I guess you don't really want a job, do you?

[faithlessone]

I've never run across a university that didn't have a career center available for students to acquire these skills. My DD is a freshmen this year and we attended tours of over 12 universities, some large and some small private ones, and each talked about their career placement centers that assisted students in acquiring these skills.

Our "Careers Service" as it was called, was a bit of a joke.

I went to a "resume clinic" that they held, which advised us to put absolutely everything on our CVs. List all our individual modules/courses, clubs/societies we went to, right down to swimming certificates we got as kids - anything to make us "stand out". They also suggested getting headshots (like model/actor headshots) to make our CVs look "more professional".

I think that there's a wide spectrum of jobseekers out there. Some want jobs, some don't. Some know what to do and do it, some know and don't, some don't know but want to, some don't know and don't care. I've met people who can't figure out how to dress themselves, and others who can dress immaculately but swear or overshare, and that's why they never get positions.

Then again, I also know people who dress appropriately, speak appropriately, and for one reason or another, just can't get a job.

[FauxFoodist]

I had a teacher once tell us that a job interview was an audition and that the point of an audition is to convince the director/casting people you can play the part. So in a job interview the director/casting people are the supervisors/hiring managers/bosses interviewing you. Show them you can play the part. You wouldn't show up to an audition unprepared, don't show up to an interview unprepared. This was a drama class, the analogy worked for us.

I have gone a step further and taught my teenagers to dress appropriately/nicely for the application process. Not drastic, not tuxes or prom dresses, but say, your best jeans with a nice polo shirt, or a casual dress or skirt and top. and don't go in with a handful of applications that you just picked up at the last 4 places you went. keep them in a folder/notebook. (this is if you are at a mall type of establishement).

This worked out well for my 17 yo daughter who decided on the spur of the moment to go apply at some local businesses. She dressed in nice jeans, pretty sweater and dressy boots. The third place she went to not only had her fill out an application, but then the hiring manager spoke to her then and there. She was hired on the spot.

I worked in a drug store in a mall when I was 16 years old.  I remember one of my managers (20-something) telling me that a girl had just stopped by to drop off her application WEARING A BIKINI.  I was puzzled why someone would even walk around the mall in a bikini and discovered there was a teen beauty pageant going on in the mall that day.  Still, that beauty pageant took place later and, even if it were immediate, why in the world would someone think it acceptable to walk around the mall like that (my store was at the far end of the mall while the beauty pageant was taking place in the middle of the mall so it's not like the store was right next to the pageant area).  I have a feeling that application didn't go very far.

[GlitterIsMyDrug]

Ok, what's the deal with the photo as part of your resume? This isn't the first time I've heard it and I just can't figure out why in the world any employer would even want (let alone need) such a thing.

Are they making sure they have enough blondes? Trying to plan the annual company photo, want to make sure it'll look good?

Head shots for actors, models, ect, I get. But for your average jobs? What is the point?

[FauxFoodist]

Given that Anthony has been desperately looking for work for almost two months now (again!) this whole situation just makes me want to burst into flames.  I can't get people who can't be bothered to work.

ToxicSis is one of those individuals.  She spent several months in 2012 posting about how much she was enjoying her "funemployment."  Apparently, she was waiting for her worker's comp check to come in.  It did, she spent it and now she has no money to even pay her cell phone bill (I know this because my mom's cell was part of her plan and is disconnected; when I asked Mom what happened to her phone, she said, "Oh, ToxicSis doesn't have a job yet so she doesn't have the money to pay the bill").  ToxicSis hasn't had a steady job in about ten years (I have no idea how long she was at this last place before filing a worker's comp claim).  I know she goes hiking and goes to amusement parks so I don't think it's a matter of not being able to move around (and she has desk jobs like I do).  I know, before the last job, she quit the previous two because she was unhappy with something or other (I used to think it was them; now I think it's her).

[FauxFoodist]

Ok, what's the deal with the photo as part of your resume? This isn't the first time I've heard it and I just can't figure out why in the world any employer would even want (let alone need) such a thing.

Are they making sure they have enough blondes? Trying to plan the annual company photo, want to make sure it'll look good?

Head shots for actors, models, ect, I get. But for your average jobs? What is the point?

