Author Topic: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?  (Read 12095 times)

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Tea Drinker

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2014, 12:59:23 AM »
All this info is widely available for free online, at the library, and sometimes in other free public resources like Citizens Advice Bureaus or Education Advice services. Education is all around us. No matter how good a school someone goes to, the onus is always on them to study and learn and make the most of what's available, not rely on others to shove knowledge into them. I had to leave formal schooling when I was 12 due to childhood abuse and homelessness and didn't return to formal schooling till I was 24 (and progressed on to PhD level). Everything practical I taught myself - how to balance my finances, maintain a home, write a CV and apply for jobs, etc. I know it's judgmental but I find it hard not to have a gut reaction when people say, "but I wasn't taught that in school!" Unless someone is illiterate (because that's something you really do need someone else to teach you/enable you to learn when a young child, and learning it as an adult is difficult and requires specific resources), has a serious learning disability, or lives a very disadvantaged life with have no access to the Internet. etc., that is a poor excuse.

Though I think I may be being too harsh, because perhaps part of the problem is that the education systems in some places don't instill kids with the idea of learning and finding out answers by themselves. The most essential skill any school, teacher or parent can teach is the desire and ability to learn, not any specific type knowledge or fact.

There's also a difference between "nobody taught me where to buy clothes for an interview" and "nobody told me that it matters what I wear to an interview." They may know that they should wear clean clothes that fit, but not that what they should wear for an interview isn't the same as what someone who already has that job might wear for casual Friday. Or the difference between not knowing how to make a budget, and having no idea that there is such a thing, or that it might be relevant to an individual or household. (Headlines about the federal government and its budget deficits aren't likely to help much here.)
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sunnygirl

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2014, 09:42:08 AM »
I get your point, but I'd consider the second of both examples to be basic common sense, and also something a person should educate themselves on unless certain. I'd never heard of a CV before I started looking for a job aged 16, but the Internet taught me everything. Spend been five minutes Googling "how to get a job" and a million sites will pop up, and I bet nearly all of them talk about the importance of dressing appropriately.

Margo

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2014, 03:45:40 PM »
I agree, but in order to do the google search, you need to know that you don't know what is normal / expected, and to be bright enough / tech savvy enough to think of doing the research online. A surprising (to me, anyway) number of people fail on one or both of those.


veronaz

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2014, 04:20:32 PM »
While I realize there are many, many people in the job market who are seriously looking for a position to commit to, there are still quite a few who only want to fine a place they can earn a few paychecks from for awhile.  This might be reflected in the way they dress and conduct themselves when they apply for a job.  Usually they arenít supporting themselves and just want to make enough to get by for awhile or buy something as soon as they can.  They arenít thinking long-term - because they don't have to.

Or, they just want to be able to tell their parents, mate, etc. "Yeah, yeah, I'm looking for a job...get off my back."

Katana_Geldar

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2014, 04:30:28 PM »
People who do this make me sad when I do all the right things at interviews and still don't get the job.

Lindee

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2014, 04:39:14 PM »
The local school I taught in had a compulsory year 10 work education subject which included resume writing, a work experience placement week and a mock interview conducted by local business people. The students had to bring in suitable clothes and were given great feedback . One of the most useful parts of the course.

Mary Lennox

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2014, 04:45:28 PM »
My boss asked me to set up some interviews for her. My favourite was the lady who I spoke with 4 hours before her interview, confirming details with her...and she didn't even show up! Or call to let us know she couldn't make it.

MurPl1

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2014, 05:08:03 PM »

I had a teacher once tell us that a job interview was an audition and that the point of an audition is to convince the director/casting people you can play the part. So in a job interview the director/casting people are the supervisors/hiring managers/bosses interviewing you. Show them you can play the part. You wouldn't show up to an audition unprepared, don't show up to an interview unprepared. This was a drama class, the analogy worked for us.

I have gone a step further and taught my teenagers to dress appropriately/nicely for the application process. Not drastic, not tuxes or prom dresses, but say, your best jeans with a nice polo shirt, or a casual dress or skirt and top. and don't go in with a handful of applications that you just picked up at the last 4 places you went. keep them in a folder/notebook. (this is if you are at a mall type of establishement).

This worked out well for my 17 yo daughter who decided on the spur of the moment to go apply at some local businesses. She dressed in nice jeans, pretty sweater and dressy boots. The third place she went to not only had her fill out an application, but then the hiring manager spoke to her then and there. She was hired on the spot.

That is sooo true!  Those first impressions even for asking for an application matter.  We had called two girls apply at my restaurant.  One had no answering machine and no way to leave a message and I'm not calling more than twice.  The other DID have an answering machine but never bothered to call back to arrange an interview.  Whatever, we had other apps. 

