Author Topic: That kinda hurt my feelings...  (Read 11057 times)

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TootsNYC

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2014, 12:46:45 AM »
If she'd said, "No matter what the diagnosis is, I'm sure she'll love him anyway," that might have felt comforting.

But "she'll just have to..." just feels preachy, and that "just" is really dismissive to me.

I think your first statement is incredibly offensive, the 'love him anyway' part makes it sound like that could ever be in doubt, as in OPs daughter will love her son in spite of his possible disability.

To each their own, I guess.

I see your point, but in fact, that's part of what the "just" does as well.

From the OP:

Quote
"well it is what it is, she is just going to have to accept that he's retarded if he is."


--it implies that some other outcome is in fact possible or likely. As if someone would need to be admonished into accepting that her son is retarded.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 12:48:18 AM by TootsNYC »

Owly

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2014, 08:09:53 AM »
What your friend said, would have actually made me feel quite comforted.
Because it would have meant (a) If the situation is the worst case, I can accept it and deal with it. (b) it doesn't require acceptance, and coping mechanisms right now. It is a lot better than " Lots of kids don't talk till 3, why are you worried?", because I feel that would be dismissive of my concerns.

This is how I feel as well.

It's possible that it may also be how OP's friend felt, and she was responding in the way that would have comforted her. If so, I think it's important to take the intent behind the comments into consideration.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #77 on: January 22, 2014, 08:24:01 AM »
(((Redneck Gravy)))  I'm sorry that you're worried about your dear little grandson.  I'm sure that he is a cutie pie and much loved by everyone who knows him.  He's a lucky little guy to have parents and grandparents eager to support him in any way he needs.

I highly recommend Thomas Sowell's book "Late Talkers".  http://www.amazon.com/Late-Talking-Children-Thomas-Sowell-ebook/dp/B00994UJOA/ref=sr_1_32?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1390324917&sr=1-32&keywords=thomas+sowell

In many cases of children who speak late it's because they come from a family with talents in math or music.  It's just how their brains are wired.

My oldest didn't have a great vocabulary as a small child. He talked but he'd often make a sentence out of the few words he did  know.   He's now 12 and while he does still struggle with grammar and making his meaning clear, he is excellent with math. 
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

betty

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #78 on: January 22, 2014, 08:57:18 AM »
I hope the child is just a late bloomer and all is well. But it’s smart of the doctors and family to get things checked out now, early.

What the OP’s friend said was blunt but true: if there is a problem, the grandson will be best served if his parents accept the diagnosis and get him help right away.

I won’t talk about the word choice since others already have, except to add that “developmentally disabled” is used more often these days.

My perspective comes from experience. My nephew is developmentally disabled. My sister suspected something was wrong when he was very young. For her, having someone say, “If it turns out to be something, you’ll deal with it.”* was more supportive than having someone dismiss her worries and the advice of doctors and say, “I’m sure it’s nothing.”

*Even better was someone saying, “I hope it turns out to be nothing. I know it’s scary, but your kid has a great Mom and Dad. If it turns out to be something, you’ll deal with it. What can I do to help?” and offer to research specialists or possible diagnoses, babysit the older kid while the younger went to appointments, etc.

m2kbug

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #79 on: January 22, 2014, 09:09:39 AM »
Mine really struggled with reading and spelling at first, which I think her speech issues played a role.  As a reminder, mine was in speech therapy starting in preschool.   I also found out she has ADHD a couple years ago, and this probably contributed to the problem.  But here she is in her teens and is doing very well with English and writing, reading, spelling, vocabulary.  Math has been a problem, but I think with the ADHD, she has a problem writing things down and going through all those steps.  With the IEP in place for school, she's getting some extra support and is pulling some pretty descent scores.  We still have problems, but she's processing and understanding everything, and you can't complain about that. :)

My daughter was barely understandable when she was 2-3 years old and I was worried.  She was not speaking as clearly as her peers.  I got a lot of "They develop at their own pace" and "It will work out in its own time," etc., and they do develop differently and work at their own pace, but it's good to check in case intervention is needed and can be started early. 

I had a neighbor friend who's child was not speaking clearly, and she put him through testing, and he did not qualify, so his speech issues were apparently more aligned with normal development that should "work itself out."

