Author Topic: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...  (Read 7160 times)

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Marbles

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2014, 07:03:27 PM »
I would not expect someone to put their pet in another room, but I would absolutely expect that the animal be kept off of me.  I love animals, and I have pets, and I would never let a pet get on someone's lap without their express permission.  If your dog or cat gets on my lap or touches my face, and I do not want it there, it is going to get gently moved away.
This. So very much this.

I have a friend who has a new german shepherd puppy (Pup is ~6 months old currently). On one visit to their home, I was sitting on the floor next to my 4yo son, who was on a chair, to show him how to comfortably interact with a frisky puppy. (He was initially terrified, so this was Big Progress.) Pup came around and jumped on me from behind. I put her down on the ground. Friend said "Oh, she's allowed to do that."  ::) No. She is not allowed to jump on me. Not ever. Let her play dominance games with you. I get to choose whether I want to play that way.

Pup was better about jumping the last time I visited. Now she "wants to feel everything with her mouth." She doesn't bite, but I'm sure a whole lot of people who are not afraid of dogs find it disconcerting to have their hands engulfed by her mouth.

GreenEyedHawk

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2014, 07:28:27 PM »
If one of my pets bothers a guest, I will of course control them.  I also have no objection to anyone telling my dogs (firmly but without screaming or yelling or hitting) to get off, or to shoo them off the couch.  If one of my cats hops into a guest's lap and they are not interested in having a lap-cat, I have no problem with them just lifting the cat down and putting them back on the floor.  There's no need to be rough or for hitting, though a guest may find themselves relocating the same cat from their lap a couple times until kitty gets the message.

I will move a cat from a chair so a person can sit there, or shoo a dog off the couch. In the case of the OP with the room mate's dog, I wouldn't have seen any problem with the guest simply picking the dog up and putting him back down on the floor or beside them on the couch rather than in their lap or in their face.

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EllenS

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2014, 08:32:28 PM »
However, if an animal bites me unprovoked, I cannot predict what my instinctive reaction may be.  I have been attacked by a host's animals both waking and while asleep.  Those animals became briefly airborne.  I didn't mean to, would never do such a thing willfully, and really wish it had not happened, but sudden pain and bleeding tend to trigger a reflex action of get-bity-thing-off.

As the owner of a biter, I would completely understand your reaction, as long as you were following my directions on how to deal with Miss Hissy Pants and obeyed her signals which indicate that she's likely to bite.  And I don't let my cats sleep with me; I keep them out of both my bedroom and my spare bedroom at all times, keeping the doors closed.  So if you left the door open and got attacked in the middle of the night, I would be a little upset with you.

The door was not only closed, but (I thought) locked.  Host did not tell me that the lock was broken and Kitty knew how to get the door open.
I am still not sure how I could have been provoking a cat while I was sound asleep? Or how I am supposed to control my arms flailing when I am being clawed while unconscious?

EllenS

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2014, 08:43:56 PM »
In any event, I really do like animals.  I like it when dogs or cats sniff, ask for pats, walk around my ankles, etc.  I will give pats till the cows come home. I don't mind face licking if I have approached the dog, rather than the dog jumping on me.  I will usually initiate greeting a household animal, if it is receptive.

I do not like having my crotch sniffed, but I know that is normal greeting behavior and know how to gently blockade it/move away. (Just like having a baby go for "nursies" is normal behavior - I politely blockade that too.)

Dogs jumping on a human while they are sitting down is not affection.  It is dominance behavior.  I do not allow myself to be dominated, or humped on, or any other type of aggressive or invasive behavior.  For one thing, it is not safe in the long run.  If the dog starts thinking I am submissive to it, we are going to have a real problem when it decides I am challenging it's supremacy.  And if a host also believes fellow humans should come below the dog in the pack order, I am better off out of that person's house.

Outdoor Girl

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2014, 08:58:59 PM »
However, if an animal bites me unprovoked, I cannot predict what my instinctive reaction may be.  I have been attacked by a host's animals both waking and while asleep.  Those animals became briefly airborne.  I didn't mean to, would never do such a thing willfully, and really wish it had not happened, but sudden pain and bleeding tend to trigger a reflex action of get-bity-thing-off.

