Author Topic: When people disipline your pets.  (Read 8072 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

fountainof

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 616
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2014, 02:45:04 PM »
I think it is inappropriate to discipline someone else's pet if the issue doesn't directly involve you (like the counters/bag stuff mentioned).  That said I think you can both discipline pets and kids when what they are doing affects you.  For example, if a child pulled my hair I would tell him or her no and if he/she wasn't letting go I would remove his/her hand myself.  I probably wouldn't smack the hand unless what was being done was extremely painful and the child would not release the grip.  Same for pets, would say no and gently push the pet off what is being done.  It is was high, like the back of my chair I would lift the pet to the ground.  However, if a pet bit me hard I would knock it off me, probably the same would happen with a child as instinctively you push something away.


Hmmmmm

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6252
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2014, 03:19:03 PM »
Like Toots, I also equate this with correcting someone else's child.  Unless the pet and/or child are in danger, you stay out of it.

I wouldn't like someone correcting my dogs or my children.  Stay out of it or go home!

I agree with this, except in a situation where the pet or child is bothering the guest - e.g. if a dog is jumping up on a guest / child is hitting them with a toy / cat is trying to walk on them   and the owner doesn't step in to stop that or check that the guest is OK with it, then it is not unreasonable for the guest to take steps of their own. Of course yelling or hitting isn't appropriate, but if the guest is not familiar with the pet/child they may speak more forcefully than is necessary.

I think this is still unreasonable.

See, I am having trouble wrapping my head around a situation where a hypothetical guest is being made uncomfortable by a cat climbing on the couch next to them (and possibly wanting to play or curl up in their lap) and that guest doesn't just get up and walk away.

Standing your ground and forcing a confrontation is a better option then removing yourself from the situation?   ???

I don't get it.

I'm a cat person and have two overly friendly cats. I would not expect my guests sitting on the sofa having a conversation to get up and move because my cats decided they wanted attention right then. Just like I wouldn't allow a child to interrupt a conversation because the child was demanding attention RIGHT NOW!. A guest in my house is free to push my pushy cats off their laps and then I'll get up and redirect the cats attention somewhere else or move it to a different room.

One of our cats prefers climbing onto your chest and tries to put her face right by your nose. Cat lovers find it charming at first but after a little while even they get tired of breathing in 4 inch pieces of fuzzy hair.

And my cats will respond to a sharp no. They may not mind it all the time or wait till my back is turned to try again, but they do understand the word or at least the inflection of your voice.

msulinski

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2014, 03:30:42 PM »
Good ideas from other posters already. I think dealing with it at the time with "please don't yell at my cat" or some variation that sounds normal to you is good.

One of my friends tapped my cat on the nose once. She climbed up onto the back of the couch and was sniffing his head. I didn't know he didn't like cats. I thought it was cute that she was trying to smooch him. Anyway he kept shaking his hand in front of her which made her try and play so she grabbed his hand with her paws. He tapped her on the nose and said "No!"

I was horrified. I said "don't hit her" and I got up, grabbed kitty, gave her a cuddle and put her on the couch next to me. He left after that and has not been back.

 I love cats. I have been owned by a cat and I have tapped her on the nose to get her to stop doing something. To be honest, I kind of feel sorry for your friend. Your cat was in what can be defined a his personal space. His hair, his hands. I would say the same thing if your baby was walking over your friend and they told the child not to. It might have been better for your friend to ask you to get your cat away from his hair. But I don't think what he did was necessarily all that egregious.

I don't find this all that bad either. If the person is unfamiliar with cats in general or even just with your cat, that person probably thought the cat was attacking him when she grabbed his hand in her paws. You probably should have intervened before it got to this point.

Mel the Redcap

  • Scheming Foreign Hussy!
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 838
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2014, 07:35:43 PM »
Not exactly a guest disciplining my cat, but maybe the guest was schooled by the cat?

A fellow once came to pick me up for a date and spent way too much berating me for having a cat (according to him, they're dirty, smelly, treacherous and dangerous.) He told me I'd have to get rid of my cat if I wanted to spend time with His Wonderfulness. He'd dropped his jacket on the couch, and Scarlett O'Hara, my calico Maine Coon cat, deliberately walked over and scratched over the jacket as if covering something in the litterbox. He had no idea how clearly and completely he'd been insulted in Feline. Scarlett was absolutely right about him, and that was our first and last date!

