Author Topic: That kinda hurt my feelings...  (Read 10794 times)

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petal

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2014, 11:11:00 PM »
FYI, The US national Arc organization has not used the word "retarded" in its name since 1992. Source: http://www.thearc.org/page.aspx?pid=2344

thanks for that link.  I went and had a look at it.  I think my favourite line from them is

"We strongly believe the only 'r-word' that should be used when referring to people with intellectual and developmental disabilities is Respect."

m2kbug

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2014, 11:28:20 PM »
Baglady, I had read that "mentally retarded" replaced words that had become derogatory, I just didn't know what those original words were.  I was reading this article and was wondering, what the heck, you say it replaced words, but you don't say what those words were?  I tried some Google searches, but came up empty.  You cleared that up for me.  Thanks! 

DSM-V (newest version) has completely eliminated the "retarded" diagnosis in favor of intellectual disability or intellectual developmental disorder.  I think ICD still uses it, but I think the term is on its way out the door with a newer version.  I run into this term quite regularly with my work, so I'm just kinda used to it in a professional capacity.  I think, as offensive or unpleasant as the word may be, when used in proper context, it's important to remember it is not being used as a slur or derogatory and try not to get upset about it.  I would certainly offer a correction on proper terminology, however.   

Open mouth, insert foot...yep...easy to do and hard not to be hurt by it. 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 11:34:31 PM by m2kbug »

cicero

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2014, 02:48:56 AM »
unless you have a background story with this friend, it sounds to me like the issue is that you are sad/upset/worried about your grandson. your friend may have used the wrong "term" (though, based on your OP it sounds like she was taking her cues from *you*), but the *sentiment* is actually valid - she is saying that *not matter what*, acceptance is a big step that needs to happen here.

Again, I totally understand you - i remember when people were trying to hint/say to me that my son has problems and i wouldn't listen - not because i didn't already suspect, but it was hard to have it verified. a big step for me vis a vis my son was the acceptance - no matter *what* the issue *is* - I love and accept him unconditionally.

is it sad, frustrating, worrisome? of course it is. but I don't *shoot the messenger* or anyone who is trying to help, albeit clumsily.  (and again, I don't know if your friend was not ok here if you yourself used that term).

Call her, meet her for coffee, and talk.

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Redneck Gravy

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2014, 11:55:32 AM »
OP here - I am sorry everyone, I started a post and then had to take off yesterday for other things.

Let's forget about the word retarded that my friend used, I used it first and my DD before that.  I spent several years volunteering with Special Olympics (just because I think that is a worthwhile project - no real personal connection at all).  I hate the word ret*rd and retarded. 

The issue really is the tone my friend took - sorta of "so whatish", it is what it is. 

I know it is what it is darn it!  That's not what I was expecting to hear from her.  This is my best friend for over 30 years, I expected something different.     

We spent some of the holidays with her family so I felt like she had just gotten to spend some time with my grand boys as I had her grand daughter and what I wanted to hear was more of a supportive tone.  Like, maybe she had just seen him and didn't notice anything unusual.

Now is that a little more clear?  I had an expectation of more support.  I didn't get what I expected - not saying she won't be more supportive next time we chat or that she was just having a bad day...just that I expected a little more positive commentary.  Not that I expected her to dismiss it with, well obviously he isn't retarded, doctors are so stupid, either. 

I think I expected her to say why do they think that?  I didn't notice anything different.  He isn't talking a lot yet - well, geez he's only 18 months old, if he were 3 I'd be worried, etc.? Is his brother answering for him every time you ask him a question, you know my little brother nearly didn't learn to talk because every time someone asked him something little sis would answer, we finally had to shut her up so he COULD talk.  I'm sorry this has upset you, I wouldn't panic just yet.  Let's have coffee Tuesday and talk some more about it...

I didn't want the word retarded to be a red herring in all of this, sorry.

     

 

perpetua

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2014, 12:01:34 PM »
Now is that a little more clear?  I had an expectation of more support.  I didn't get what I expected - not saying she won't be more supportive next time we chat or that she was just having a bad day...just that I expected a little more positive commentary.  Not that I expected her to dismiss it with, well obviously he isn't retarded, doctors are so stupid, either. 

I think I expected her to say why do they think that?  I didn't notice anything different.  He isn't talking a lot yet - well, geez he's only 18 months old, if he were 3 I'd be worried, etc.? Is his brother answering for him every time you ask him a question, you know my little brother nearly didn't learn to talk because every time someone asked him something little sis would answer, we finally had to shut her up so he COULD talk.  I'm sorry this has upset you, I wouldn't panic just yet.  Let's have coffee Tuesday and talk some more about it...