As the owner of a biter, I would completely understand your reaction, as long as you were following my directions on how to deal with Miss Hissy Pants and obeyed her signals which indicate that she's likely to bite.  And I don't let my cats sleep with me; I keep them out of both my bedroom and my spare bedroom at all times, keeping the doors closed.  So if you left the door open and got attacked in the middle of the night, I would be a little upset with you.

The door was not only closed, but (I thought) locked.  Host did not tell me that the lock was broken and Kitty knew how to get the door open.
I am still not sure how I could have been provoking a cat while I was sound asleep? Or how I am supposed to control my arms flailing when I am being clawed while unconscious?

Oh, no.  In a case that like that, I would totally not blame you at all!  I meant a situation where my guest was informed to keep the door closed and chose not to close the door.
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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2014, 09:18:42 PM »
My house is as much my pets as it is mine.  This is their home. Our friends know it and if they don't like my two small dogs then they don't have to visit.  They come with the territory. 

I will try to not let them jump up but if a guest is sitting on the couch where the dog can jump any other time it is fair game. 

My dogs will never be relegated to another room.  I will opt not to invite someone who is not a dog lover over displacing my dogs.  Period.

You come to my house, be prepared for it to be dog friendly.

I think with the exception of the bolded paragraph, I could have written your post in reference to my children. But, if my children were to start jumping on my guests, I would do more than try to stop them. I would succeed in stopping them and discipline them if they continued. Your house can be dog friendly without you allowing your dogs to jump on people who don't want them to.

It is impossible to stop them from wanting to be on the couch where they can be all other times.  I do not allow my dogs to jump all over people but I do not stop them from jumping on the couch and sitting there while a guest does.  Anyone coming to my home knows I have dogs.  They are small dogs so it's not as if it is a 50 pound dog jumping all over someone.  It is my dog wanting to share the couch. 


MommySloth

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2014, 09:20:31 PM »
My in-laws have MANY pets in their house and will not lift one finger to stop them from jumping on me (doesn't matter where I'm sitting or even if I'm standing) or, if we are having a meal, from jumping up on the table to get at my dinner. Instead, they laugh at me and how uncomfortable I am and how I "clearly don't like animals." I love animals, just not theirs, and I choose not to visit as often (for numerous reasons, this is just one among many, FWIW).

sparksals

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2014, 09:22:41 PM »
I would not expect someone to put their pet in another room, but I would absolutely expect that the animal be kept off of me.  I love animals, and I have pets, and I would never let a pet get on someone's lap without their express permission.  If your dog or cat gets on my lap or touches my face, and I do not want it there, it is going to get gently moved away.
This. So very much this.

I have a friend who has a new german shepherd puppy (Pup is ~6 months old currently). On one visit to their home, I was sitting on the floor next to my 4yo son, who was on a chair, to show him how to comfortably interact with a frisky puppy. (He was initially terrified, so this was Big Progress.) Pup came around and jumped on me from behind. I put her down on the ground. Friend said "Oh, she's allowed to do that."  ::) No. She is not allowed to jump on me. Not ever. Let her play dominance games with you. I get to choose whether I want to play that way.

Pup was better about jumping the last time I visited. Now she "wants to feel everything with her mouth." She doesn't bite, but I'm sure a whole lot of people who are not afraid of dogs find it disconcerting to have their hands engulfed by her mouth.

You can choose to not want a dog to don that but had you done that to my dog in my home you would be escorted out.  It is not your place to physically restrain someone else's dog especially in their home. 

Millionaire Maria

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2014, 09:26:15 PM »
My house is as much my pets as it is mine.  This is their home. Our friends know it and if they don't like my two small dogs then they don't have to visit.  They come with the territory. 

I will try to not let them jump up but if a guest is sitting on the couch where the dog can jump any other time it is fair game. 

My dogs will never be relegated to another room.  I will opt not to invite someone who is not a dog lover over displacing my dogs.  Period.