There wouldn't have been a first date if someone said that to me! :o
"Set aphasia to stun!"

jaybee21nz

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #64 on: January 06, 2014, 07:54:00 PM »
b] my cats listen to the people in this household because they know us.[/b] 

Wow!  What magic do you have?
 :)

PastryGoddess

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4500
    • My Image Portfolio and Store
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #65 on: January 06, 2014, 08:26:27 PM »
b] my cats listen to the people in this household because they know us.[/b] 

Wow!  What magic do you have?
 :)

Negative reinforcement in the moment helps.  We don't speak to them harshly very often and give them lots of love.  So when we are "mean" it seems to sink in. Spray bottles are also good for the initial training.  Once they learned where they weren't supposed to go, it only takes a look or a sharp no for them to veer away and start to wash their butt :)



MeowMixer

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 395
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2014, 10:08:09 AM »
Good ideas from other posters already. I think dealing with it at the time with "please don't yell at my cat" or some variation that sounds normal to you is good.

One of my friends tapped my cat on the nose once. She climbed up onto the back of the couch and was sniffing his head. I didn't know he didn't like cats. I thought it was cute that she was trying to smooch him. Anyway he kept shaking his hand in front of her which made her try and play so she grabbed his hand with her paws. He tapped her on the nose and said "No!"

I was horrified. I said "don't hit her" and I got up, grabbed kitty, gave her a cuddle and put her on the couch next to me. He left after that and has not been back.

 I love cats. I have been owned by a cat and I have tapped her on the nose to get her to stop doing something. To be honest, I kind of feel sorry for your friend. Your cat was in what can be defined a his personal space. His hair, his hands. I would say the same thing if your baby was walking over your friend and they told the child not to. It might have been better for your friend to ask you to get your cat away from his hair. But I don't think what he did was necessarily all that egregious.

I don't find this all that bad either. If the person is unfamiliar with cats in general or even just with your cat, that person probably thought the cat was attacking him when she grabbed his hand in her paws. You probably should have intervened before it got to this point.

I'm a cat person, owned at least one most of my life. The only reason I don't have one now is my hubby's allergic (and since that's hubby's only real flaw I guess I'll keep him).
That said there are some cats that scare me. My bff's cat 'owns' everything he sees. He's gotten better with age but back a few years ago if I came over no matter where I would sit he would jump on me, or beside me and get really in my face. The only place I was 'safe' was if I just stood in the middle of the room. Because I am a cat person I would pet him a couple of times, but no more than that because your hands are 'play things'. What I have learned from him (and other orange cats, I don't know why it is but I have had very non-positive interactions with orange cats) is that when they 'grab' onto your hand with their paws a good bite or at the very least claw marks are just around the corner. If your friend isn't a cat person to begin with he may have read it as 'I'm being attacked'. I feel kind of sorry for him. The shooing didn't work, feels attacked, retaliates by doing something physical. A former friend of mine's mom had to be hospitalized for three days after being bitten by a cat, so I can understand not wanting to be bitten by a cat.

As for the tap on the nose, I don't know. I could see how it's just an automatic reaction to being grabbed. I will bop my dog on the nose with my finger tips when he noses my food. It's not a pain thing, it's a grab his attention thing. He's not a smart dog. My other dog all you need to say is 'leave it' and she won't go near it. The mastiff on the other hand? I *know* he's not deaf, but the elevator does not service the top floors and if you don't distract him with a nose tap you'll end up with a drool sauce. *that* is the tap I have in my head. If it was a smack to cause pain then yes, I would be upset with that.

MindsEye

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1078
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2014, 10:25:48 AM »
This is all probably going to end up being a YMMV situation, with the particulars depending entirely on the host (and how they prefer that their guests interact with their pets) and the pets themselves.

For DH and I and our cats... both of our cats are rescues, and the younger one (who we have had for less then a year) came from an abusive situation.  We have been working very hard with her to re-socialize her and get her to trust people again.  Anyone who comes to our house knows that they may not displace them from areas they are allowed (e.g. the sofa and the easy chairs) and they may not raise their voices or their hands to our cats (not even a "tap" on the nose).  If they don't want to be near a cat, get up and move.  If the cat in question is sitting on them, gently lift the cat to the floor or stand slowly.  Or call to DH or myself to assist you.  Any disregarding of our rules regarding our cats will get the guest in question an escort out the door, because disregarding our rules could undo all of the progress that we have made with our little girl so far. 