I think basically the problem therefore is that you expected her to follow some kind of script you had in your head of how you wanted the conversation to go. And people don't tend to do that. And she didn't. I don't think you can hold that against her.

amylouky

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2014, 12:12:04 PM »
I know I'm making huge assumptions here because you only posted a few sentences of the situation, but..
It kind of reads to me like maybe she was responding to your concern about your DD fearing her son being retarded, rather than the concerns about his development (if that makes sense?).  And that maybe she was put off a little herself by the use of the word and was a little short due to that.

I do think you can't really be angry about her use of the word, since you used it first. And I'd probably give her a pass on being less than supportive. She wasn't rude, and I don't really see her comments as dismissive, I just think she maybe didn't pick up on the type of support you were looking for. Which isn't a crime.

Redneck Gravy

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2014, 12:23:12 PM »
Exactly - she didn't read my mind and give me the type of support I was expecting.

And yet, she didn't give me ANY!


perpetua

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2014, 12:26:15 PM »
Exactly - she didn't read my mind and give me the type of support I was expecting.

And yet, she didn't give me ANY!

Well, in your friend's defence, going by your OP you didn't ask for any. You said your daughter was afraid that he might have an issue. And her answer was geared towards your daughter. So, she answered the question you threw out. You didn't actually ask in a way that indicated *you* needed support with the issue.

Julsie

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2014, 12:27:21 PM »
(((Redneck Gravy)))  I'm sorry that you're worried about your dear little grandson.  I'm sure that he is a cutie pie and much loved by everyone who knows him.  He's a lucky little guy to have parents and grandparents eager to support him in any way he needs.

I highly recommend Thomas Sowell's book "Late Talkers".  http://www.amazon.com/Late-Talking-Children-Thomas-Sowell-ebook/dp/B00994UJOA/ref=sr_1_32?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390324917&sr=1-32&keywords=thomas+sowell

In many cases of children who speak late it's because they come from a family with talents in math or music.  It's just how their brains are wired.

TurtleDove

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2014, 12:44:12 PM »
I think, too, that we often say people shouldn't opine on medical issues unless they are the particular person's actual doctor. I don't see how the friend could have been supportive in the way the OP expected without being considered rude and overbearing and know it all and dismissive of actual doctor's opinions. Hugs, OP, but please do not borrow trouble by being angry with your friend. Again, I think she was very supportive.

cicero

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2014, 12:58:01 PM »
OP here - I am sorry everyone, I started a post and then had to take off yesterday for other things.

Let's forget about the word retarded that my friend used, I used it first and my DD before that.  I spent several years volunteering with Special Olympics (just because I think that is a worthwhile project - no real personal connection at all).  I hate the word ret*rd and retarded. 

The issue really is the tone my friend took - sorta of "so whatish", it is what it is. 

I know it is what it is darn it!  That's not what I was expecting to hear from her.  This is my best friend for over 30 years, I expected something different.     

We spent some of the holidays with her family so I felt like she had just gotten to spend some time with my grand boys as I had her grand daughter and what I wanted to hear was more of a supportive tone.  Like, maybe she had just seen him and didn't notice anything unusual.

Now is that a little more clear?  I had an expectation of more support.  I didn't get what I expected - not saying she won't be more supportive next time we chat or that she was just having a bad day...just that I expected a little more positive commentary.  Not that I expected her to dismiss it with, well obviously he isn't retarded, doctors are so stupid, either. 

I think I expected her to say why do they think that?  I didn't notice anything different.  He isn't talking a lot yet - well, geez he's only 18 months old, if he were 3 I'd be worried, etc.? Is his brother answering for him every time you ask him a question, you know my little brother nearly didn't learn to talk because every time someone asked him something little sis would answer, we finally had to shut her up so he COULD talk.  I'm sorry this has upset you, I wouldn't panic just yet.  Let's have coffee Tuesday and talk some more about it...

I didn't want the word retarded to be a red herring in all of this, sorry.

     
I get what you are saying.

I understand what you WANT.

but I think you are being somewhat unfair and unrealistic. you are upset at your friend for not "doing what i want her to do even if it doesn't make sense and even if i never said anything".

I know it's very hard to accept and believe. But if your friend said what she said, and not "what?!? are you nuts?!?! your grandson is fine!", then maybe *whatever it is* is noticeable to people outside the family.

and really, if she had said "what are you talking about? your grandson is fine" - would *that* really be a good, true and supportive friend? because i think it takes a lot of guts to stand up to a grandma and say "i didn't really want to say anything, but i did notice A nad B and i'm glad they're having it checked out" ( i know she didn't actually say THAT but i bet that's what she is thinking).

