Author Topic: Gone 27  (Read 6164 times)

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Mergatroyd

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
Interesting.. This makes me wonder about the travel agents in the areas I've been living for most of my life. They must really push the group discount and perks to the bride and groom. My BIL was told if they all booked together, he and his new wife would get the honeymoon suite one night for free. I don't think enough people signed up though, so they didn't.  And the invitation from my cousin (to my parents) had a number to call for the travel agent they used, the group booking registration number, and the register by date, right on the card.
Was that in fact rude of them to do so?
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I think the bolded is rude to ever tell people. It turns the B&G into salesmen with a commission--which is not a good place to be with their guests.
   It may be the case, but it would be smarter to never, ever let anybody find out about it.

I don't think the other stuff is necessarily rude--not any more rude than saying, "here's a hotel where we've reserved a block of rooms for a slightly better rate, and so that you can all be staying in the same place."

I was going to write that they only told us this a while after we had sent our regrets, but I actually have no idea what they were telling everybody else. And yes, I did think that it was something they shouldn't be telling anyone.

sparksals

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2014, 03:51:26 PM »
Interesting.. This makes me wonder about the travel agents in the areas I've been living for most of my life. They must really push the group discount and perks to the bride and groom. My BIL was told if they all booked together, he and his new wife would get the honeymoon suite one night for free. I don't think enough people signed up though, so they didn't.  And the invitation from my cousin (to my parents) had a number to call for the travel agent they used, the group booking registration number, and the register by date, right on the card.
Was that in fact rude of them to do so?
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I don't think it is ride at all.  If they take the time to do a group thing that saves ppl money, nothing wrong with that.   

I think if ppl live in different areas then it is hard to enforce the travel together thing.  I grew up in Calgary and now live in the US.   It would be impossible to have everyone travel together so let bc we all live across the continent. 

Booking a group rate at the hotel is also fine but I shouldn't be expected to stay the entire week I'd I can't or don't have the holiday time.  In my experience people are arriving different times and days. 

sparksals

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2014, 03:53:11 PM »
Adding...I agree it is rude to try to get people to book to get the bride and groom an upgrade.  People are spending enough that they shouldn't have that additional pressure, so to speak.

Ceallach

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2014, 02:33:53 AM »
The question is, should she have known sooner based on the information that had been provided?    I'd be furious if I'd booked and planned the trip and then found out from somebody else that the kids weren't actually invited to the wedding.    So hard to tell whether she's a SS or whether the couple planned and communicated their event poorly to guests.   

Assuming Aunt received an invitation addressed to HER and not the children, and RSVPed for herself and not the children, how can you say she didn't know kids weren't allowed?  Given the bride and groom's attempts to inform guests as to the child policy, I can only assume that an RSVP from aunt including the children would have prompted a phone call or conversation.

I can't say that, nor did I say that.   I am hypothesizing some of the scenarios that might have occurred to cause this situation.  It may be the aunt is a SS or terribly disorganised, or it may be that the couple weren't clear enough in their invitation.  I don't know, I wasn't involved.
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Ceallach

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2014, 02:45:40 AM »
Most destination weddings are a week long trip, no?

No, actually--I've never heard of one that was a full week for the guests. A weekend, maybe a long weekend. That's the most I've ever heard of (and I've heard of a lot of destination weddings).

Almost every invitation or tentative schedule I ever saw (and I saw plenty of them in my old job) was Friday night, Saturday, Sunday.

It probably depends a lot on how far away the destination is, and the travel nature of the attendees.  The last one I went to was in a tropical destination, and nearly all of the guests booked their own accommodation separately at nearby rental houses, hotels etc.    We stayed 10 days, most were there at least 1 week, and there was only 1 couple who flew in for just 4 days I think due to work commitments.    Basically it was a giant extended family vacation for the whole extended family!   (Which is what the couple wanted, so that's great).   I don't think we can make any assumptions about the duration or what's standard.

What is definite though is destination weddings nearly always require extra money/time on the part of guests, so it's important they have all of the details to make their decisions around that.

I wouldn't consider the whole week to be "the destination wedding." The people who came for 4 days were there for the wedding. The rest of you rounded up--by your own admission. That's not the wedding. That's the family vacation you decided to take since you were going there for the wedding.

The couple's official invitation, I would bet, only mentioned the wedding and maybe the events surrounding it. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

Guests are always free to come early, stay later, etc. The couple might even encourage it. But in my opinion, that's "the family vacation connected to the wedding," not "the wedding itself."

And you may have had that experience, but that's one. I've seen invitations for many destination weddings, and they are generally a weekend only. Of course there are always outliers.
   But Mergatroyd said "most." And most are a weekend, not a full week.

Your post implied that a weekend is standard length for a destination wedding and stated that you'd never heard of anything other than that.  I was merely saying that in my experience destination weddings are actually usually much longer events, and gave that most recent one as an example.    Yes it is only "one" example and I can give you several more if you require evidence but I don't think it's important.   And no, the accommodation booked separately thing isn't particularly relevant, group booking ones I've been involved in have been longer also.