Edited to add:  Because of the background of our cats and what we know they went through before we adopted them, DH and I have very very strong feelings about anyone but us disciplining our cats, and I realize that this is definitely a hot button issue for us.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 10:43:39 AM by MindsEye »

EllenS

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1368
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2014, 11:19:20 AM »
This is all probably going to end up being a YMMV situation, with the particulars depending entirely on the host (and how they prefer that their guests interact with their pets) and the pets themselves.

For DH and I and our cats... both of our cats are rescues, and the younger one (who we have had for less then a year) came from an abusive situation.  We have been working very hard with her to re-socialize her and get her to trust people again.  Anyone who comes to our house knows that they may not displace them from areas they are allowed (e.g. the sofa and the easy chairs) and they may not raise their voices or their hands to our cats (not even a "tap" on the nose).  If they don't want to be near a cat, get up and move.  If the cat in question is sitting on them, gently lift the cat to the floor or stand slowly.  Or call to DH or myself to assist you.  Any disregarding of our rules regarding our cats will get the guest in question an escort out the door, because disregarding our rules could undo all of the progress that we have made with our little girl so far. 

Edited to add:  Because of the background of our cats and what we know they went through before we adopted them, DH and I have very very strong feelings about anyone but us disciplining our cats, and I realize that this is definitely a hot button issue for us.

I think it's a really important part of your situation, that you discuss this with guests BEFORE they come over.  That makes all the difference.  Guests already know how your cats react and have specific tools. There was no indication in aussie-chick's post that she had specific parameters for what she expected guests to do in case of conflict or perceived conflict with the cat.

I don't think what a_c's guest did was unreasonable as the circumstances were described.

m2kbug

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1323
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2014, 12:17:57 PM »
I'm kind of wondering if these guests were (now) aware that you shoo the cat from the counter or table and were "helping" because you were distracted. 

I wouldn't normally scold another's pet like that unless they were getting into open food on the table or counter.  The best story I ever heard was watching a full turkey make its way out the doggy door via Pug.  They ordered pizza.  There are other situations where I will discipline an animal, like if they're jumping on me, getting into my plate, danger situations, but as a whole, I really just leave it alone or mention something to the owner - "Is it okay if he does that?" 


ladyknight1

  • Super Hero!
  • ****
  • Posts: 6793
  • Operating the logic hammer since 1987.
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2014, 12:28:00 PM »
I'm kind of wondering if these guests were (now) aware that you shoo the cat from the counter or table and were "helping" because you were distracted. 

I wouldn't normally scold another's pet like that unless they were getting into open food on the table or counter.  The best story I ever heard was watching a full turkey make its way out the doggy door via Pug.  They ordered pizza.  There are other situations where I will discipline an animal, like if they're jumping on me, getting into my plate, danger situations, but as a whole, I really just leave it alone or mention something to the owner - "Is it okay if he does that?"

Pretty much my choice as well. Same with children, if I see a young child digging in mommy's purse and mommy doesn't notice, then I will mention it to them. I will only scream or yell if someone is in grave danger.

I have noticed many people take it upon themselves to scold other people's pets and children for non-emergencies. I'm not sure where that comes from.

cb140

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 552
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2014, 01:37:02 PM »
This is all probably going to end up being a YMMV situation, with the particulars depending entirely on the host (and how they prefer that their guests interact with their pets) and the pets themselves.

For DH and I and our cats... both of our cats are rescues, and the younger one (who we have had for less then a year) came from an abusive situation.  We have been working very hard with her to re-socialize her and get her to trust people again.  Anyone who comes to our house knows that they may not displace them from areas they are allowed (e.g. the sofa and the easy chairs) and they may not raise their voices or their hands to our cats (not even a "tap" on the nose).  If they don't want to be near a cat, get up and move.  If the cat in question is sitting on them, gently lift the cat to the floor or stand slowly.  Or call to DH or myself to assist you.  Any disregarding of our rules regarding our cats will get the guest in question an escort out the door, because disregarding our rules could undo all of the progress that we have made with our little girl so far. 