A few weeks later I'm walking into the store after a run to the bank and there are two girls sitting in the lobby in pajama bottoms and camisole type tanks (the fitted ones with the spaghetti straps.)  Filling out apps.  I already knew there was no way I'd even bother to review those apps.  Until I noticed the names were the same ones as the two we'd already tried to call.

Nothing screams I really am only filling this app out to appease my parents, the unemployment office or my parole officer like showing up in your jammies.

It's good to be Queen

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2014, 05:09:14 PM »
I am trying to fill a position, first day of interviews I scheduled 3, only 1 showed up.  Second day, 2 showed and 1 was dressed for a night out.  I guess she figured she would dress in her best for the interview, but she was dressed for a night out in the bars with friends.  Can't wait to see what Tuesday brings.

Amara

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2014, 07:54:47 PM »
In regards to wearing good clothes when one fills out an application, may I just add a huge and loud "YES!" My father always taught us to dress up so we did. This has stayed with me all my life, but when I once applied to FedEx it was especially apparent why.

FedEx ran a large ad saying they would be interviewing for drivers in our area on a certain day. They wanted us to come to a certain location at a specific time. I was the only woman out of about three dozen applicants. We were herded into a large room with about eight rows of rectangular tables and chairs. When the two women--both dressed smartly in business suits--came up to talk about the application process, which is insanely complex, I took the opportunity to look around a bit and confirm my surprised analysis that I was the only one in a suit. It was a dark blue knit one with a button sweater jacket and straight skirt so it was comfy but nice. One man who may have been a few years older than I wore dark pants with a white shirt and nice tie. No jacket. Everyone else was in jeans, t-shirts, even shorts. I was amazed.

Though I had no experience in the area, I was one of only six invited for an interview immediately afterward, and I later found out I was one of only two offered a position. I simply could not believe that people didn't take the application meeting seriously.

A second piece of advice I got has always proved useful, and that is to get there early, park out in a place--around the corner, down the block--where you know you can't be seen--and do your final checks there. Once you are even possibly, remotely within sight of anyone in the company don't do any of that. Just turn the engine off, get out of the car, and walk in. You'll look and feel supremely confident. (And I always have.)

ladyknight1

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2014, 09:21:03 PM »
I never took any sort of class about interviewing, although my CV was reviewed as part of an undergrad honors workshop.

I see a lot of applicants at interviews (I am an interviewer) that do not dress for the interview. Clean, neat, pressed. No sneakers.

We find a lot of applicants exaggerate their experience or qualifications and it is difficult for us to determine that until we move their application forward in the process.

Library Dragon

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2014, 12:09:55 AM »
Over selling is also a problem. If you're interviewing for an entry level position I don't need to be told what (general) you think is wrong with our library. Don't tell me we need to have wifi when we've had it for years.  I need to know that you're willing to work hard, take direction, and not be a whiner.

If I'm not above cleaning the restroom neither are (general) you. I like to grow leaders and move people up, but they need to know how to listen first.  Not everybody can be the a department head.

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medowynd

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2014, 01:58:37 AM »
When my daughter was 15, she wanted to get a job.  We discussed how to dress, fill out the job application and interview.  Ten kids applied for the job, making pizzas, all of them over 16.  My daughter got the job, because she dressed for it and interviewed well.  The manager told her, that although she would have to get a work permit, he was impressed that she took looking for a job seriously and her presentation was a big part of why she was hired.

Winterlight

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2014, 09:58:36 AM »
I think there are a lot of people who genuinely *don't* know what is expected - and even now, a lot of people who don't think to look for information online.

Of course some may be people who don't want to work, or who only want a very specific job. But I have had candidates who clearly, desperately wanted the job, but had no clue about how to present themselves or their application.

I'm not sure that this is something which people are actually *taught*

Good point. Sometimes people don't know that they don't know things, if that makes sense.
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SiderisAnon

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Re: I guess you don't really want a job, do you?
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2014, 10:36:53 AM »
While there are certainly plenty of people who just don't care about the right way and wrong way to dress for something like an interview, there are also plenty of people who simply do not know.  Neither my high school or my college taught anything about interviews or resumes/CVs.  Most of what I learned, I learned from observing other people.

Even the good worker can be clueless.  At one professional office I worked, we had a quite competent young woman who knew about what clothes to wear and how to wear them, but apparently nobody had ever talked to her about wearing glitter into work at 20.  (She may just not have understood the difference between "makeup for the club" vs "makeup for the office".  It got worked out by conversation with some of the others of her age in the office.)



There is also a lot of information out there that is flat out wrong.  I took a professional writing course at one point after college, and while much of it was useful, the way they taught writing resumes contained a number of things that would get you instantly disqualified at many companies.

There are also people who will advise that you don't wear the dress "uniform" of the office so that you stand out, show off your confidence, or whatever other crazy thing they come up with.


At least it all gives interesting threads for Etiquette Hell.  :)
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