At 18 months, what can you really recognize?  Some disorders are more clear, which I'm sure the OP is already aware of.  Other problems may not creep up until he's school age.  By then he'll hopefully be talking everyone's ear off.  :)

nrb80

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #80 on: January 22, 2014, 09:25:42 AM »
BG: My grandson was recently referred to a learning disability specialist.  He is only 18 months old so I haven't panicked over the issue. 

He still doesn't say much and what he does say I can't really understand (other than mama).  He points a lot and uses some hand signals.  His hearing has been tested, his motor skills seem fine, he walks, runs & plays like all the other children his age.  It's his vocal ability or lack of that has the pediatrician worried. 

I'm not asking for medical advice here.

When I mentioned it to my best friend and said DD is afraid he is retarded (a word I detest by the way).  BFF said, "well it is what it is, she is just going to have to accept that he's retarded if he is."

 :o    Everyone stop saying retarded!  I expected her to ask what the problem was and say something along the lines of I haven't noticed anything wrong with him or those doctors these days panic over every opportunity to avoid a lawsuit or ANYTHING a little more supportive.   It kind of hurt my feelings a little bit that she was so dismissive.

Am I being overly sensitive or is she lacking in sensitivity?  or both?

It's been a couple of weeks and we usually talk on the phone at least weekly but I haven't called her lately - that phone works two ways.  I don't know if we are both just incredibly busy right now or if she realizes how she sounded but I'm definitely feeling rather cool right now.   

I would find her to be lacking in sensitivity and would feel that her comments should be ignored.  However, she probably thinks she is being helpful - but her words are a bit ham-fisted.  I would say, however, that sharing this sort of intimate detail about your family often invites a response - but people are generally very clueless on how to respond to something as big as this concern.  If you can, take the good intention and ignore the rest, if you can't, ignore the comment.

"Retarded" - aside from being unkind - is an absolutely useless word.  Frankly, so is developmentally delayed or disabled.  It means nothing - specific disabilities or delayed (intellectually disabled, speech delayed, etc) are much more useful. 

I will say this - as the mother of a developmentally delayed not-quite-two year old who was delayed in everything as a result of a stroke in early life, your daughter (and you) will have to develop a thick, thick skin and find the power inside you to fight like you never have before - people say ridiculously cruel and silly things.  Your grandchild and the rest of the world will take their cues from parents and grandparents - and there's nothing "broken" about even the most disabled human being - however, every person should be able to achieve to the best of their ability.  For my daughter - who has brain damage, language processing issues, hearing issues, spasticity, and motor function damage on one side, but who tests as intellectually gifted, despite being 6-12 months delayed - that meant months of daily therapy,and now we are down to a couple times a week.  I cannot tell you how many people - including medical professionals - told me I should "accept" having a disabled child and do nothing.  What a waste for her and the world.

Your daughter is doing all the right things.  You are doing the right things.  If it helps, could she ask her provider for some information about parent support resources?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 09:41:12 AM by nrb80 »

TurtleDove

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #81 on: January 22, 2014, 09:33:57 AM »
Your grandchild and the rest of the world will take their cues from parents and grandparents

I agree with this, but just wanted to point out it was the DD, and then the OP, who used the r-word. The friend merely used the same word the OP said she used and her daughter used. I agree none of them should have used it, but especially not the DD.

At any rate, I think all of us are saying the same thing at the end of the day.  Do what you can to allow the grandson to have his best life possible, but if it turns out he does in fact have additional challenges, well, then he does, and you just deal with it (by getting him therapy or whatever is recommended for whatever he has) but love him just the same. Being delayed in one way or another isn't a shameful thing and I think that is what the friend was saying, not that she was dismissing the OP.

Teenyweeny

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #82 on: January 22, 2014, 10:01:23 AM »
BG: My grandson was recently referred to a learning disability specialist.  He is only 18 months old so I haven't panicked over the issue. 

He still doesn't say much and what he does say I can't really understand (other than mama).  He points a lot and uses some hand signals.  His hearing has been tested, his motor skills seem fine, he walks, runs & plays like all the other children his age.  It's his vocal ability or lack of that has the pediatrician worried. 

I'm not asking for medical advice here.