Edited to add:  Because of the background of our cats and what we know they went through before we adopted them, DH and I have very very strong feelings about anyone but us disciplining our cats, and I realize that this is definitely a hot button issue for us.

I think this really explains why you feel so strongly, and I quite understand. Before this, I was thinking that you were being a little over protective, and that no cat ever came to harm from being tapped on the nose. But a cat recovering from an abusive situation - quite different. I think you probably should explain this to your guests in advance though. I still don't think tapping a cat on the nose for, eg, it grabbing your hand with its paws is outlandish behaviour. Your poor little kitty - I hope she continues to make a good recovery.

Our beautiful Russian Blue has been pampered all of her eleven years, and she can still be a madam at times, specializing in the swift bite when she decides she's had enough cuddling, even though SHE requested the cuddle in the first place. Our warning to visitors is always just to stick to her head, chin and ears which she adores.  We warn that she might bite if they take a risk with petting her body. If a guest were to get bitten, to be honest I'd quite excuse a bop on the nose or throwing her on the floor. That cat can *hurt*!

Micah

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 551
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2014, 05:43:56 PM »
All three of our cats do as they're told, or rather two of them do. The kitten is getting there. I trained them roughly the same as I do my dogs (not a cat person, so just relied on years of dog training). It seems to have worked. They get 'off' when told, stop playing with things they're not allowed when told and go 'out' when told. Magic, the oldest one will swear at me profusely when ordered to do something, but he does it. Seriously, I've had guests go into fits of laughter.
Me: "Magic!"
Magic: "Mrroooowww!"
Me: "Magic! Out!"
Magic: "Mreeew, mrrrp MROOOOOOOW!" And he stalks outside, tail lashing, muttering under his breath.

Disciplining other people's dogs is a good way to potentially get bitten. You're not part of their pack and you're in their territory. A dog is perfectly within its rights to object to authority they don't recognise. If a dog jumps on me, I tend to look to the owner for direction. The owner will either tell the dog themselves, or just say, "Tell Fido to get down when he does that." Fortunately pretty well everyone I know with dogs is an experienced owner with well trained pets. I've never really had to deal with badly behaved dogs when visiting, or cats for that matter.
Mulder: "So...Lunch?"
Scully: "Mulder, toads just fell from the sky!"
Mulder: "Maybe their parachutes didn't open."

MrsVandy

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 524
  • Formally futurelillady
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #73 on: January 07, 2014, 08:58:42 PM »
We have 3 cats. All 3 know the rules and listen, although they do mouth back  ;). We have several close friends who know the rules for our cats. If they catch them doing something they aren't supposed to be doing they will tell them not to. They don't yell at my cats, its more of a "You know your not allowed on the counters get down please." No one has ever yelled at my cats, but I'm sure it would scare me more then the cats!

I was recently at our friends house and they just got a new kitten.  I know my friends are trying to train him to not use furniture for scratching. During the movie he went for the couch, thinking no one was looking. I asked him "Kitten should you be doing that?" friend scolded her kitten. But in this case I knew the house rules and never raised my voice or physically touched the kitten, I simply made the owner aware that he was misbehaving.

I think its okay to make the owner aware that there animal is misbehaving, provided you actually know the rules and never yell or touch the animal.




LadyStormwing

  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Re: When people disipline your pets.
« Reply #74 on: January 07, 2014, 11:00:19 PM »
Wow, I think I really lucked out with my cat. He was technically your average housecat, but on the large side, weighing in at about 16lbs most of his life. He was also incredibly well-mannered. Never climbed, never jumped, and if he did start to get into trouble, all we had to do was use our "teacher" voices and he'd give us that smirking cat look and knock off whatever it was he was doing. The only time we had to isolate him was when we had large crowds over - he didn't like them. I miss that cat something fierce. He just passed in September at the ripe age of 15.

That said, I would have less-than-gently escorted anyone who raised a voice or hand to my cat out the door and to the sidewalk. Never in a million years would I even think of doing the same to anyone else's animal, with the singular exception of a large dog jumping on me. (I'm on the very petite side and can be knocked over easily, so if any medium- to large-sized dog gets too enthusiastic in his greeting and the owner doesn't immediately stop it, I have to or risk falling over.) Usually a simple but firm, "No, down." with one knee raised (not kicking or kneeing them, just blocking) is enough, and then praising them with a greeting when the dog responds is more than enough.