You come to my house, be prepared for it to be dog friendly.

I think with the exception of the bolded paragraph, I could have written your post in reference to my children. But, if my children were to start jumping on my guests, I would do more than try to stop them. I would succeed in stopping them and discipline them if they continued. Your house can be dog friendly without you allowing your dogs to jump on people who don't want them to.

It is impossible to stop them from wanting to be on the couch where they can be all other times.  I do not allow my dogs to jump all over people but I do not stop them from jumping on the couch and sitting there while a guest does.  Anyone coming to my home knows I have dogs.  They are small dogs so it's not as if it is a 50 pound dog jumping all over someone.  It is my dog wanting to share the couch.

Oh, I think it's fine for them to be on the couch with guests! I thought you meant they were jumping on laps. For sure it's not okay for guests to tell your dogs to get off the couch, just like it would be rude to tell my children they couldn't sit on the couch.
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Millionaire Maria

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2014, 09:29:11 PM »
I would not expect someone to put their pet in another room, but I would absolutely expect that the animal be kept off of me.  I love animals, and I have pets, and I would never let a pet get on someone's lap without their express permission.  If your dog or cat gets on my lap or touches my face, and I do not want it there, it is going to get gently moved away.
This. So very much this.

I have a friend who has a new german shepherd puppy (Pup is ~6 months old currently). On one visit to their home, I was sitting on the floor next to my 4yo son, who was on a chair, to show him how to comfortably interact with a frisky puppy. (He was initially terrified, so this was Big Progress.) Pup came around and jumped on me from behind. I put her down on the ground. Friend said "Oh, she's allowed to do that."  ::) No. She is not allowed to jump on me. Not ever. Let her play dominance games with you. I get to choose whether I want to play that way.

Pup was better about jumping the last time I visited. Now she "wants to feel everything with her mouth." She doesn't bite, but I'm sure a whole lot of people who are not afraid of dogs find it disconcerting to have their hands engulfed by her mouth.

You can choose to not want a dog to don that but had you done that to my dog in my home you would be escorted out.  It is not your place to physically restrain someone else's dog especially in their home.

In someone's home or not, any person has the right to physically restrain an animal that is jumping them from behind.

People everywhere enjoy believing in things they know are not true. It spares them the ordeal of thinking for themselves and taking responsibility for what they know. –Brooks Atkinson

Mel the Redcap

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2014, 09:29:46 PM »
I would not expect someone to put their pet in another room, but I would absolutely expect that the animal be kept off of me.  I love animals, and I have pets, and I would never let a pet get on someone's lap without their express permission.  If your dog or cat gets on my lap or touches my face, and I do not want it there, it is going to get gently moved away.
This. So very much this.

I have a friend who has a new german shepherd puppy (Pup is ~6 months old currently). On one visit to their home, I was sitting on the floor next to my 4yo son, who was on a chair, to show him how to comfortably interact with a frisky puppy. (He was initially terrified, so this was Big Progress.) Pup came around and jumped on me from behind. I put her down on the ground. Friend said "Oh, she's allowed to do that."  ::) No. She is not allowed to jump on me. Not ever. Let her play dominance games with you. I get to choose whether I want to play that way.

Pup was better about jumping the last time I visited. Now she "wants to feel everything with her mouth." She doesn't bite, but I'm sure a whole lot of people who are not afraid of dogs find it disconcerting to have their hands engulfed by her mouth.

You can choose to not want a dog to don that but had you done that to my dog in my home you would be escorted out.  It is not your place to physically restrain someone else's dog especially in their home.

I read "put her down on the ground" as meaning that Marbles shifted the dog off her self and onto the floor, presumably gently. I think you might be reading it as if Marbles rolled the dog onto her back and held her down, in a 'showing dominance' type of way, which I agree would be wrong unless that's how you normally disciplined your dog and you'd explained how and when to do it. If you read it the way I did, though, and then read your comment, it sounds like you'd kick somebody out of your home for objecting even mildly to your dog leaping all over them, which I'm sure wasn't your intent. Clarifications needed all round, maybe? ;)
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GreenEyedHawk

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2014, 09:40:37 PM »
I would not expect someone to put their pet in another room, but I would absolutely expect that the animal be kept off of me.  I love animals, and I have pets, and I would never let a pet get on someone's lap without their express permission.  If your dog or cat gets on my lap or touches my face, and I do not want it there, it is going to get gently moved away.
This. So very much this.