As I said, it probably depends on the destination and other factors.   Bear in mind that NZ is a bit more isolated so when we go on a destination wedding it's often a substantial overseas trip!   I'm not doubting that it's different where you are or suggesting that any of the "many" invitations you have seen are not real.   We simply have had different experiences, you are sharing yours, I am sharing mine. 
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Runningstar

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2014, 07:01:29 AM »
Something was surely going on in that Aunt's perspective.  Maybe the invitations had a note inside about the plans for the children's babysitting, but the aunt's invitation was missing it.   Or, the Aunt assumed (wrongly) that since older cousins were invited to the wedding, her child would also be invited.   Could be anything, but I'm betting that the Aunt just assumed that her child was included for some reason.

sparksals

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2014, 01:49:14 PM »
Something was surely going on in that Aunt's perspective.  Maybe the invitations had a note inside about the plans for the children's babysitting, but the aunt's invitation was missing it.   Or, the Aunt assumed (wrongly) that since older cousins were invited to the wedding, her child would also be invited.   Could be anything, but I'm betting that the Aunt just assumed that her child was included for some reason.


But then how does that explain the HC not knowing the aunt wanted the kids there by the RSVP response?  That would have twigged the HC there was a problem.


Runningstar

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2014, 05:50:57 AM »
Something was surely going on in that Aunt's perspective.  Maybe the invitations had a note inside about the plans for the children's babysitting, but the aunt's invitation was missing it.   Or, the Aunt assumed (wrongly) that since older cousins were invited to the wedding, her child would also be invited.   Could be anything, but I'm betting that the Aunt just assumed that her child was included for some reason.


But then how does that explain the HC not knowing the aunt wanted the kids there by the RSVP response?  That would have twigged the HC there was a problem.
It makes no sense at all, and to have brought her mother would seem like she already had a babysitter built right in.  The only way to know would be to ask - and I don't think that would be possible to do without causing drama.  It would be very interesting to know what in the world was the issue/reason to do such a thing.     

Peregrine

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2014, 11:40:38 AM »
To give the aunt the biggest benefit of the doubt, I could see a situation where she may have gotten really excited about the invite and made the reservations and put down deposits before really realizing that children weren't going to be invited to the ceremony.  Then getting stuck with the consequences.

Or even making the reservations way in advance and there being some sort of material change in how she felt about leaving her kids in the care of a kids club in a foreign country.  In this particular situation I don't know why her mom couldn't watch the kids, but sometimes when you have small kids, things can change from day to day and it's just not possible to leave them.

If I had been invited to such a wedding with no option but to leave my kids at a babysitting service in a foreign country I would not go to the wedding at all....If I had found out the happy couples expectation after putting down deposits or making travel arrangements, I would have been furious and it would significantly affect how I felt about the couple.  I don't find it out of the realm of reason for a couple to have been planning a destination wedding, and giving close family members a heads up so they can start making arrangements well before official wedding invitations go out, then deciding that they really would prefer kids not be at the ceremony, thereby leaving those who have already made reservations in a real pickle.

In this particular situation, I think it would have been much better for the happy couple to make explicitly clear either on the invitations or before those even went out that children weren't going to be invited to the ceremony and for potential guests to take that into consideration when making their decision to attend or not.  This is not a time for people to rely on guests understanding the traditional rule of name not on the envelope your not invited.

Peregrine

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2014, 12:51:31 PM »
To give the aunt the biggest benefit of the doubt, I could see a situation where she may have gotten really excited about the invite and made the reservations and put down deposits before really realizing that children weren't going to be invited to the ceremony.  Then getting stuck with the consequences.

Or even making the reservations way in advance and there being some sort of material change in how she felt about leaving her kids in the care of a kids club in a foreign country.  In this particular situation I don't know why her mom couldn't watch the kids, but sometimes when you have small kids, things can change from day to day and it's just not possible to leave them.

If I had been invited to such a wedding with no option but to leave my kids at a babysitting service in a foreign country I would not go to the wedding at all....If I had found out the happy couples expectation after putting down deposits or making travel arrangements, I would have been furious and it would significantly affect how I felt about the couple. I don't find it out of the realm of reason for a couple to have been planning a destination wedding, and giving close family members a heads up so they can start making arrangements well before official wedding invitations go out, then deciding that they really would prefer kids not be at the ceremony, thereby leaving those who have already made reservations in a real pickle.

In this particular situation, I think it would have been much better for the happy couple to make explicitly clear either on the invitations or before those even went out that children weren't going to be invited to the ceremony and for potential guests to take that into consideration when making their decision to attend or not.  This is not a time for people to rely on guests understanding the traditional rule of name not on the envelope your not invited.

