Author Topic: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?  (Read 8323 times)

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petal

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2014, 03:07:38 AM »
see, that doesnt make sense to me. their real wedding was the legal one not the church one.  thats just a celebration after the fact.

i sometimes feel that too much emphasis is put on the "big white wedding" day  and people are forgetting that the marriage not the day is the point of it all.

Nemesis

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2014, 03:57:04 AM »
Maybe it is a cultural thing, but where I come from, a registration of marriage is not the same as a wedding. The couple is not recognised as a couple by family and friends until the actual wedding takes place. For us, wedding includes the traditional tea ceremony. And as a Catholic, it refers to a church ceremony.

It is common for the ROM to only include witnesses and a small dinner hosted by the couple. No gifts are given for an ROM.

If a couple wishes to forego the wedding ceremony, they inform friends and family of their elopement.

No gifts will be given until the wedding is announced.


Flibbertigibbet

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2014, 03:59:37 AM »
In response to Petal - legally the legal wedding was the 'real' one, but for many people (and I am not religious myself), a church or other religious ceremony is the 'real' one from a spiritual point of view. Usually both happen at the same time - but where they dont, as here, I suppose it depends on which one you put more weight in terms of deciding which is 'real' for you.

In this situation, I'd send a housewarming/small congratulations gift now, and then a 'wedding' present at the later celebration. BIL and his new wife are not trying to have multiple celebrations where other people are expected to chip in or buy gifts and therefore I would accept whatever they are calling the wedding as the wedding. YMMV.

Edited to add - for 'spiritual or religious' subsitute any other important signifier to the couple
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:01:18 AM by Flibbertigibbet »

MariaE

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2014, 04:09:00 AM »
Nemesis and Flibbertigibbit put it perfectly.

A purely legal wedding wouldn't be the "real" wedding for me. I'm deeply religious, so I wouldn't consider myself married until I'd had the church wedding.

Petal, to me the real wedding is the church ceremony. The legal wedding is just paperwork before the fact.
 
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Teenyweeny

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2014, 04:22:18 AM »
Similarly,  a purely legal wedding wouldn't be the real one for me,  and I'm not religious at all! For me,  the real wedding is the one in which your family and friends gather together to celebrate your love, which is why I wouldn't re-wedding when equal marriage comes in in the UK,  though I will have a party.



Library Dragon

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2014, 04:58:07 AM »
Similarly,  a purely legal wedding wouldn't be the real one for me,  and I'm not religious at all! For me,  the real wedding is the one in which your family and friends gather together to celebrate your love, which is why I wouldn't re-wedding when equal marriage comes in in the UK,  though I will have a party.

A good analogy. It's not about the state defined contract as much as the couple's commitment/covenantal relationship.  That can happen in front of a judge, the mayor, or clerk, but the deciding party is the couple. When DH conducts weddings he stresses that he's not marrying them. The B&G are marrying each other and he is the presiding minister.

Circling back around--LadyL's question boils down to the couple in question and what they see as the start of their marriage.

As in Teenyweeny's case it's possible to have a party that is a celebration of that commitment and the full recognition it deserves. 

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veryfluffy

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2014, 05:24:59 AM »
Can I just ask for those who have a legal wedding followed some days, weeks or months later by the church ceremony which they consider their "real" wedding, do you cohabit in the interim and, if so, do you regard this as "sinful"?

Also, do you accept the social and financial benefits of being married during that time?
   

auntmeegs

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2014, 09:16:14 AM »
Can I just ask for those who have a legal wedding followed some days, weeks or months later by the church ceremony which they consider their "real" wedding, do you cohabit in the interim and, if so, do you regard this as "sinful"?

Also, do you accept the social and financial benefits of being married during that time?

My brother and his wife had a legal wedding so that she could move to our country with him.  Once they moved back here and got settled, they were then married by their pastor and had a big wedding celebration.  They consider the second wedding to be their anniversary and their real wedding date.  And it certainly isn’t anyone’s business to tell them otherwise. 
I don’t see why accepting the social and financial benefits would matter to anyone but the couple. 

MariaE

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2014, 09:20:59 AM »
Can I just ask for those who have a legal wedding followed some days, weeks or months later by the church ceremony which they consider their "real" wedding, do you cohabit in the interim and, if so, do you regard this as "sinful"?

Also, do you accept the social and financial benefits of being married during that time?

My brother and his wife had a legal wedding so that she could move to our country with him.  Once they moved back here and got settled, they were then married by their pastor and had a big wedding celebration.  They consider the second wedding to be their anniversary and their real wedding date.  And it certainly isn’t anyone’s business to tell them otherwise. 
I don’t see why accepting the social and financial benefits would matter to anyone but the couple.

Not to mention that if you are legally married it's a hassle and a half to ask the Government not to grant you the social and financial benefits. I wouldn't even know how to go about that... in fact, I would assume it wasn't possible.
 
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Teenyweeny

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2014, 09:25:46 AM »
I just think it's pretty much the textbook definition of po-facedness to tell somebody else what their wedding is or should be.

If a couple has to get legally married for visa (or other legal/practical) reasons, and then has a ceremony/party/whatever later, and they consider that to be their wedding, I wouldn't give a flying...monkey.

Of course, you can have rude, gift-grabby weddings, but you can have those whatever you do.

I just really object to folks turning their noses up and saying "that's not a wedding, that's <insert 'approved' name here>". If people in love want to celebrate, then it's really nobody else's business what they call that celebration or what the legal status of that celebration is. Turn up and celebrate, or don't.



