Author Topic: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down  (Read 6058 times)

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jaxsue

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2014, 12:44:25 PM »
I immediately thought that the problem was Boss and the update reinforces my opinion. I don't normally jump to sexism but this seems like a pretty good example.

I was going to say the same thing.  Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing.

ITA. It also sounds very patronizing to me.

EllenS

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2014, 08:43:45 PM »
I immediately thought that the problem was Boss and the update reinforces my opinion. I don't normally jump to sexism but this seems like a pretty good example.

I was going to say the same thing.  Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing.

ITA. It also sounds very patronizing to me.

I just don't get that.  I think it is unbelievably patronizing to call direct, blunt speech "sexist" or "a problem".  I am far more direct and blunt, especially in work situations, than many men I know.  And I have more than once had to call men's attention away from side conversations to focus on a meeting.

It is also patronizing to assume that a thin skin is a typically female trait, or that women in work situations are always jealous of each other or trying to sabotage each other.

Of all the comments on this thread, I think the boss saying "Ladies" was one of the least sexist things said.

LifeOnPluto

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2014, 10:02:27 PM »
I immediately thought that the problem was Boss and the update reinforces my opinion. I don't normally jump to sexism but this seems like a pretty good example.

I was going to say the same thing.  Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing.

ITA. It also sounds very patronizing to me.

I just don't get that.  I think it is unbelievably patronizing to call direct, blunt speech "sexist" or "a problem".  I am far more direct and blunt, especially in work situations, than many men I know.  And I have more than once had to call men's attention away from side conversations to focus on a meeting.

It is also patronizing to assume that a thin skin is a typically female trait, or that women in work situations are always jealous of each other or trying to sabotage each other.

Of all the comments on this thread, I think the boss saying "Ladies" was one of the least sexist things said.

I agree with the bolded, but I think the issue here is that the Boss is not using direct and blunt speech whenever the male employees chat about other non-work topics. It's only when the females talk about fashion that he objects.

sammycat

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2014, 10:22:55 PM »
I immediately thought that the problem was Boss and the update reinforces my opinion. I don't normally jump to sexism but this seems like a pretty good example.

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that.

Another Sarah

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2014, 05:45:33 AM »
I immediately thought that the problem was Boss and the update reinforces my opinion. I don't normally jump to sexism but this seems like a pretty good example.

I was going to say the same thing.  Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing.

ITA. It also sounds very patronizing to me.

I just don't get that.  I think it is unbelievably patronizing to call direct, blunt speech "sexist" or "a problem".  I am far more direct and blunt, especially in work situations, than many men I know.  And I have more than once had to call men's attention away from side conversations to focus on a meeting.

It is also patronizing to assume that a thin skin is a typically female trait, or that women in work situations are always jealous of each other or trying to sabotage each other.

Of all the comments on this thread, I think the boss saying "Ladies" was one of the least sexist things said.

I agree with the bolded - but "not very sexist" doesn't equal "not sexist" - I said I thought this might be boss's problem because OP's description made it clear this was two shoe related comments and then back to work. Boss waded in unnecessarily to break up a conversation that wasn't inappropriate. That's not being blunt, that's not paying attention to what's actually happening and assuming the girls are gossiping.

Sexist? Not industrial tribunal sexist, but yeah, there's a touch of "women-can't-focus-in-the-workplace" attitude there. OP needs to exercise caution round her boss and make sure he sees her as focussing on work.

Hmmmmm

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2014, 12:22:57 PM »
I immediately thought that the problem was Boss and the update reinforces my opinion. I don't normally jump to sexism but this seems like a pretty good example.

I was going to say the same thing.  Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing.

ITA. It also sounds very patronizing to me.

Well, I hope not everyone feels it is sexist or patronizing. I use "Ladies" frequently when speeking to a group of all women and I'm a woman.

I actually work in a male dominated field for a male dominated industry. In my department we ended up with a high proportion of women in management and director level roles. We like using the greeting "Hello, Ladies" as we have no need to refer to each other as "guys".

Mikayla

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2014, 04:43:59 PM »
I'm another one who is generally cautious about gender bias claims, but there's a context here that makes it more bothersome.  Heck, you can go back to the OP and the other woman's strange assertion right off the bat that she's a fashionista.  Even that could be feeding into it.  If boss is assuming the OP is another fashionista, and/or he's stereotyping that all ladies dig convos about shoes, and men talk about real things like cars and football, this stuff can add up.  And then "ladies" becomes something else.

artk2002

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2014, 12:48:57 PM »
Well, I hope not everyone feels it is sexist or patronizing. I use "Ladies" frequently when speeking to a group of all women and I'm a woman.

I actually work in a male dominated field for a male dominated industry. In my department we ended up with a high proportion of women in management and director level roles. We like using the greeting "Hello, Ladies" as we have no need to refer to each other as "guys".

Nobody is claiming that the word "Ladies" is sexist and patronizing by itself, so you're arguing against a straw man here. As Mikayla and others have pointed out, it's the context that makes the use of the word suspect. It's still not conclusive but it's enough to make one look more deeply. It may be the normal mode, as it is in your office, but it may be something else.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain

Hmmmmm

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2014, 02:40:38 PM »
Well, I hope not everyone feels it is sexist or patronizing. I use "Ladies" frequently when speeking to a group of all women and I'm a woman.

I actually work in a male dominated field for a male dominated industry. In my department we ended up with a high proportion of women in management and director level roles. We like using the greeting "Hello, Ladies" as we have no need to refer to each other as "guys".

Nobody is claiming that the word "Ladies" is sexist and patronizing by itself, so you're arguing against a straw man here. As Mikayla and others have pointed out, it's the context that makes the use of the word suspect. It's still not conclusive but it's enough to make one look more deeply. It may be the normal mode, as it is in your office, but it may be something else.

I was responding to Betlenut who said:  "Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing."

So I'm not sure why you feel I'm arguing against a strawman.

artk2002

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Re: Getting scolded because of a conversation I'm trying to shut down
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2014, 02:44:25 PM »
Well, I hope not everyone feels it is sexist or patronizing. I use "Ladies" frequently when speeking to a group of all women and I'm a woman.

I actually work in a male dominated field for a male dominated industry. In my department we ended up with a high proportion of women in management and director level roles. We like using the greeting "Hello, Ladies" as we have no need to refer to each other as "guys".

Nobody is claiming that the word "Ladies" is sexist and patronizing by itself, so you're arguing against a straw man here. As Mikayla and others have pointed out, it's the context that makes the use of the word suspect. It's still not conclusive but it's enough to make one look more deeply. It may be the normal mode, as it is in your office, but it may be something else.

I was responding to Betlenut who said:  "Anytime someone uses the word "Ladies" it is patronizing."

So I'm not sure why you feel I'm arguing against a strawman.

Sorry. I missed Belenut's post.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -Mark Twain