Why would you be furious with the HC? Why blame them for your mistake? It is rude to state on a invitation that certain people are not invited to an event. It is also rude to tell people that only the people listed on the invitation are invited, as it implies that they need to be schooled in basic manners. It is not the HC's responsibility to micromanage their guests to that extent. Getting upset at the HC for (general) your mistake shows a certain lack of maturity as it demonstrates an unwillingness to take responsibility for yourself. This is not a bait and switch situation. The HC have been consistent throughout.

This is purely my own opinion, of course, but if (a big if) things shook out in my above scenario where a "pre-invite or save the date" situation happened and travel arrangements were made for a whole family....only to have the actual formal invitation materially changed, I would consider that a bait and switch.  As I said above, this is giving the aunt the biggest benefit of the doubt that she made arrangements before knowing that her kids weren't invited I can see why things may have shaken out like they did.

While I completely realize that in most situations it is completely not desirable or appropriate to put no children on the invitation....I do feel like in the case of a destination resort wedding where all the guests are going to be making significant outlays of time/money/vacation time etc. that you need to be crystal clear on what your parameters are going to be.  As I said above, if the choice was leaving my kids at a babysitting service or not going, I would not be going.  But I (personally) would not be making reservations without making darn sure of what the happy couple wanted in the first place. 

Perhaps, its the culture of weddings in my family....all generations are included and expected to be there, and you move heaven and earth to get there.  I don't have a large family, and only 4 cousins.   Those of us who married have all had very small family weddings (with a cake and punch reception) in our hometowns.  Destination weddings are so completely out of the norm for my family, that I don't know how they would be handled. 



Sharnita

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2014, 11:59:09 AM »
I am still baffled as to why anyone would think a 6 year old boy would want to attend a wedding ceremony. Well, maybe one out of curiosity, but after that, it would seem to be torture. So, why would the aunt make the poor kid go when there was all of this neat stuff going on with other kids? We don't know how old the second boy is.

I personally don't like the ceremony except for my own children's, and I made ours as short as possible. (Eighteen guests, five minute sermon about being kind and nurturing each other and keeping God on our lives, the magic words, and we were out of there.)

The kid would probably prefer dinner with his new friends, and the dancing afterwards is kid-friendly, so that's fun, but they were invited.

That makes me think the aunt was doubly rude.

There are plenty of 6 year old boys who would.  There are plenty who wouldn't. Age doesn't rule it out. Gender doesn't rule it out. Making sweeping assumptions is generally going to lead to erroneous conclusions.

Most of the kids I grew up with were used to regular mass or church service  every Sunday plus special services on holidays. They would not have been bothered by a wedding and most would have enjoyed a special service like that. Not all but but most. A lot of them also would have enjoyed sitting with the adults and eating dinner with them. Not all but a lot. It is entirely possible the 6 year old in this situation would have enjoyed the ceremony and the dinner.
 
Now, if he wasn't invited and it was made clear his mother should have accepted graciously and attended herself. If there was confusion, she should have been subtle about her absence. Either way, the big production was out of line. I just find it incredibly presumptuous to make those kinds of generalizations about how a kid "must" think/feel.

Ceallach

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Re: "Attending" On Her Own Terms
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2014, 07:50:57 PM »
I am still baffled as to why anyone would think a 6 year old boy would want to attend a wedding ceremony. Well, maybe one out of curiosity, but after that, it would seem to be torture. So, why would the aunt make the poor kid go when there was all of this neat stuff going on with other kids? We don't know how old the second boy is.

I personally don't like the ceremony except for my own children's, and I made ours as short as possible. (Eighteen guests, five minute sermon about being kind and nurturing each other and keeping God on our lives, the magic words, and we were out of there.)

The kid would probably prefer dinner with his new friends, and the dancing afterwards is kid-friendly, so that's fun, but they were invited.

That makes me think the aunt was doubly rude.

There are plenty of 6 year old boys who would.  There are plenty who wouldn't. Age doesn't rule it out. Gender doesn't rule it out. Making sweeping assumptions is generally going to lead to erroneous conclusions.

Most of the kids I grew up with were used to regular mass or church service  every Sunday plus special services on holidays. They would not have been bothered by a wedding and most would have enjoyed a special service like that. Not all but but most. A lot of them also would have enjoyed sitting with the adults and eating dinner with them. Not all but a lot. It is entirely possible the 6 year old in this situation would have enjoyed the ceremony and the dinner.
 
Now, if he wasn't invited and it was made clear his mother should have accepted graciously and attended herself. If there was confusion, she should have been subtle about her absence. Either way, the big production was out of line. I just find it incredibly presumptuous to make those kinds of generalizations about how a kid "must" think/feel.

I agree, I also know plenty of kids who would enjoy it, and many who are used to sitting through long church services compared to which a wedding ceremony is nothing.     

It's not really relevant to the etiquette question at the end of the day - hosts invite who they want to have present, they shouldn't make assumptions about who would or wouldn't like to attend.   Nor should guests make assumptions about who is or isn't invited.
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