When I mentioned it to my best friend and said DD is afraid he is retarded (a word I detest by the way).  BFF said, "well it is what it is, she is just going to have to accept that he's retarded if he is."

 :o    Everyone stop saying retarded!  I expected her to ask what the problem was and say something along the lines of I haven't noticed anything wrong with him or those doctors these days panic over every opportunity to avoid a lawsuit or ANYTHING a little more supportive.   It kind of hurt my feelings a little bit that she was so dismissive.

Am I being overly sensitive or is she lacking in sensitivity?  or both?

It's been a couple of weeks and we usually talk on the phone at least weekly but I haven't called her lately - that phone works two ways.  I don't know if we are both just incredibly busy right now or if she realizes how she sounded but I'm definitely feeling rather cool right now.   

She's lacking in sensitivity and her comments should be ignored.  She probably thinks she is being helpful - but she is not. 

"Retarded" - aside from being unkind - is an absolutely useless word.  Frankly, so is developmentally delayed or disabled.  It means nothing - specific disabilities or delayed (intellectually disabled, speech delayed, etc) are much more useful. 

I will say this - as the mother of a developmentally delayed not-quite-two year old who was delayed in everything as a result of a stroke in early life, your daughter (and you) will have to develop a thick, thick skin and find the power inside you to fight like you never have before - people say ridiculously cruel and silly things.  Your grandchild and the rest of the world will take their cues from parents and grandparents - and there's nothing "broken" about even the most disabled human being - however, every person should be able to achieve to the best of their ability.  For my daughter - who has brain damage, language processing issues, hearing issues, spasticity, and motor function damage on one side, but who tests as intellectually gifted, despite being 6-12 months delayed - that meant months of daily therapy,and now we are down to a couple times a week.  I cannot tell you how many people - including medical professionals - told me I should "accept" having a disabled child and do nothing.  What a waste for her and the world.

Your daughter is doing all the right things.  You are doing the right things.  If it helps, could she ask her provider for some information about parent support resources?

Besides which, the NHS guidelines for child development says:

Quote
12-18 months
Takes an interest in words
Your child may start to say words and understand them.
As well as saying between six and 20 recognisable words, children will start to understand many more.

Quote
1.5-2 years

Puts at least two words together

Your child will know a range of single words and talk in short sentences.

By the age of two a child will be able to say a range of single words and many children will be talking in short sentences. If your child is trying to say a word but gets it wrong, say the word properly.
Quote
3-4 years

Talks well in sentences

Your child can chant rhymes and talk clearly enough to be understood.

If your child is already talking, try to use sentences that are a word or two longer than the sentences they use. You can also increase your child's vocabulary by giving them choices such as, ‘Do you want an apple or a banana?’ If your three-year-old is hard to understand mention this to your health visitor.

So, it sounds like he's pretty on target, actually.



TootsNYC

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #83 on: January 22, 2014, 10:22:36 AM »
I hope the child is just a late bloomer and all is well. But it’s smart of the doctors and family to get things checked out now, early.

What the OP’s friend said was blunt but true: if there is a problem, the grandson will be best served if his parents accept the diagnosis and get him help right away.

But it's not very comforting.


Quote

My perspective comes from experience. My nephew is developmentally disabled. My sister suspected something was wrong when he was very young. For her, having someone say, “If it turns out to be something, you’ll deal with it.”* was more supportive than having someone dismiss her worries and the advice of doctors and say, “I’m sure it’s nothing.”

To me, it's the "just have to" that's scoldy and dismissive.

Quote
*Even better was someone saying, “I hope it turns out to be nothing. I know it’s scary, but your kid has a great Mom and Dad. If it turns out to be something, you’ll deal with it. What can I do to help?” and offer to research specialists or possible diagnoses, babysit the older kid while the younger went to appointments, etc.

Julsie

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #84 on: January 22, 2014, 11:46:29 AM »
Quote
...and there's nothing "broken" about even the most disabled human being -

Amen, nrb80.  Best wishes to you and your darling daughter.

Drunken Housewife

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #85 on: January 22, 2014, 12:53:19 PM »
I don't want to single any one out, but the "some kids are just late talkers" is not necessarily a good thing to go around saying.  Some kids have genuine speech problems, and it's not that they are "just late talkers."  If my daughter had been "just a late talker", well, our lives would have been so much easier!  Autistic kids often need pediatric speech therapy.  Kids with lisps and other problems need it. 