I hope you can find a way to get back in touch with her and move on.

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turnip

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2014, 01:08:19 PM »
When we were struggling with DS's diagnosis, my dad said something to me like "You can't change who he is."

And I was (internally) furious - why were we doing 30 hours of therapy a week?  Why were we running to every specialist in town?  Of _course_ we were trying to change him, we were trying to make him _better_ than he would have been otherwise.

But you know - first, my dad worked with the SN community for 20 years so he wasn't speaking without experience.  And second, he was right.  At some point there's only so much we can do, and that's that hardest thing to adjust to.  I think my dad was trying to encourage us to accept and love my son as he his, not just for who we hope he will be.  Also I think at some level my dad was trying to assure us that it's _not_our_fault.  There's not some magic alternate path we could go down where my son ends up valedictorian of his class with early admittance to Harvard. 

Now your friend may have just wanted to stop hearing about your problems, but maybe she also is trying to help based on something she's been through.

I am sorry about what you and your family are going through.

TootsNYC

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2014, 01:11:10 PM »
Exactly - she didn't read my mind and give me the type of support I was expecting.

And yet, she didn't give me ANY!

I think there are a ton of scripts that could have played out here--even straight, "Oh, what a worrying time, poor you!" (which has become my default response when someone shares a worry--I've stopped trying to give advice or point people toward the bright side; I stick with a flat-out blast of sympathy and affection, and stop right there). And what you got was, "she'll just have to love him as he is," as if you didn't already know that, as if there was any possibility that some other pathway would be chosen.

it was a very "shutting down" type of comment, and reading it here, it sounds almost scoldy. I don't know what her tone is, but I've tried out several different tones, mentally, and they *all* sound dismissive. They all come across as though I'm trying to shut the conversation down, right now.

I think you have every right to be hurt, and maybe since this is a friend of such long standing, you might need to say that to her. Avoid the mention of the word choice--stick with "I felt dismissed, I felt as though you were trying to simply end the conversation. It hurt my feelings, I needed some comfort from you, and it felt like i got a conversation-ending lecture. I'm still bothered by it now, a few days later, so I felt it was important to share--I'd hate for this to fester and create hesitancy between us. I'm not sure where we go from here--I'm not even sure what response I want from you now. Maybe just that when I mention these worries, you'd say, 'Oh, I feel for you, just know that I love you.' or something. And, anyway, I think I'm not going to share much of it with you, because it just didn't go well."

As a friend hearing that, I know I'd say, "I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to hurt you." I might say, "I feel at a loss, your tone made me feel pressured to say something, and I find that so frustrating, because there isn't anything helpful I can say. Except you're right, I can just say, 'I love you, and I feel for you.' "

(I didn't care much about the choice of word from the beginning--at the very start, I felt that your main complaint was the dismissiveness of her words. I don't know if her tone was equally conversation-ending or not.)

Jones

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2014, 01:15:49 PM »
(((Redneck Gravy)))  I'm sorry that you're worried about your dear little grandson.  I'm sure that he is a cutie pie and much loved by everyone who knows him.  He's a lucky little guy to have parents and grandparents eager to support him in any way he needs.

I highly recommend Thomas Sowell's book "Late Talkers".  http://www.amazon.com/Late-Talking-Children-Thomas-Sowell-ebook/dp/B00994UJOA/ref=sr_1_32?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390324917&sr=1-32&keywords=thomas+sowell

In many cases of children who speak late it's because they come from a family with talents in math or music.  It's just how their brains are wired.
Oh my gosh. Thank you for this! I read the brief on Amazon and am totally seeing my DS in it.

Deetee

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2014, 01:26:39 PM »
I'm sorry she didn't give you the support you wanted. But you say she is a good friend so I suggest you try again. Be a little more "I am worried about this". People get weird about being supportive (Right now I have a distant friend who is obviously struggling and I am uncertain how to approach him and let him know I am thinking of him without making him feel he needs to start a conversation)

FWIW, I would never give the script that you wanted. I did once and then 2 years later the kid was diagnosed with autism. I started to think about everyone telling the mom that the kid would be just fine and wondered if that delayed diagnosis and treatment. I promised myself I would never shut down someone's concerns about their kid.

(Well.. never isn't quite right. If someone's kid isn't walking at one. I'm perfectly comfortable saying that is well within the range of normal and it's the kid who is walking at 9 months that is the outlier. Or if someone's son is suddenly aggressive at age 3, I will mention that is very common and the little boys get a nice shot of testosterone right around that time and many parents can find that a little alarming)

Basically, I will share robust facts, I won't dismiss the concerns.