because I sought it out.  I don't know whether it is something which is ever covered in schools.  And one of the most useful pieces of advice I had came from my Dad.

There were at least 5 classes at my high school that covered resumes and basic interview prep. One of which was mandatory for all freshmen, in less you opted out by taking one of the other 2 classes that also covered it (I took one of them). Still I know people I went to high school with who seemed amazed to learn that basketball shorts and a t-shirt is not appropriate to wear to an interview. So apparently you can teach it and it still doesn't sink in.

Once, a few years back, one of my friends and I bumped into a guy my friend had known pretty well in high school. I knew him in the we went to the same school , but we never hung out. Well he told us about this interview he's just been on and could you believe it then lady interviewing him had taken one look at him and said "You are obviously unprepared for this interview, please leave" and when he'd protested she'd told him if he couldn't be bothered to dress appropriately (he was wearing the aforementioned basketball shorts and a t-shirt), she couldn't be bothered to interview him. And sent him on his way. Could we believe the nerve of that woman?! They should accept for who he is! I was pretty shocked that someone in their mid-twenties with a college education (we went to the same college) thought that he didn't have to dress the part for a job interview.

I had a teacher once tell us that a job interview was an audition and that the point of an audition is to convince the director/casting people you can play the part. So in a job interview the director/casting people are the supervisors/hiring managers/bosses interviewing you. Show them you can play the part. You wouldn't show up to an audition unprepared, don't show up to an interview unprepared. This was a drama class, the analogy worked for us.

blewellyn

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2014, 03:21:39 PM »
I am in the US, and you can apply for jobs over the internet to satisfy the requirements for unemployment benefits. You only have to document how many companies you apply to, not how many interviews you go on.

You also have to accept a position if it is offered to you.  The easiest way to sabotage an interview if you don't want a job is to show up dressed inappropriately.

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bloo

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2014, 03:24:07 PM »
I think there are a lot of people who genuinely *don't* know what is expected - and even now, a lot of people who don't think to look for information online.

Of course some may be people who don't want to work, or who only want a very specific job. But I have had candidates who clearly, desperately wanted the job, but had no clue about how to present themselves or their application.

I'm not sure that this is something which people are actually *taught*

You're right. I hope my post didn't make me sound like a major snob. There are some exceptions and I should know better than to generalize.  :(

Actually, I think some are taught. Some refuse to accept the teaching...until it's too late.

SnappyIt started a thread along these lines based on an exchange between himself and his son when he gave his son advice on how to dress for a scholarship interview.

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=125381.0

tinkytinky

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2014, 03:25:56 PM »

I had a teacher once tell us that a job interview was an audition and that the point of an audition is to convince the director/casting people you can play the part. So in a job interview the director/casting people are the supervisors/hiring managers/bosses interviewing you. Show them you can play the part. You wouldn't show up to an audition unprepared, don't show up to an interview unprepared. This was a drama class, the analogy worked for us.

I have gone a step further and taught my teenagers to dress appropriately/nicely for the application process. Not drastic, not tuxes or prom dresses, but say, your best jeans with a nice polo shirt, or a casual dress or skirt and top. and don't go in with a handful of applications that you just picked up at the last 4 places you went. keep them in a folder/notebook. (this is if you are at a mall type of establishement).

This worked out well for my 17 yo daughter who decided on the spur of the moment to go apply at some local businesses. She dressed in nice jeans, pretty sweater and dressy boots. The third place she went to not only had her fill out an application, but then the hiring manager spoke to her then and there. She was hired on the spot.

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cheyne

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2014, 03:42:12 PM »
If all kids receive a trophy or pass to the next grade or get praised for breathing, why would they strive to be their best?  In their world there is no reason to do so, as they believe what they want will be handed to them anyway.  These people carry this attitude with them throughout their lives, unless someone takes the time to point it out to them.

Library Dragon

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2014, 03:44:42 PM »
I think some of our interviewees may have ended up in your building  ;) .

Some people want to learn and work hard at becoming employable.  They take advantage of the myriad classes offered for free. Others--not so much.  We frequently offer free resume writing and interviewing classes, basic computer classes, etc.  I wanted to thump one patron using the computer who asked for help creating his resume.  I pointed out that at that very moment we had a class on resume writing and he would be able to create it and have it reviewed.  He didn't want to bother with that. 

DS2 is getting ready to leave active duty this spring.  The Army has a multi-session program with interview skills, resume writing, etc.  DS2 explained that he had to write his resume, have it reviewed, and re-write it.  I was pleased that this was mandatory.  I love DS2, but he would say, "Oh, I know how to do that." 

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GreenEyedHawk

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2014, 03:56:24 PM »
Given that Anthony has been desperately looking for work for almost two months now (again!) this whole situation just makes me want to burst into flames.  I can't get people who can't be bothered to work.
"After all this time?"
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kategillian

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2014, 04:22:18 PM »
I went to a trade school in the Northeast, and boy oh boy, one thing they drilled into us was how to get a job. They had a very high placement rate for school of that type, and we had classes on interviewing, resumes, mannerisms and all of that. When I first started working, the hotel that I worked at was in a beachy tourist area so we had a large turnover of employees, you know, season to season. I was absolutely amazed at the amount of people that would come in without even a pen to fill out the application! Or they would come straight from the beach with dirty hair and no shoes! Who the heck goes to an interview without their shoes? But I've seen it. I would always write on the application, in pencil, what was wrong with how the people presented themselves

Library Dragon

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2014, 04:37:37 PM »
Another issue that popped up today. 