I have a friend who has a new german shepherd puppy (Pup is ~6 months old currently). On one visit to their home, I was sitting on the floor next to my 4yo son, who was on a chair, to show him how to comfortably interact with a frisky puppy. (He was initially terrified, so this was Big Progress.) Pup came around and jumped on me from behind. I put her down on the ground. Friend said "Oh, she's allowed to do that."  ::) No. She is not allowed to jump on me. Not ever. Let her play dominance games with you. I get to choose whether I want to play that way.

Pup was better about jumping the last time I visited. Now she "wants to feel everything with her mouth." She doesn't bite, but I'm sure a whole lot of people who are not afraid of dogs find it disconcerting to have their hands engulfed by her mouth.

You can choose to not want a dog to don that but had you done that to my dog in my home you would be escorted out.  It is not your place to physically restrain someone else's dog especially in their home.

I read "put her down on the ground" as meaning that Marbles shifted the dog off her self and onto the floor, presumably gently. I think you might be reading it as if Marbles rolled the dog onto her back and held her down, in a 'showing dominance' type of way, which I agree would be wrong unless that's how you normally disciplined your dog and you'd explained how and when to do it. If you read it the way I did, though, and then read your comment, it sounds like you'd kick somebody out of your home for objecting even mildly to your dog leaping all over them, which I'm sure wasn't your intent. Clarifications needed all round, maybe? ;)

Yes, I need some clarification on this too.
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Marbles

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2014, 10:13:50 PM »
Correct. I shifted her to the floor gently. I did hold her there for just a few seconds to make sure she knew I was done and not starting a "jump on Marbles and be put on the floor" game. Then I let her up.

Friend is very good about restraining Pup around my and others' kids and around their own cats. However, if it came up, I have no compunctions about restraining a dog who is being aggressive, affectionately or otherwise. I won't injure an animal, but I won't allow myself or others to be injured either.

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2014, 10:15:57 PM »
In light of the clarification, I wouldn't have an issue with this.  If you removed one of my dogs from jumping on you and held them so they had "four on the floor", I wouldn't have a problem.
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sparksals

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Re: S/O unwanted pet discipline - guests vs. pets...
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2014, 10:30:11 PM »
My house is as much my pets as it is mine.  This is their home. Our friends know it and if they don't like my two small dogs then they don't have to visit.  They come with the territory. 

I will try to not let them jump up but if a guest is sitting on the couch where the dog can jump any other time it is fair game. 

My dogs will never be relegated to another room.  I will opt not to invite someone who is not a dog lover over displacing my dogs.  Period.

You come to my house, be prepared for it to be dog friendly.

I think with the exception of the bolded paragraph, I could have written your post in reference to my children. But, if my children were to start jumping on my guests, I would do more than try to stop them. I would succeed in stopping them and discipline them if they continued. Your house can be dog friendly without you allowing your dogs to jump on people who don't want them to.

It is impossible to stop them from wanting to be on the couch where they can be all other times.  I do not allow my dogs to jump all over people but I do not stop them from jumping on the couch and sitting there while a guest does.  Anyone coming to my home knows I have dogs.  They are small dogs so it's not as if it is a 50 pound dog jumping all over someone.  It is my dog wanting to share the couch.

Oh, I think it's fine for them to be on the couch with guests! I thought you meant they were jumping on laps. For sure it's not okay for guests to tell your dogs to get off the couch, just like it would be rude to tell my children they couldn't sit on the couch.


Well, they might try to jump on the lap.  I wouldn't allow that if someone doesn't want it.  But doesn't stop them from trying.  I would not take kindly to someone touching my dog in any way other than a gentle manner... gently guiding away is fine.  Restraining absolutely not.