In my daughter's case, her inability to make herself understood was causing a naturally merry little kid to become silent and sad at age 3.  Her pediatrician dismissed my concerns, but thankfully a preschool teacher I spoke to echoed them and helped me get my daughter tested.  Putting her in intensive speech therapy (she had speech therapy three times a week that first year) saved her personality.  The first time she was able to say her sister's name, I broke down and wept.  It took years of hard work, but she became relatively normal in speech.  (Incidentally she had some cognitive problems which vanished when she became able to communicate-- which turns out also to be normal. The brain cannot process some things without being able to use language, evidently.  A child who appeared severely subnormal has now become a published author by age 11 and a charming, funny girl with a powerful mind). 

My daughter had a disorder which meant that she had a very limited ability to control the movements of her tongue.  Funnily enough she was an extremely picky eater, and it turns out that those things are linked.  Speech therapy taught her how to move her tongue so she could produce the needed sounds for intelligible speech.

I know other families whose children have been greatly helped by pediatric speech therapy.  Rather than telling people that "Oh, some kids are just late talkers", I think it is much more supportive and helpful to say, "I'm sure your child is going to be fine, but you can take them to be evaluated for speech therapy and that might give you peace of mind." 

/sermon  Sorry to preach, but as you can see, people being dismissive of speech problems -- even if their hearts are in the right place and they mean only to be reassuring -- hit a nerve with me.  Now that pediatric speech therapy has become a developed profession, we can make kids' lives better.  I note that the book "Late Talkers" was published in 1997-- and over the nearly 20 years since then, the field of pediatric speech therapy has evolved.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 12:55:18 PM by Drunken Housewife »
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Julsie

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #86 on: January 22, 2014, 03:43:56 PM »
I note that the book "Late Talkers" was published in 1997-- and over the nearly 20 years since then, the field of pediatric speech therapy has evolved.

I don't know if you're referring to the Thomas Sowell book, but he has a more recent follow-up book called "The Einstein Syndrome".

He writes about a specific subset of children who are late talkers.  I agree with you completely that it's imperative to  address the concerns earlier, rather than later.  Try not to make any assumptions and begin with a thorough hearing check.

In our case speech therapy was a waste of time and an enormous stress and expense.  I'm truly glad, though, that it helps other children in amazing ways.

Tea Drinker

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2014, 04:09:29 PM »
BG: My grandson was recently referred to a learning disability specialist.  He is only 18 months old so I haven't panicked over the issue. 

He still doesn't say much and what he does say I can't really understand (other than mama).  He points a lot and uses some hand signals.  His hearing has been tested, his motor skills seem fine, he walks, runs & plays like all the other children his age.  It's his vocal ability or lack of that has the pediatrician worried. 

I'm not asking for medical advice here.

When I mentioned it to my best friend and said DD is afraid he is retarded (a word I detest by the way).  BFF said, "well it is what it is, she is just going to have to accept that he's retarded if he is."

 :o    Everyone stop saying retarded!  I expected her to ask what the problem was and say something along the lines of I haven't noticed anything wrong with him or those doctors these days panic over every opportunity to avoid a lawsuit or ANYTHING a little more supportive.   It kind of hurt my feelings a little bit that she was so dismissive.

Am I being overly sensitive or is she lacking in sensitivity?  or both?

It's been a couple of weeks and we usually talk on the phone at least weekly but I haven't called her lately - that phone works two ways.  I don't know if we are both just incredibly busy right now or if she realizes how she sounded but I'm definitely feeling rather cool right now.   

I would find her to be lacking in sensitivity and would feel that her comments should be ignored.  However, she probably thinks she is being helpful - but her words are a bit ham-fisted.  I would say, however, that sharing this sort of intimate detail about your family often invites a response - but people are generally very clueless on how to respond to something as big as this concern.  If you can, take the good intention and ignore the rest, if you can't, ignore the comment.

"Retarded" - aside from being unkind - is an absolutely useless word.  Frankly, so is developmentally delayed or disabled.  It means nothing - specific disabilities or delayed (intellectually disabled, speech delayed, etc) are much more useful. 