I've noticed that when we receive resumes for applicants from different countries, they often include their photo; the US applicants never send us their photo.

[SamiHami]

Ok, what's the deal with the photo as part of your resume? This isn't the first time I've heard it and I just can't figure out why in the world any employer would even want (let alone need) such a thing.

Are they making sure they have enough blondes? Trying to plan the annual company photo, want to make sure it'll look good?

Head shots for actors, models, ect, I get. But for your average jobs? What is the point?

I've noticed that when we receive resumes for applicants from different countries, they often include their photo; the US applicants never send us their photo.

We are interviewing for a couple of positions right now and couple of the resumes have photos on them. I guess the candidates are trying to stand out more?

[Jones]

My worst interview ever, I was a junior in high school (age 16). I needed a job because I came from a large family and would now be responsible for my own school fees and clothing. It was for a part time organization and janitorial work position at a craft and decoration shop. I wore a Sunday dress (slacks and button up would have been better) and I didn't have a list of references (my babysitting families). Oh the awkwardness as I flipped through a phone book writing down names and numbers! I learned from the experience and when I applied for a grocery bagger position around a week later I was hired on the spot, and stayed until well after turning 18.

My high school had a concurrent enrollment program with the community college and I took a Careers 101 class my senior year. Various resume types, practiced giving and receiving an interview, research of our dream jobs and steps necessary to that career. It was an incredibly valuable class.

So that's the point - we have to be willing and able to be ego-less and learn. To understand that maybe i dont know all. To realuze that the advice i got from school/mom/employment agency was incorrect or irrelavent. It's not even always about doing things *wrong* , but learning for example that there are different work cultures and expectations. So you, at 16 , were able to do that, while we have grownups who can't or won't.

I never took a class in job seeking but was always willing to listen to advice and to read between the lines , so when I was rejected once, twice, thrice, started to revise my tactics.

Embarrassment was a great teacher for me. I didn't want to dress better than the person doing the interview, that was awkward, and I sure didn't want to borrow a phone book again. Not that Steve called any of my references that I know of, but I did attach the list to the application.

Some people have a difficult time feeling embarrassed, in my experience, which could be why they apply in bikinis (! ! !) or sweat pants.

[DCGirl]

Ok, what's the deal with the photo as part of your resume? This isn't the first time I've heard it and I just can't figure out why in the world any employer would even want (let alone need) such a thing.

Are they making sure they have enough blondes? Trying to plan the annual company photo, want to make sure it'll look good?

Head shots for actors, models, ect, I get. But for your average jobs? What is the point?

I've noticed that when we receive resumes for applicants from different countries, they often include their photo; the US applicants never send us their photo.

Employers in the US are generally discouraged from requesting photos unless how a person looks is somehow BFOQ (bona fide occupational qualification) and that usually means it's an acting job.  Otherwise, in our litigious society, an applicant who doesn't get called for an interview could potentially claim that not being called was the result of being a member of a minority group which could be determined by the photo.

[Tsaiko]

I think the idea of teaching 'life skills' such as resume writing, interviewing, etc, is a relatively (like in the last 20-30 years) development.  I graduated in 1980, and unless you were in the DECA program, which was specifically designed to prepare students for work rather than college, there was no mention of it.  I went to 3 different colleges, 1 public and 2 private, and while there was a 'career guidance' office, it was more about coordinating requests from companies looking for graduates in a specific field.  They might have had a few sample resumes, but I think I learned to write one from library books - which were full of bad info, like 'include your height, weight, marital status, health status, and hobbies' and 'always attach a photo'.

That must have been the book my dad had!  It was in the 1980s too, because that's when he got laid off and completely switched career direction as a result.

Bolded mine for emphasis. Fun fact: All of those things were pretty standard on resumes at one point. if you look at old newspapers (think 50's and 60's and earlier, though sometimes it extended into the 70's and 80's) jobs were divided into "Looking for male applicants" and "Looking for female applicants." Resumes would have included pictures, height, weight, etc.  All this was considered the norm.

Then several laws were passed stating you couldn't discriminate against job applicants based on age, marital status, sex, etc. So employers stopped wanting this information on resumes in order to emphasize  that they were only looking at qualifications. Of course, in some cases this is total BS, but by not having it on the resume, they could have more a legitimate argument that they brought in all sorts of people. It's just that when  "We brought in X, but didn't believe that he/she would be a good personality fit/didn't match our corporate culture/etc. so that why we hired the person we did." It's basically a CYA maneuver.