LadyL

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2014, 10:01:01 AM »
I just really object to folks turning their noses up and saying "that's not a wedding, that's <insert 'approved' name here>". If people in love want to celebrate, then it's really nobody else's business what they call that celebration or what the legal status of that celebration is. Turn up and celebrate, or don't.


I am also in the camp of letting the couple define what/when their wedding, is within reason (i.e. not having multiple big white weddings, etc.). That said, I've seen compelling arguments from same sex couples who are denied the right to legally marry, that couples who enjoy the benefits of marriage (i.e. being legally wed, health insurance, tax breaks, etc.) but don't consider themselves married until they have a big party, are sort of getting the whole thing backwards. For couples who may have celebrated their relationship but not been able to enjoy legal benefits, writing off those much desired legal benefits as "just paperwork" can be seen as minimizing the struggle for marriage equality.

Again that's not a lens through which I see this particular situation, or quickie marriages before deployments, etc. but I do think that not all disagreement on the issue stems from people turning their noses up over outdated etiquette.

Teenyweeny

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2014, 10:07:16 AM »
I just really object to folks turning their noses up and saying "that's not a wedding, that's <insert 'approved' name here>". If people in love want to celebrate, then it's really nobody else's business what they call that celebration or what the legal status of that celebration is. Turn up and celebrate, or don't.


I am also in the camp of letting the couple define what/when their wedding, is within reason (i.e. not having multiple big white weddings, etc.). That said, I've seen compelling arguments from same sex couples who are denied the right to legally marry, that couples who enjoy the benefits of marriage (i.e. being legally wed, health insurance, tax breaks, etc.) but don't consider themselves married until they have a big party, are sort of getting the whole thing backwards. For couples who may have celebrated their relationship but not been able to enjoy legal benefits, writing off those much desired legal benefits as "just paperwork" can be seen as minimizing the struggle for marriage equality.

Again that's not a lens through which I see this particular situation, or quickie marriages before deployments, etc. but I do think that not all disagreement on the issue stems from people turning their noses up over outdated etiquette.

Well, coming at it from a same-sex standpoint, I'd say it's even MORE important to defend your right to decide what your 'wedding' is. As I've spoken about in another thread, although I am married (civil partnership) I won't enjoy the full benefits of equal marriage for about another year. That will be a hugely important thing to me, and there's nothing that makes my blood boil more than anti-equal marriage folks saying "It's just some paperwork, why do you care?"

I sort of think that the idea that my wedding, my marriage, is what I (and my other half) want it to be is very much tied into that. As long as I have the same rights and freedoms as anybody else, let me define for myself what it means to be married, and what a wedding is. /soapbox



lady_disdain

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2014, 10:57:30 AM »
"Just paperwork"? No. Hugely important paperwork that changes your rights and duties? Yes.

I am getting married sometime in February. We will go down to the courthouse and sign papers. We are doing this because it will make our lives easier in several ways and because it will grant us some protections. To us, it doesn't have a lot of emotional meaning. Our commitment was made long before we decided to sign the papers and, yes, we see it as paperwork (considering all the bureaucracy involved, it is hard not to!).

However, we don't impose our views on anyone else. If a couple decides that those papers are emotionally important and want to celebrate, great! If a different couple feels the religious side is more important, I will happily sit through a service and toast them. To other couples, the paperwork represents a struggle for equality and I will happily cheer them on. If it was necessary to go through the paperwork because of military, health, financial or whatever reason, I will celebrate when the couple tells me it is the right time for them.

I only get peeved when a couple wants me to celebrate every single little thing as though it was a milestone. Sorry, if you are celebrating "the day we file our paperwork", then you are celebrating inch marks, not milestone, and that becomes all about you, not about an important event.

z_squared82

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 11:01:29 AM »
I have a friend who got engaged in NYC, moved with her fiancé to California, and then tried to plan a NYC wedding from California. Once she finally figured out that that was just not happening, they flew back into NYC for a weekend, did the legal thing, they and both sets of parents went to dinner, had some photos, and then flew back. We all knew that this was just the legal part and that she still wanted to have her “real” wedding with religious aspects (she’s Catholic, he’s Jewish). None of her friends or other family was even given the option of going to NYC for the legal bit. I sent a card. I’ll give her a wedding gift when she has her wedding. She might be married, but they aren’t called marriage gifts. (Not to mention, I wouldn’t even know what to get for someone who lives in a postage-stamp size apartment. It might be a gift card to their favorite coffee shop.)

gollymolly2

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Re: Already married but 'wedding' is in 8 mos. - when to send gift?
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 11:04:06 AM »
Yes, I basically agree with LadyDisdain.

I think it's up to each couple to decide which part of their marriage (legal ceremony/church ceremony/whatever) is worth celebrating, but under etiquette, you only get to have one wedding.

So if a couple takes care of legal paperwork, doesn't throw a party or make a big deal to celebrate that, and a few months later has a big wedding, I think thats totally etiquette-ly reasonable.

If, on the other hand, you have situations where people throw small parties for one part of their marriage (e.g. The legal ceremony) and decide later that they want a big white wedding, I lean more towards "bummer, but you already had a wedding." if people want to have big parties later to celebrate an anniversary or whatever, fantastic, but it shouldn't be a wedding.

So in this couple's case, I'd have no problem happily attending their wedding, and I'd send the gift around the time of the wedding itself.