Thank you applicant for updating your address with us since you owe us $$$ in materials.  We won't be calling for an interview.

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PastryGoddess

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2014, 06:42:41 PM »
I went to a public magnet or honors high school.  In my high school, the only reason I knew how to interview was because I took a work study class my senior year.  I managed to get a job when I was 15 at a local caterer, but that was because I got a referral from a family member. I went to trade school and then college and both offered seminars on getting a job, but they were not mandatory. 

So I think it is possible for people to get through high school and college and not know how to interview.

Hillia

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2014, 06:45:21 PM »
I went to a public magnet or honors high school.  In my high school, the only reason I knew how to interview was because I took a work study class my senior year.  I managed to get a job when I was 15 at a local caterer, but that was because I got a referral from a family member. I went to trade school and then college and both offered seminars on getting a job, but they were not mandatory. 

So I think it is possible for people to get through high school and college and not know how to interview.

I graduated from high school in 1980 and college in 1985 (hey, I was sick a lot), and never had any sort of guidance on dressing for an interview, writing resumes, etc.  I'm actually not sure where I picked it up - my mother would have guided me on dressing for an interview, maybe I picked up resume writing from books?

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Yvaine

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2014, 06:47:29 PM »
If all kids receive a trophy or pass to the next grade or get praised for breathing, why would they strive to be their best?  In their world there is no reason to do so, as they believe what they want will be handed to them anyway.  These people carry this attitude with them throughout their lives, unless someone takes the time to point it out to them.

Can we not turn this into generation-bashing? I've met people of all ages who have no clue how to act or dress professionally. In some cases it's genuine ignorance and in other cases it's just not giving a darn, but it's not limited to the generation about which the "trophy" stereotypes are bandied.

Back on topic, I think a lot of schools just don't cover this stuff much, and if you don't know to seek it out, you might not find out except the hard way. I think I learned most of what I know about job-seeking and interviewing from books and blogs as an adult. Just today, at work, I assisted an older gentleman who had been in the workforce for many years but had no idea what a cover letter was or how to write one; he was a blue-collar worker who had never needed one until all the job openings became online-only.

Lady Snowdon

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2014, 07:15:41 PM »
I never learned, in my high school, undergrad or grad programs, how to dress for an interview, how to write a resume, or how to interview.  I learned how to dress from my mom, how to write a resume from a relative who works in HR, and I still fail miserably at interviewing.  On the other hand, in my 9 years of post-high school classes (4 years for undergrad, 5 years for master's), I've been treated to no less than 13 presentations on how to use library resources.  So maybe there should be a balance - replace some presentations on library use with presentations on finding/getting/keeping a job? ;)


Yvaine

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2014, 07:44:24 PM »
I never learned, in my high school, undergrad or grad programs, how to dress for an interview, how to write a resume, or how to interview.  I learned how to dress from my mom, how to write a resume from a relative who works in HR, and I still fail miserably at interviewing.  On the other hand, in my 9 years of post-high school classes (4 years for undergrad, 5 years for master's), I've been treated to no less than 13 presentations on how to use library resources.  So maybe there should be a balance - replace some presentations on library use with presentations on finding/getting/keeping a job? ;)

I wound up in more than one class on the basic parts of a computer. As in, not using popular software or anything like that, but "This...is...a....mouse. This...is...a...keyboard" level stuff.  ;D I think some basic job-searching advice could replace some of that material too. Of course there's always the danger that the advice could get out of date without the instructors realizing it. Ask a Manager talks about outdated and bizarre advice that sometimes gets handed out by college career counselors.

sunnygirl

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2014, 11:13:18 PM »
All this info is widely available for free online, at the library, and sometimes in other free public resources like Citizens Advice Bureaus or Education Advice services. Education is all around us. No matter how good a school someone goes to, the onus is always on them to study and learn and make the most of what's available, not rely on others to shove knowledge into them. I had to leave formal schooling when I was 12 due to childhood abuse and homelessness and didn't return to formal schooling till I was 24 (and progressed on to PhD level). Everything practical I taught myself - how to balance my finances, maintain a home, write a CV and apply for jobs, etc. I know it's judgmental but I find it hard not to have a gut reaction when people say, "but I wasn't taught that in school!" Unless someone is illiterate (because that's something you really do need someone else to teach you/enable you to learn when a young child, and learning it as an adult is difficult and requires specific resources), has a serious learning disability, or lives a very disadvantaged life with have no access to the Internet. etc., that is a poor excuse.

Though I think I may be being too harsh, because perhaps part of the problem is that the education systems in some places don't instill kids with the idea of learning and finding out answers by themselves. The most essential skill any school, teacher or parent can teach is the desire and ability to learn, not any specific type knowledge or fact.