I worked for a recruiting firm. We'd still occasionally get resume with photos, marital statues, and my favorite Social Security Numbers. Every time we'd tell the candidate "We do not accept resumes with XYZ. Please revise and resend."

As someone else said, in some countries this biographical information is still very much the norm (India, for example) and resumes without it would be trashed.

[DollyPond]

Given that Anthony has been desperately looking for work for almost two months now (again!) this whole situation just makes me want to burst into flames.  I can't get people who can't be bothered to work.

ToxicSis is one of those individuals.  She spent several months in 2012 posting about how much she was enjoying her "funemployment."  Apparently, she was waiting for her worker's comp check to come in.  It did, she spent it and now she has no money to even pay her cell phone bill (I know this because my mom's cell was part of her plan and is disconnected; when I asked Mom what happened to her phone, she said, "Oh, ToxicSis doesn't have a job yet so she doesn't have the money to pay the bill").  ToxicSis hasn't had a steady job in about ten years (I have no idea how long she was at this last place before filing a worker's comp claim).  I know she goes hiking and goes to amusement parks so I don't think it's a matter of not being able to move around (and she has desk jobs like I do).  I know, before the last job, she quit the previous two because she was unhappy with something or other (I used to think it was them; now I think it's her).

IdjitNephew once quit a well paying video editing job so he could play baseball......NOT professionally - recreationally.

It was 3 years before he had another job and he had to move to another city because word travels fast.

[QueenfaninCA]

Ok, what's the deal with the photo as part of your resume? This isn't the first time I've heard it and I just can't figure out why in the world any employer would even want (let alone need) such a thing.

In Germany (at least until 15 years ago when I moved to the US; no idea about current customs) it was pretty much mandatory to include a professional head-shot in your application. But then you would also include your marital status and any kids in your CV and needed to include certified copies ($$) of all diplomas from highschool on up. Sending out a lot of applications at the same time was expensive (once a company knew they wouldn't hire you they would usually return your paperwork so after a few months you could re-use copies and photos.

[Library Dragon]

I remember this from the 80s.  Resumes has marital status, hobbies, and lots of other non-essential information.  I was told it was to make us look like an individual with an interesting life.   

[Possum]

I did an online interview with someone once, and this guy was one of our top candidates for several slots.  I and the other two women doing the interview with me all thought that his application was stellar, his first, brief interview had been wonderful, and that he was what we were looking for. 

We met up in a chat room (this was before Skype, etc.) so we could all talk--or type, since it was online.  (The position was online, thus, interviewing online to see how he read.)

About five minutes into the interview, he interrupted what I was typing to blurt out that this was the first time he'd ever done an interview naked.

Yeah.  That ended *that* real quick.

[blarg314]

There is some spectacularly bad advice out there, so even if someone is trying to find out, they can be sent off in a direction that makes them look bad.

In university I got application advice from professors in my field. Our national professional conference had student workshops the day before the meeting started, covering things like applying for jobs and doing presentations, inside and outside academia. A career centre wouldn't have been particularly useful, because they wouldn't know the standards for my field.

For example - standard advice is to keep the CV to two pages, max. In my field, the first page or two would list details - name, citizenship (this is a practical detail for international applications), languages spoken, education, a list of relevant jobs you've held, a list of professional awards or honours.  You would then have sections for details of professional experience (committees you've sat on, supervision, teaching experience (including courses you've taught), management experience, invited talks you've given, recent conferences you made presentations at,  and technical expertise, depending on the type of job. Then a list of publications in refereed journals, in a standard format. A typical application would also include a summary of your previous research interests, and your future plans for projects, written in essay format, of a few pages in length. And a cover letter, of course. The total for a  junior position would be at least six pages, for a senior one could be up to twenty.

One the other end - I actually have done professional interviews in jeans, t-shirt and hiking boots (it wasn't a scheduled interview, more a chance meeting at a conference) and got a job offer.

[Amara]

About five minutes into the interview, he interrupted what I was typing to blurt out that this was the first time he'd ever done an interview naked.

I'm trying to imagine where he got that career advice from.