I will say this - as the mother of a developmentally delayed not-quite-two year old who was delayed in everything as a result of a stroke in early life, your daughter (and you) will have to develop a thick, thick skin and find the power inside you to fight like you never have before - people say ridiculously cruel and silly things.  Your grandchild and the rest of the world will take their cues from parents and grandparents - and there's nothing "broken" about even the most disabled human being - however, every person should be able to achieve to the best of their ability.  For my daughter - who has brain damage, language processing issues, hearing issues, spasticity, and motor function damage on one side, but who tests as intellectually gifted, despite being 6-12 months delayed - that meant months of daily therapy,and now we are down to a couple times a week.  I cannot tell you how many people - including medical professionals - told me I should "accept" having a disabled child and do nothing.  What a waste for her and the world.

Your daughter is doing all the right things.  You are doing the right things.  If it helps, could she ask her provider for some information about parent support resources?

"Accepting" can also mean paying attention to the child, and seeing what they need, and helping them get it, rather than insisting "there's nothing wrong with my child." I *hope* that's what OP's friend meant--that her sister will need to accept that her child has these specific issues, and raise *that* child as best she can, not ignore the child's actual needs because they don't match some image of Our Perfect Baby.

I am very sorry that you had to deal with medical professionals who didn't want to help because they couldn't entirely "fix" your daughter. "We can't make her/him exactly normal, so why do anything?" is as damaging as "there's nothing wrong with this child, just be patient" when the child has actual issues. She's lucky to have you as a parent.
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CakeEater

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2014, 05:58:40 PM »
I don't want to single any one out, but the "some kids are just late talkers" is not necessarily a good thing to go around saying.  Some kids have genuine speech problems, and it's not that they are "just late talkers."  If my daughter had been "just a late talker", well, our lives would have been so much easier!  Autistic kids often need pediatric speech therapy.  Kids with lisps and other problems need it. 

In my daughter's case, her inability to make herself understood was causing a naturally merry little kid to become silent and sad at age 3.  Her pediatrician dismissed my concerns, but thankfully a preschool teacher I spoke to echoed them and helped me get my daughter tested.  Putting her in intensive speech therapy (she had speech therapy three times a week that first year) saved her personality.  The first time she was able to say her sister's name, I broke down and wept.  It took years of hard work, but she became relatively normal in speech.  (Incidentally she had some cognitive problems which vanished when she became able to communicate-- which turns out also to be normal. The brain cannot process some things without being able to use language, evidently.  A child who appeared severely subnormal has now become a published author by age 11 and a charming, funny girl with a powerful mind). 

My daughter had a disorder which meant that she had a very limited ability to control the movements of her tongue.  Funnily enough she was an extremely picky eater, and it turns out that those things are linked.  Speech therapy taught her how to move her tongue so she could produce the needed sounds for intelligible speech.

I know other families whose children have been greatly helped by pediatric speech therapy.  Rather than telling people that "Oh, some kids are just late talkers", I think it is much more supportive and helpful to say, "I'm sure your child is going to be fine, but you can take them to be evaluated for speech therapy and that might give you peace of mind." 

/sermon  Sorry to preach, but as you can see, people being dismissive of speech problems -- even if their hearts are in the right place and they mean only to be reassuring -- hit a nerve with me.  Now that pediatric speech therapy has become a developed profession, we can make kids' lives better.  I note that the book "Late Talkers" was published in 1997-- and over the nearly 20 years since then, the field of pediatric speech therapy has evolved.

Yes, yes, and a bit more yes.

People telling me my DD was fine, and she would probably just start talking weren't do me a kindness. They were basically telling me that I was being over-protective, or attention seeking. And that I wasn't seeing the things I was, in fact, seeing.

It's really best not to assure people that their kids are fine, when you have absolutely no knowledge of either the child, or the issue, to base that statement on.


GlitterIsMyDrug

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Re: That kinda hurt my feelings...
« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2014, 06:22:46 PM »
The stance I always take when talking to parents whose children might have some possible problem with any developmental issues is that it's best not to panic and assume the worst. It is best, however, to start investigating. Seek specialists, start therapies and treatments early. If nothing is wrong, no damage is done. If something is wrong, we're on a good path already. I also strongly encourage families to seek out counseling to help them cope with their emotions, especially if there are other children in the house who might not be able to understand what's going on.